On a long enough time horizon is Med School Admission Guaranteed ? Hypothetical Scenario I made up

[2026PreMed]

Lets say for the sake of hypothetical arugement we have a student.

Said student is NOT:
- a criminal with multiple felonies/DUIs
- foriegn student from outside the US
- someone with instances of cheating on their academic record

Lets say this student is not mentally deficient in any way and can learn all the basic science and math courses required for the MCAT/College Coursework/PostBacc/SMP/

Lets say this studnet has involved him/herself with good extracurriculars: shadowing/research/clinical volunteer/job/Non-Clinical work in the community/LORs/the whole works.

If said studnet were to finish college with an average GPA around 3.0 and continue coursework to raise gpa while remaining commited to the extracurriculars mentioned above:

Would the student get into ANY American medical school on a long enough time horizon if he/she were to apply every single year for decades on end ?

Given that an individual has 7 tries to take the MCAT in one lifetime and the time to study for said exam is theoretically limitless (except for the constraint of a human life), then the student would HAVE to get a greater than 90 percentile score eventually just by virtue of having taken the test so many times in practice.

If the studnet were to theoretically continue education to raise gpa so much until he/she obtained a Masters/PHD would this not only further help for med school admissions ?

Therefore if we take all of the above at face value then surely we can make the statement:

"On a long enough time horizon the student above will be admitted into a united states medical college"

Curious to hear everyones thoughts.

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[wysdoc]

Lets say for the sake of hypothetical arugement we have a student.

Said student is NOT:
- a criminal with multiple felonies/DUIs
- foriegn student from outside the US
- someone with instances of cheating on their academic record

Lets say this student is not mentally deficient in any way and can learn all the basic science and math courses required for the MCAT/College Coursework/PostBacc/SMP/

Lets say this studnet has involved him/herself with good extracurriculars: shadowing/research/clinical volunteer/job/Non-Clinical work in the community/LORs/the whole works.

If said studnet were to finish college with an average GPA around 3.0 and continue coursework to raise gpa while remaining commited to the extracurriculars mentioned above:

Would the student get into ANY American medical school on a long enough time horizon if he/she were to apply every single year for decades on end ?

Given that an individual has 7 tries to take the MCAT in one lifetime and the time to study for said exam is theoretically limitless (except for the constraint of a human life), then the student would HAVE to get a greater than 90 percentile score eventually just by virtue of having taken the test so many times in practice.

If the studnet were to theoretically continue education to raise gpa so much until he/she obtained a Masters/PHD would this not only further help for med school admissions ?

Therefore if we take all of the above at face value then surely we can make the statement:

"On a long enough time horizon the student above will be admitted into a united states medical college"

Curious to hear everyones thoughts.

No.

 

[2026PreMed]

No.

What reasons would be left as to why a student like the one above wouldnt be accepted ?

 

[wysdoc]

"No." is a complete sentence, but:

Taking more classes after graduation does not raise a 3.0 GPA
A GPA of 3.0 will be adequate for some DO schools but not for MD schools
An applicant who has applied more than 3 times without success is unlikely to be considered again by most schools (suggesting something is lacking in their academic or personal qualifications).

Work hard and prepare yourself as best you can for a first application cycle, leave aside the hypothetical scenarios.

 

[LizzyM]

Agree with above, any coursework after college is considered separately from undergrad GPA. An undergrad GPA of 3.0 is quite low for medical school. Combined with the need to retake the MCAT (in other words, scoring relatively poorly on the first try) would be considered confirmatory evidence that this applicant doesn't have "the right stuff" to succeed in medical school. As one becomes further and further removed from undergrad and is not a career changer, the questions about the applicant's suitability for medical school increase -- if the applicant were any good, they'd have been admitted by now so the reapplication is considered evidence that somehow this applicant is deficient.

 

[2026PreMed]

"No." is a complete sentence, but:

Taking more classes after graduation does not raise a 3.0 GPA
A GPA of 3.0 will be adequate for some DO schools but not for MD schools
An applicant who has applied more than 3 times without success is unlikely to be considered again by most schools (suggesting something is lacking in their academic or personal qualifications).

Work hard and prepare yourself as best you can for a first application cycle, leave aside the hypothetical scenarios.

Hello I am sorry if I was not clear enough in the hypothetical scenario.

When I said raise the 3.0 gpa I was refering to Special Masters Programs (SMPs) and Post Baccalaureate (PostBacc) programs.

The purpose of these programs is not to directly raise the undergrad gpa, but rather to showcase increased academic abilitites relative to the undergraduate gpa which will affect the perception of the students academic performance as a whole. They are normally offered at most schools and the SMPs are offered at certain places that even work with med schools and can give you things like guaranteed interviews if you have a certain gpa in the program.

