Opposite of the ROAD

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Endolas

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Here's an pointless exercise: create your own acronym for what you consider to be the specialties most antithetical to the ROAD. The worst lifestyle, worst hours, etc.

Create an acronym for posterity and aid future doctors in avoiding the quagmires.
 
After some thought, I would say PONG. Peds has crap pay and stupid parents; OB-GYN was terrible hours, grossness, bad malpractice; Neurosurgery has brutal residency and hours as attending still suck, long surgeries; and finally good ol' Gen Surg has bad hours/call and tough residency.
 
Here's an pointless exercise: create your own acronym for what you consider to be the specialties most antithetical to the ROAD. The worst lifestyle, worst hours, etc.

Create an acronym for posterity and aid future doctors in avoiding the quagmires.

****ED.

Oh wait, that's not an acronym. More of a statement, really.
 
Would ortho fall under somewhere around neuro?
long hours on call etc, or I'm prob just thinking of ortho-spine
 
TONG specialties

Thoracic Surgery
Orthopedic surgery
Neurological surgery
General surgery

Heh, after I posted, I regretted not using CT. Everything I read says job market blows.

THONG works. I don't anything about heme though.
 
N-neurosurgery: crazy a** residency
O-OB: smelly snappers and hormonal pregnant women, crazy schedule
P-Psych: crazy patients
E-ER: crazy patients, crazy family members
 
Some of the surgery residency are pretty tough, as mentioned above.
 
add hematology just so we can call it "THONG" specialties.

Yea.. Most private practice Hem/Onc doctors work long hard hours, and fail to get good compensation.. lol...

My landlord is a hem/onc doctor. I think he spends more time on vacation than he does at work.
 
Here's an pointless exercise: create your own acronym for what you consider to be the specialties most antithetical to the ROAD. The worst lifestyle, worst hours, etc.

Create an acronym for posterity and aid future doctors in avoiding the quagmires.

The trouble is, the "quagmires" are the fields that we need MORE of. When your 2 week old spikes a 101 degree fever, are you going to call your neighborhood dermatologist for advice? When you have appendicitis or a surgical abdomen, is your ophthalmologist going to take care of you?

Trying to figure out ways of steering pre-meds into avoiding primary care and surgery because they either don't reimburse well or have difficult hours is really "the pointless exercise" in my opinion.

So is it safe to say that everyone [except masochists] will avoid the THONGs?

Not necessarily.

I have almost yet to meet an unhappy orthopedic surgeon. The residents are a little overworked, but it's very hard to find open residency spots. It has a very good retention rate - once people match into ortho, they seem happy enough to stay there.

Thoracic surgery isn't a bad field, hours wise. Not a lot of emergencies, decent reimbursement, hours aren't terrible.

And not everyone is tripping over themselves to do the ROAD specialties either.

- I spent an afternoon in the radiology reading room - about 4 hours, from what I'm told. I only remember the first ten minutes of it...I found it so boring that I spent most of the time daydreaming, planning my next vacation, etc.

- I liked ophtho. But just examining the eye gets a little boring. And I didn't like fitting people for glasses. "Is it better 1, or 2? Is it better 1, or 2?"

- Anesthesia isn't for me. The "long stretches of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror" just seemed way too unpredictable and like too much stress.

- Derm....rashes freak me out, because (in my over-worked imagination) all rashes are contagious until proven otherwise. And, in derm, you see all the weird rashes that the patient's PCP couldn't figure out. No thanks.

Do what you enjoy. I've met extremely happy, satisfied neurosurgeons, and have also met grumpy, cranky, angry-at-the-universe radiologists. Money and free time aren't everything.
 
The trouble is, the "quagmires" are the fields that we need MORE of. When your 2 week old spikes a 101 degree fever, are you going to call your neighborhood dermatologist for advice? When you have appendicitis or a surgical abdomen, is your ophthalmologist going to take care of you?

Trying to figure out ways of steering pre-meds into avoiding primary care and surgery because they either don't reimburse well or have difficult hours is really "the pointless exercise" in my opinion.



