Ontario Universities

[RedMittenDoc]

Well, this is a one off question for this forum but I'll attempt anyway! =D

So I'm grade 11 and I've wanted to be a Vet for awhile, that's always been my plan. And recently, I'd decided that obviously Guelph is my choice, the only Vet School I can apply to is at Guelph... DUH... and then, my brain decided that because the Bio-med program is the only Bach connected with the OVC (Ontario Vet College), it's obvious I should go there. Now the Problem:

I understand Guelph offers I believe unique opportunities for volunteering at the OVC, but there's about 1500 sci student (maybe not all wanna-be vets) that have the same experiences, and those kids not in Bio-med who are in Bio Sci will have an easier time getting a high GPA, less time working more volunteering, therefore I could get beaten by these people. Or people who are at easier no name GPA universities that could beat me.

Is Guelph Bio-med still my best choice, regardless of the increased competitiveness and difficulty, or should I go to a program that's easier or even an easier university?

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[Trematode]

Are you an Ontario resident?
Have you looked at the requirements for the vet school? If it is pre-req based over GPA based, it does not matter what program you do as long as you do well in your pre-reqs.

 

[RedMittenDoc]

(Yes I lived in Ontario my whole life) Hun, that's odd because when I look at OVC admission 2015 and scoll down they include also non pre reqs:
(http://www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/future/dvm/documents/DVMPROGRAMADMISSIONSTATISTICS2011_000.pdf)

Marks for the last two full-time semesters for ADMITTED 2011domestic undergraduate cohort applicants.
(n = 102)
Range: 74.80 – 96.80
Mean: 85.70
Median: 85.80
Marks for 8 required courses for ADMITTED 2011 domestic undergraduate cohort applicants.
(n= 102)
Range: 78.75 – 97.25
Mean: 87.16
Median: 88.00

 

[SocialStigma]

OVC looks at both prereq GPA and the last 2 full time semesters' GPA, that's it (they don't take into account cumulative GPA).

If Guelph biomed is where you want to go then I wouldn't let the competitiveness deter you, they do have some awesome opportunities available that I never got to experience (I didn't go to Guelph for undergrad). But if you're only considering Guelph biomed because of its affiliation with OVC, and you actually like another school/program better - then I would go to that other place.

I've wanted to be a vet since I was a kid but I didn't even apply to Guelph for undergrad because I knew that even though I wanted to go to OVC, Guelph's undergrad programs didn't appeal to me. No regrets about that, so don't let OVC influence your top choice.

 

[Trematode]

Go where you want to go. If you think your experience may be lacking and you are worried about competitiveness, why don't you look into attending a smaller university?
I am from Atlantic Canada and attended a small university (~3000 students). Even though I did not have a 4.0 GPA, I was still able to get involved with research (which looks great on my application) and I got a lot of advice from profs on where to get veterinary experience. If I had went to a larger university, I doubt I would have able to get involved with research and I probably would have competed with pre-vets for veterinary experience.

 

[Escalla]

Go where you want to go. If you think your experience may be lacking and you are worried about competitiveness, why don't you look into attending a smaller university?
I am from Atlantic Canada and attended a small university (~3000 students). Even though I did not have a 4.0 GPA, I was still able to get involved with research (which looks great on my application) and I got a lot of advice from profs on where to get veterinary experience. If I had went to a larger university, I doubt I would have able to get involved with research and I probably would have competed with pre-vets for veterinary experience.

I second this 👍👍👍

I attended the University of Calgary for two years since they were just opening up the vet school there when I graduated high school. There were hardly any opportunities for experience or research due to the fact that I had ~400 people in my classes. Moved to MN and attended a very small university (~1500) and a TON of doors opened to great animal experiences, work with professors and extracurriculars that looked great on a resume.