For example a studnt might have a 3.0 in their undergraduate gpa but a 3.8 in the postacc/smp gpa.

Also I was not aware that if you apply 3 times your chances are pretty much done. My stress is level 100 now.

I cant believe this whole process is so hard 😢

 

[2026PreMed]

Agree with above, any coursework after college is considered separately from undergrad GPA. An undergrad GPA of 3.0 is quite low for medical school. Combined with the need to retake the MCAT (in other words, scoring relatively poorly on the first try) would be considered confirmatory evidence that this applicant doesn't have "the right stuff" to succeed in medical school. As one becomes further and further removed from undergrad and is not a career changer, the questions about the applicant's suitability for medical school increase -- if the applicant were any good, they'd have been admitted by now so the reapplication is considered evidence that somehow this applicant is deficient.

How much would you say killer performance in a post bacc program or SMP moves the needle ?

Also schools can see your previous MCAT attemps ??

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, schools see all MCAT attempts, even those scores that have since expired (for being old).

A post-bac was originally meant for someone who did not take all the pre-reqs (or even any of them) as an undergrad and is doing it after the bachelor's degree (e.g. music performance major changing careers after working as a professional musician). Some people will use a post-bac to repeat courses that they did not do well in the first time (C+ or lower), or to take upper level courses if they took only the minimum of science courses and now wish to boost their knowledge of the natural sciences and demonstrate competency in learning natural science material.

A Special masters program is meant for someone who did the pre-reqs and came away with a sub-par academic record and now wants to demonstrate that they can do well in a master's degree program covering material typically covered in the first year or two of medical school -- in some ways it could be considered an audition for medical school. If one does well, it is evidence that one can handle the academic rigors and it can greatly increase -- but not guarantee -- the likelihood of being admitted to medical school. Typically, one would be admitted immediately after finishing, or after a gap year at the most. Not being admitted right out of the SMP, or after one gap year, would be a huge red flag, I think, and be evidence of GAME OVER.

 

[Goro]

Lets say for the sake of hypothetical arugement we have a student.

Said student is NOT:
- a criminal with multiple felonies/DUIs
- foriegn student from outside the US
- someone with instances of cheating on their academic record

Lets say this student is not mentally deficient in any way and can learn all the basic science and math courses required for the MCAT/College Coursework/PostBacc/SMP/

Lets say this studnet has involved him/herself with good extracurriculars: shadowing/research/clinical volunteer/job/Non-Clinical work in the community/LORs/the whole works.

If said studnet were to finish college with an average GPA around 3.0 and continue coursework to raise gpa while remaining commited to the extracurriculars mentioned above:

Would the student get into ANY American medical school on a long enough time horizon if he/she were to apply every single year for decades on end ?

Given that an individual has 7 tries to take the MCAT in one lifetime and the time to study for said exam is theoretically limitless (except for the constraint of a human life), then the student would HAVE to get a greater than 90 percentile score eventually just by virtue of having taken the test so many times in practice.

If the studnet were to theoretically continue education to raise gpa so much until he/she obtained a Masters/PHD would this not only further help for med school admissions ?

Therefore if we take all of the above at face value then surely we can make the statement:

"On a long enough time horizon the student above will be admitted into a united states medical college"

Curious to hear everyones thoughts.

Nothing in this process is guaranteed.

Acceptances are 100% on the applicant.

 

[Goro]

How much would you say killer performance in a post bacc program or SMP moves the needle ?

Also schools can see your previous MCAT attemps ??

Read my post on reinvention for premeds.

BTW, people do plateau on multiple MCAT exams, and many schools will average scores.

 

[LizzyM]

Nothing in this process is guaranteed.

Acceptances are 100% on the applicant.

It is on the applicant but at some point, an applicant who has been unsuccessful after 4 or 5 cycles has to come around to the realization that admission to medical school is not going to happen. Saying, well, if I had 15 changes and apply every year until I'm 37, I'll eventually get in -- and after all, people that age do get admitted is to be hopelessly unrealistic.

There is a reason I say, "do it right, do it once". Don't take the MCAT until you have taken enough practice tests to optimize your score. Don't apply the first time until your application is the best it can be even if that means taking a SMP before applying.

 

[polymerization]

What an interesting thought experiment, though I'd argue it's more existential than procedural—thus, the answer is more emotional than practical.

If your question is whether or not it is physically possible to execute academic repair and gain entry to medical school, the answer is yes. If your question is whether doing everything possible simultaneously without rhyme or reason will improve your chances, probably not.

I still believe this process still aspires toward fairness...and I think the people you will meet genuinely will want to see you succeed. That said, there are minimum barriers to entry that are justifiable on the basis of patient safety. It's not fair to admit someone to a school where they will pull a life-ruining amount of money in loans and then just not have the cognitive capacity to make it through.