Not necessarily.

I have almost yet to meet an unhappy orthopedic surgeon. The residents are a little overworked, but it's very hard to find open residency spots. It has a very good retention rate - once people match into ortho, they seem happy enough to stay there.

Thoracic surgery isn't a bad field, hours wise. Not a lot of emergencies, decent reimbursement, hours aren't terrible.

And not everyone is tripping over themselves to do the ROAD specialties either.

- I spent an afternoon in the radiology reading room - about 4 hours, from what I'm told. I only remember the first ten minutes of it...I found it so boring that I spent most of the time daydreaming, planning my next vacation, etc.

- I liked ophtho. But just examining the eye gets a little boring. And I didn't like fitting people for glasses. "Is it better 1, or 2? Is it better 1, or 2?"

- Anesthesia isn't for me. The "long stretches of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror" just seemed way too unpredictable and like too much stress.

- Derm....rashes freak me out, because (in my over-worked imagination) all rashes are contagious until proven otherwise. And, in derm, you see all the weird rashes that the patient's PCP couldn't figure out. No thanks.

Do what you enjoy. I've met extremely happy, satisfied neurosurgeons, and have also met grumpy, cranky, angry-at-the-universe radiologists. Money and free time aren't everything.

"I... I think your hands... are growing eyes..." :whoa:

Amen to the second bolded.
 
Judging from the ROAD(E) thread diatribe, I thought it would be Law2Doc who would crap on the thread. Guess it was you.

Chill out. This thread is supposed to be fun.

....

NOPE is hilarious because it's so easy to remember and self-referencing.
 
Judging from the ROAD(E) thread diatribe, I thought it would be Law2Doc who would crap on the thread. Guess it was you.

Chill out. This thread is supposed to be fun.

I get tired of being asked, over and over again, why I didn't do a ROAD specialty. (The answer has become fine-tuned to "I didn't want to scratch my eyes out from boredom.") So a thread that encourages pre-meds to avoid the "quagmires" of primary care and surgery is doubly irritating.

And, also, when I was in med school, I heard sooo many people disparage so many other specialties, so I didn't consider them. "Oh, you don't want to do surgery. They're all mean and they work too hard. Oh, you don't want to do peds; they don't get paid enough. Oh, you don't want to do psych; they deal only with crazies." And I heard all that and, because of what they said, wrote off a lot of specialties that I ended up LOVING during MS3. So I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't try to talk pre-meds out of any specialties.

Don't call them "quagmires" and don't suggest that people go out of their way to avoid these fields, and I won't crap on your thread. 😛
 
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I shadowed a trauma surgeon who worked insane hours. He would do 48's over the weekend all the time, and when he did 24's he would usually work 7a-7a, have some coffee and breakfast, then see patients at his clinic from 8a-4p. Ouch.
 
Can someone enlighten me as to why Internal Medicine "sucks so bad"?
 
Can someone enlighten me as to why Internal Medicine "sucks so bad"?

It's boring. Coughs and colds. You spend your day in the office, the evening making rounds in the hospital, and all night answering phone calls about if a patient can have a Tylenol.
 
Can someone enlighten me as to why Internal Medicine "sucks so bad"?

I don't think it sucks, there are plenty of happy IM docs out there. I personally wouldn't want to do it because I don't want to round 7 days a week and get pages all day and night about my patients.
 
I get tired of being asked, over and over again, why I didn't do a ROAD specialty. (The answer has become fine-tuned to "I didn't want to scratch my eyes out from boredom.") So a thread that encourages pre-meds to avoid the "quagmires" of primary care and surgery is doubly irritating.

And, also, when I was in med school, I heard sooo many people disparage so many other specialties, so I didn't consider them. "Oh, you don't want to do surgery. They're all mean and they work too hard. Oh, you don't want to do peds; they don't get paid enough. Oh, you don't want to do psych; they deal only with crazies." And I heard all that and, because of what they said, wrote off a lot of specialties that I ended up LOVING during MS3. So I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't try to talk pre-meds out of any specialties.