So +1 for the little guys! 🙂

 

[finnerma]

I second this 👍👍👍

I attended the University of Calgary for two years since they were just opening up the vet school there when I graduated high school. There were hardly any opportunities for experience or research due to the fact that I had ~400 people in my classes. Moved to MN and attended a very small university (~1500) and a TON of doors opened to great animal experiences, work with professors and extracurriculars that looked great on a resume.

So +1 for the little guys! 🙂

Not sure how much the Canadian universities differ from the US ones, but I went to a large US university and that was the only reason I could get involved in so much research. The smaller US schools generally do not do as much research as the large universities. In my experience, the professors want the most highly motivated students working with them, so if you are excited about research and you seek them out, you shouldn't have a problem getting this experience. Good luck!

 

[Trematode]

At my university, I was seen as a person, not just a number. All of my professors speak to me when I see them in the hallway. Every time I needed to sample, my research supervisor would pick me up from my house, buy me a coffee, take me sampling and drive me back to the unversity (since I didn't have a car). I have had casual lunches with the dean. One prof hooked me up with a vet who was starting her own clinic. I have been in every issue of the biology newsletter since it started (and even got to contribute to it). It was really easy to get involved with activities on campus. It was an amazing experience. I really miss it there.

I have heard stories about people being "just a number" at larger universities. I doubt I would have the same experience if I went to a larger university. It is a personal preference. I agree that larger universities have more research opportunities. That is great! But I like the feel of a small university... I got a LOT of support from the professors. They didn't care that I flunked my first semester or am a horrible chemistry student. Smaller universities tend to be overlooked here... everyone wants to do to the large universities that are nationally and internationally recognized. If the OP is worried about slipping through the cracks at a large university and about the competitiveness, it does not hurt to look at all options.

I am a little biased though. I had the opportunity to attend a large university instead and the thought made me anxious. My roomate is doing a computer science program there. He is in his last year. He has classes of 500 people. His is profs don't know who he is. My largest class was 123 (they since split it up). All my other courses have averaged about 25 students. Twice, I have been in classes with 6 people (which is AWESOME). The thought of being in a class with 500 students scares me a little bit.

Most of the research going on at my university was invertebrate-based (which is a downside). I focused on parasitology which has relevance to vet med, but unfortunately doesn't count at animal/vet experience on my application. I have no regrets though. Since there were so few people in our program, everyone who had an interest in research got to pursue an honours thesis and work with that professor prior to doing a thesis. So, in this case, if you had an interest and showed enthusiasm, it was very easy to get involved with the research going on. 👍. Another downside is that there was not a large variety of courses being offered.

Since the OP seems to be up in the air at the moment, I suggest they look at all of their options.

 

[lostbunny]

I'm an Ontario resident and I had this whole notion of "easier schools", "schools with a better rep." etc. when I was in grade 11 and all the uni's were coming to our schools to visit and do presentations.

I ended up going to the school I thought had the better reputation, and ended up hating it. I transfered to a different school 2 years later thinking it was the "easier school" and it ended up being alot more technical and in my opinion 'difficult' then what was expected at my first school (which has a pre-med program and med school). I did end up taking same year courses at both schools because I was transferring over a degree. So my experience just goes to show that universities are all different and one that suits someone else may not suit you.

Also, the bottom line is to just do well wherever you go. OVC doesn't take into consideration that UT might be the "hardest school" in Ontario, and so give you brownie points. The first round of accepted students is purely based on grades. They take the top 200 applicants regardless of their experience, school, etc. Its all grades.

Finally, if you look hard enough wherever you decide to go, you can find some really great experience. I didn't go to Guelph for undergrad nor was I in the GTA, but I had opportunities from regular SA clinics, specialty SA clinics, LA vets, wildlife, birds, reptiles, research, lab animal, etc. The downside to Guelph, like you pointed out, is that there are lots of pre-vets who will probably saturate all the local hospitals- but thats just a guess. Also don't forget that you have 4 months of summer holidays to get experience as well.