Goro really has had great advice about this over the years. His reinvention post is like mythical pre-med lore, and I've used it in my own plan toward academic repair (pulling myself up to a 3.5 and change from a 3.0 over two years). Will more As really help me, now that I'm ~60 credits in the hole? Not really, at least not in terms of math or narrative. Continuing to get more education blindly is pointless...as it would be for anyone else who has already shown academic growth.

Your hypothetical starts to crumble when I think about what must happen in order for you to be rejected every year. For you to be rejected and still attend a Master's program, graduate, attend a PhD program, graduate, and continue to fail in your applications throughout the years, there will necessarily be cycles where you're applying into multiple programs at once, which I hear programs don't love.

I totally get it. I'm really interested in medicine from a lot of different angles. But I can't be "Polymerization, MD, DMD, JD, MPH, MPP, PharmD, PhD," and I think it's pretty unrealistic to set off on multiple long-range, long-term, high-commitment goals at once. Consider that, even if someone did have all of those degrees, licensure and explicit job role on your job offer will require you to do one specific job... so even if your intellectual interest is convergent, that doesn't necessarily mean that the scope of your role would be.

I agree with everyone else that it is possible, but not by the shotgun approach. You'll have to be strategic, set attainable goals, and, in my opinion, be willing to criticize yourself honestly (and liberally). If you have a sense of self-esteem by the end of this process, I like to imagine you're doing it wrong (I'm only half-joking 🙂).

 

[LunaOri]

A better scenario for the hypothetical 3.0 applicant is to work for a couple of years to get clinical experience and volunteer hours, then either do an SMP or a DIY postbacc and get a 4.0. Oh, and take the MCAT once (or at most twice) and get a decent score. Still no guarantees, but a good chance.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You can play the lottery every day for the rest of your life and still not win.

You can't put a similar amount of effort into "getting into medical school." You won't have infinite number of chances to pass your boards or licensure exams.

If your goal is to be a doctor, at some point, you will cross the line where you will lose money in immediate costs and lost opportunities where it won't be worth it.

If you want it, you need to be honest with yourself. Not all of us can be a doctor.

 

[2026PreMed]

Read my post on reinvention for premeds.

BTW, people do plateau on multiple MCAT exams, and many schools will average scores.

I have it sticked on my computer. Extremely helpful

I know this may be a big ask but do you mind if I dm you on this forum and ask quesitons related to my situation ? You seem to know the most about this process evidenced by the previous answers youve provided on my posts.

 

[Goro]

I have it sticked on my computer. Extremely helpful

I know this may be a big ask but do you mind if I dm you on this forum and ask quesitons related to my situation ? You seem to know the most about this process evidenced by the previous answers youve provided on my posts.

Sure

 

[secondariesftw]

For example a studnt might have a 3.0 in their undergraduate gpa but a 3.8 in the postacc/smp gpa.

Also I was not aware that if you apply 3 times your chances are pretty much done. My stress is level 100 now.

I cant believe this whole process is so hard 😢

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but Med school is hard. There is a reason for the MCAT and expected GPAs. Undergrad is easy. The problem is if you ended up with a 3.0 in undergrad, what makes you think you can handle medical school? Why will a med school think you can handle it?

Sure, there are excuses for getting that 3.0. I got sick, struggled with x,y,z had to work 3 jobs. The problem is if you can't properly manage your undergrad, medical school will be a lot worse. What are you going to do when you need to study for step1 and step 2? Look through some of the posts in the reddit medicalschool forum. There are plenty of folks dealing with remediation, failed step 1, etc. etc. Schools don't like this. Unlike the Caribbean schools, they aren't looking to take your tuition and kick you out after you fail classes or step 1. They have limited seats and want to make sure they fill them with folks whom they are confident will be successful.

Many of the folks you are competing against for seats started working toward their goal in HS, planning out their courses, taking dual enrollment and starting undergrad with 30 credits of As already. These folks are extraordinarily likely to excel in med school and their applications and ECs show it. It's like trying out for a football team when you can't even run 50 yards against folks who have been training all their lives.

Even with a 3.8+ and a 517+, you statistically only have an 83% chance of getting accepted. MSAR doesn't lie.

 

[polymerization]

Many of the folks you are competing against for seats started working toward their goal in HS, planning out their courses, taking dual enrollment and starting undergrad with 30 credits of As already. These folks are extraordinarily likely to excel in med school and their applications and ECs show it. It's like trying out for a football team when you can't even run 50 yards against folks who have been training all their lives.

OP, this was my undergrad experience, encapsulated in two sentences.

That said, it doesn't mean it's impossible to catch up, it just means you have to be strategic about covering your bases.