I know its hard right now to choose the right school, but if I can give any advice to a newb' pre-uni student, its to choose the university that best suits you. If it has your program, if you like the campus, etc. I had a hard time because my friends all went to different schools, and I didn't want to be seen as going to the "school for rejects" (where I ended up going and totally loved it!), and I wanted to choose a school that I thought OVC would regard highly.

What I learned from this is that OVC takes the best students based on grades (+MCAT) first, then you get into interviews/BIF, etc. They don't give a rats arse where you went, or what program you even took- as long as you do the pre recs and the MCAT. So whatever uni you choose, make sure its because YOU want to go there, and stop worrying about what all the other pre-vets are doing and who you're competition is. You'll drive yourself crazy and become an anti social pale zombie psycho. 😛

 

[RedMittenDoc]

WOW, Thank You guys, that's amazing advice...

I actually asked Guelph people (who responded quickly I might add) which programs the majority of OVC admitted student come from and she (maybe he) said:
"
A variety. Animal Biology, Biomedical Science, Zoology, Biological Sciences, BSc Ag in Animal Science, Wildlife Biology, etc. Since marks are so important it is best to take something that you will be passionate about.
"
Which is, amazing advice, which reflects what you guys are saying. You will succeed, if you enjoy what you do. I makes me think of how true that is,

***This will just be me thinking to myself feel no obligation to read whatsoever. Would love if people touched on it though ***

I take my class in Biology, I had thought I did great on one test, I get in back two weeks later, and did pretty bad, since then she mentioned we will be able to redo 3 assignments after x-mas, which may help a bit, I have, already, redo them... Now I look at my Immersion French Class, I haven't been able to bring myself to memorize all the verbs and all the tenses I need to since grade 6, I just don't enjoy that, I still have it on my mind but I just can never bring myself to do it. My parents and sister are somewhat trying leaning me to becoming an electrical engineer, and be an engineer like my dad, and go Queens or RMC like my Dad or sister. I wouldn't succeed in that. On second thought, I would succeed in that, but I wouldn't excel, that is the truth.

So I need to think about universities ignoring predispositions, and think about facts I have, and find a university suited for me and to do that, I need to know:

Well, who am I?

-I'm very calm
-I don't mind being by myself, even for long periods of time
-I like relaxed (but not lazy) people
-I like to consider myself a hard-worker
-I consider myself a regular version of smart

Well, what do I like and want in my university?

-I want my university to cleanly get me into OVC ASAP
-I want to study some subcategory of Biology
-I want to be surrounded by people who are fascinated by biology too
-I want to be in a clean university
-I want to have contributed something to a study I enjoy
-I want to spend more time volunteering than studying which means:
-I want a program that challenges me, but doesn't hold me down
-I want to stay in Ontario
-It's preferred to stay closer to home
-It's preferred to have a good admission average scholarship
-It's preferred to have nice dorms, with clean library where I can work
-It's preferred that it has a lower student to prof ratio (in my program)
-I must enjoy my life at that location

Well, I want to go to Ontario, so that makes it easier, my options are (underline means rejected), this is me trying to be unbiased against previous reputation thoughts, judging on information I have:

Lakehead - Too far away
Nipissing - Too far away
Algoma - Too far away (and something about religious school)
Laurentian
Trent
UOIT
Guelph
Waterloo
Wilfridd Laurier - Don't like atmosphere - Looks like HS grade 13...
Western
Windsor - Too far away
Carleton
Ottawa
Queen's
RMC - No Bio program
OCAD U - No Bio program
Ryerson
Toronto - Don't like atmosphere - To large
York
McMaster
Brock

1st redo Obvious cuts taken off

UOIT - This is a stupid reputation cut, but it's called UOITECHNOLOGY and has such a bad reputation I've never heard about someone with a degree from here
Laurentian
Trent
Guelph
Waterloo
Western
Carleton - It's either this one or Ottawa that's designed so people who live close can travel there and go home, each day, I won't like that, to close to home.
Ottawa - It's either this one or Carleton that's designed so people who live close can travel there and go home, each day, I won't like that, to close to home.
Queen's
York
McMaster
Brock
Ryerson

2nd Round. Lets look at programs offered and I have interest.

Laurentian:
-Biology
-Biomedical Biology
-Zoology

Trent:
-Biology

Guelph:
-Biomedical Sciences
-Animal Biology
-Zoology

Waterloo:
-Life Sciences

Western:
-Biological and Bio medical Sciences

Queen's:
-Life Sciences

York:
-Bio medical sciences

McMaster:
-Health Sciences
-Life Sciences

Brock:
-Biomedical Sciences

Ryerson:
-Biology

OK I HAVE TO LEAVE AND STUDY FOR MY LAST TEST I'LL GET BACK TO THIS TOMORROW!

 

[lostbunny]

WOW, Thank You guys, that's amazing advice...

***This will just be me thinking to myself feel no obligation to read whatsoever. Would love if people touched on it though ***

I take my class in Biology, I had thought I did great on one test, I get in back two weeks later, and did pretty bad, since then she mentioned we will be able to redo 3 assignments after x-mas, which may help a bit, I have, already, redo them... Now I look at my Immersion French Class, I haven't been able to bring myself to memorize all the verbs and all the tenses I need to since grade 6, I just don't enjoy that, I still have it on my mind but I just can never bring myself to do it. My parents and sister are somewhat trying leaning me to becoming an electrical engineer, and be an engineer like my dad, and go Queens or RMC like my Dad or sister. I wouldn't succeed in that. On second thought, I would succeed in that, but I wouldn't excel, that is the truth.

Just a heads up .... one if the big differences between high school and uni, is that in uni you will *often* think you did really well on something, and come back with red marks all over and only get a %60.

Many profs (especially in the lower years) won't give you extra assignments to make up for it. They tend to more or less see the entire class as a giant organism. What I mean by that, is say everyone does below average on some test/mid term, they will often change the weighting of other assignments/exams to make up for it. So take home message, (just really a warning lol...) if you do really badly on an assignment in uni, don't sweat it. There will likely be some way to make up for it in the end, but it may not be like high school where you can just do an extra assignment, or re-write the test. But definately do what you're doing (re-take low marks) to improve your marks so you can get into your uni.

Now... with the french immersion. I was in French Immersion until grade 10 when I dropped to core french. This was a really good decision for me. It was tough to 'drop' a class (i've got ego issues) into what my mind was a "lower standard"- but in the end it was completely and totally worth it. French was bringing down my average, and I just didn't care about verbs... all I took away from it was the song "J'ai, tu a, il a, elle a,... etc". So taking core french or the other one, might be a good option for you. I mean if you really want to learn french you can just go live in MTL for a summer or something 😛 It sounds like you're not really into it- but just be honest with yourself.

Finally, I didn't read your whole post- but just a tips from one Ontario-an to another... I took grade 12 english in the summer of going in to grade 12.... BEST idea ever. I really did it so I could fit in all sciences into my grade 12 schedule. My english teacher was awesome, and the entire course was finished in 3 weeks. We did plays (reenacted Macbeth), book reports and presentations and it was super easy and I'd never had so much fun in an english class. Just a disclaimer that it may not be the same everywhere, but something to look into.

Once I'd started grade 12, all my friends who hadn't taken it in the summer were so stressed out and since they'd had the 'real' english teacher it was a really tough course and apparently my old high school has one of the toughest english programs in the region (could be an old school myth though).

Anyways, good luck... and I skimmed through the bottom bits- seems like we must come from the same area in Ont. We could have even been neighbors lol.

 

[drwildlife]

Just a heads up .... one if the big differences between high school and uni, is that in uni you will *often* think you did really well on something, and come back with red marks all over and only get a %60.

So sad but, so true.