It means doing what I did—going door to door in medical arts buildings asking clinics for shadowing; it means cold-calling/cold-emailing several hundred physicians for the one person that's willing to respond to you; it means spending 8 hours at the tutoring center at your school because there's no way your education thus far could have possibly prepared you for seeing the word "oxidoreductase" at 17, when I was first stepping onto campus. It means trolling these forums trying to piecemeal what you need to do to get into medical school, getting through your first panic attack, and then putting yourself back together to make a plan.

And the overwhelmingly likely reality is that a lot of what you attempt won't work. It'll be trial and error; frustration after frustration—you'll likely spend considerable thought wondering why this feels like repeatedly jumping through flaming hoops to land on hot coals.

I'm writing my secondaries now...and as I look through ten years of errors, tears, strife—I remember what it was like to step on campus for the first time and feel like life, for perhaps the first time, has offered me an opportunity. Looking back, I realize it was—and still is.

I spent a really long time wondering how I would explain all of this struggle, like I had to apologize for existing. What I came to realize is that this process has given me an immense gift. How many times did I have to talk myself into entering rooms I felt I didn't belong in? How many times have I taken a call with a physician only to hit "Mute" so I can take a few deep breaths? How many times did I have to hear the word "No" and have to find an alternative path...even if it was an improper or illegal denial?

I'm not sure, but it was a lot. I just know I am no longer shaking-in-my-boots horrified. I've earned confidence in professional settings; a willingness to be perceived, heard, even scrutinized. I've learned what my future patients have to go through just to be taken seriously. I understand why society is organized the way it is, where medicine fits in that picture, and how I want to impress my lessons on the profession. More than anything, I've learned so much about myself and how I handle failure.

These days, my lessons are about celebration—how to experience success when it finally does come; how to be open to giving up the gun and collaborating in an environment that has become much less hostile over time.

I know that, maybe, you're overwhelmed with requirements and you're just trying to slog through. But take a beat and reflect now—while you still can. Don't just throw yourself into things: plan. What world do you want to see in the future? What opportunities align with that vision? Spend time doing things you're actually interested in, and you won't feel like you're slowly wasting away—you'll be building skills and perspectives. There really are enormous rewards on the other side. You'll see a lot of negatives, of course—but the self-knowledge you gain will help you weather that storm.

Good luck!

 

[2026PreMed]

OP, this was my undergrad experience, encapsulated in two sentences.

That said, it doesn't mean it's impossible to catch up, it just means you have to be strategic about covering your bases.

It means doing what I did—going door to door in medical arts buildings asking clinics for shadowing; it means cold-calling/cold-emailing several hundred physicians for the one person that's willing to respond to you; it means spending 8 hours at the tutoring center at your school because there's no way your education thus far could have possibly prepared you for seeing the word "oxidoreductase" at 17, when I was first stepping onto campus. It means trolling these forums trying to piecemeal what you need to do to get into medical school, getting through your first panic attack, and then putting yourself back together to make a plan.

And the overwhelmingly likely reality is that a lot of what you attempt won't work. It'll be trial and error; frustration after frustration—you'll likely spend considerable thought wondering why this feels like repeatedly jumping through flaming hoops to land on hot coals.

I'm writing my secondaries now...and as I look through ten years of errors, tears, strife—I remember what it was like to step on campus for the first time and feel like life, for perhaps the first time, has offered me an opportunity. Looking back, I realize it was—and still is.

I spent a really long time wondering how I would explain all of this struggle, like I had to apologize for existing. What I came to realize is that this process has given me an immense gift. How many times did I have to talk myself into entering rooms I felt I didn't belong in? How many times have I taken a call with a physician only to hit "Mute" so I can take a few deep breaths? How many times did I have to hear the word "No" and have to find an alternative path...even if it was an improper or illegal denial?

I'm not sure, but it was a lot. I just know I am no longer shaking-in-my-boots horrified. I've earned confidence in professional settings; a willingness to be perceived, heard, even scrutinized. I've learned what my future patients have to go through just to be taken seriously. I understand why society is organized the way it is, where medicine fits in that picture, and how I want to impress my lessons on the profession. More than anything, I've learned so much about myself and how I handle failure.

These days, my lessons are about celebration—how to experience success when it finally does come; how to be open to giving up the gun and collaborating in an environment that has become much less hostile over time.

I know that, maybe, you're overwhelmed with requirements and you're just trying to slog through. But take a beat and reflect now—while you still can. Don't just throw yourself into things: plan. What world do you want to see in the future? What opportunities align with that vision? Spend time doing things you're actually interested in, and you won't feel like you're slowly wasting away—you'll be building skills and perspectives. There really are enormous rewards on the other side. You'll see a lot of negatives, of course—but the self-knowledge you gain will help you weather that storm.

Good luck!

I am going to save this post. Very Motivating and quality writing. Thank you for taking the time to write this. I wish you good luck with your secondaries and with Medical School.