 

[ontarioprevet]

As a student at Guelph, I thought I would offer up my opinion.
I am currently in the Animal Biology major (BHSc)- which is a major I highly recommend you consider. While it is not affliated with OVC, almost all of your courses are animal related in the later years and in some you get practical experience for short periods of time). Personally, I think that all of my courses have been extremely relevant to what I will learn in veterinary school.
I also would not let the worry that you will be among many prevets deter you from going to Guelph. Guelph will offer you many opportunities besides that of volunteering at OVC and I personally have not found that clinics are oversaturated. Many students obtain their experience over summers etc through jobs and whatnot..so in my experience I have had not had a hard time whatesoever in finding volunteer placements.
Finally, I don't think that being among many prevets would be to your disadvantage. My program is probably 50-75% of individuals who plan to apply to/attend OVC. Is that overwhelming? Perhaps...but it is also a great support system. You interact with others who know exactly what you are going through, you help each other find opportunities in areas where you are lacking etc.
I think that there are many benefits to attending Guelph. Yes, it is true that OVC does not take into account the school you attend, so you don't need to attend Guelph if you don't feel that it is right for you.
I have loved my time at Guelph and am excited to hopefully be here for four more years! (fingers crossed!), I would be happy to answer any questions you have!

 

[SocialStigma]

I did my undergrad at Mac and I LOVED Mac/Hamilton. I still really, really miss the school/city and as wonderful as Guelph is..if Mac had a vet school there is no question in my mind that I would've chosen to stay there over Guelph. Not that there's anything wrong with OVC/Guelph, Mac/Hamilton was just that awesome.

I was in the health sciences program and also know a bit about the life sci program so feel free to PM me if you have any questions! It was nice because the health sci program is full of pre-meds (probably 85-90% of the class) and I was always the odd one out (1 of 3 people in my year who wanted to go the vet route). So there wasn't really any direct competition to get into OVC but it still really pushed me academically to have really smart peers who were all trying to get into med school (and obviously were all high achievers). The disadvantage is that you're pretty much on your own in terms of trying to get into OVC because no one else is really in the same situation. And there are very few animal-related courses you can take at Mac, all of the health sci courses focus on human anatomy and physiology (though I've found that to be a big help in itself, anat and phys are 2 of my highest marks currently because of my prior knowledge). The only remotely animal related course I ever took was animal behaviour (a 2nd year psych course).

There are only ~160 students per year so that's a pretty low student: prof ratio and I knew all my profs intimately (first name basis for the most part). The health sci library is gorgeous. Mac is extremely stingy with scholarships so no luck there (Queen's and Western offer the biggest scholarships, in my experience). I also had no trouble getting a research position in the Mac hospital, but I never volunteered at vet clinics while I was at school (chose to concentrate on getting high marks instead). There are several clinics in Hamilton though, the closest one is about a 10 min bus ride from campus.

You never mentioned whether or not you enjoy working in groups in your post, but if you hate working in groups..then Mac health sci is not for you haha. You don't have to love group work (I'm pretty neutral to it), but if you absolutely cannot do it then you'll hate your life in this program.

Also, you may want to consider animal physiology at Western..I know a couple people in OVC that graduated from that program. I think it's pretty unknown because it's overshadowed by UWO biomed but very few schools actually have an animal bio/animal phys program so it may be worth researching.

 

[Trematode]

The disadvantage is that you're pretty much on your own in terms of trying to get into OVC because no one else is really in the same situation.

I did not know anyone applying to vet school. I learned all I needed to learn from SDN. 😉.

 

[RedMittenDoc]

Once I'd started grade 12, all my friends who hadn't taken it in the summer were so stressed out and since they'd had the 'real' english teacher it was a really tough course and apparently my old high school has one of the toughest english programs in the region (could be an old school myth though).

YUP. I spoke to my counselor around the beginning of the year, and she explained how I could do that definitely is great idea, thank you.