Don't call them "quagmires" and don't suggest that people go out of their way to avoid these fields, and I won't crap on your thread. 😛

Very well put. Though I find it weird that people here, in PRE-Allo, are making this stuff up. If med students/residents/etc made it, it'd make sense. This, however, is.... reminescent of 13 yr olds saying why you shouldn't get X or Y car when they get a car when they haven't even driven a car/know wtf they're talking about.:laugh:

I'll also disagree about Heme/Onc... apparently you guys don't even know what you're talking about because ...wtf
 
The trouble is, the "quagmires" are the fields that we need MORE of. When your 2 week old spikes a 101 degree fever, are you going to call your neighborhood dermatologist for advice? When you have appendicitis or a surgical abdomen, is your ophthalmologist going to take care of you?

as I said in another thread. If a doc wasn't smart enough to match into Derm, he's not worthy of touching my child. :meanie:

/but yeah, other than that, good points. I picked my specialty based on MS3... I still find it amazing that I hadn't even considered my specialty for which I'm almost done interviewing less than a year ago.
 
I get tired of being asked, over and over again, why I didn't do a ROAD specialty. (The answer has become fine-tuned to "I didn't want to scratch my eyes out from boredom.") So a thread that encourages pre-meds to avoid the "quagmires" of primary care and surgery is doubly irritating.

I don't want to do ROAD, either. It's just a fun thread.
 
It's boring. Coughs and colds. You spend your day in the office, the evening making rounds in the hospital, and all night answering phone calls about if a patient can have a Tylenol.

* IM has a lot of flexibility. You can be a hospitalist and only see patients in the hospital (and only work 2 weeks a month, or some such schedule). You could do a fellowship and be a cardiologist, pulmonologist, etc. You can do only outpatient, if you want.

* ALL specialties have their boring "bread and butter" complaints. General surgeons see a ton of regular hernias or appendectomies, derm sees a lot of routine acne, radiologists have a ton of normal chest x-rays to read. And ophthalmologists fit people for glasses, which is not exactly the most exciting thing in the world.

You do something often enough, and for long enough, and it will become routine.

* All specialists in private practice will get their share of stupid after-hours calls. One of my attendings was a pulmonologist and was woken up at 3 AM by a patient who asked if it was "okay to take the antibiotic you gave me with milk, instead of water."

You can avoid by setting up your answering service so that you have some control over which calls get filtered through to you.

IM has its good and bad points, just like every other specialty.
 
* IM has a lot of flexibility. You can be a hospitalist and only see patients in the hospital (and only work 2 weeks a month, or some such schedule). You could do a fellowship and be a cardiologist, pulmonologist, etc. You can do only outpatient, if you want.

* ALL specialties have their boring "bread and butter" complaints. General surgeons see a ton of regular hernias or appendectomies, derm sees a lot of routine acne, radiologists have a ton of normal chest x-rays to read. And ophthalmologists fit people for glasses, which is not exactly the most exciting thing in the world.

You do something often enough, and for long enough, and it will become routine.

* All specialists in private practice will get their share of stupid after-hours calls. One of my attendings was a pulmonologist and was woken up at 3 AM by a patient who asked if it was "okay to take the antibiotic you gave me with milk, instead of water."

You can avoid by setting up your answering service so that you have some control over which calls get filtered through to you.

IM has its good and bad points, just like every other specialty.

That's kind of what I thought.

I understand techno-philes liking stuff like rad, ortho, etc. I can understand procedure-driven people liking surgery specialties. I can even understand adrenaline junkies who want CT, vascular, trauma OR, or EM stuff.

why is it hard to imagine someone who likes to use only their brain and seeing a wide variety of cases preferring internal medicine?
 
All of them are bad when you consider that they all come close to having no life (almost). for at least 7 years.

A naesthesiology

F amily medicine
E mergency medicine
U rology
D ermatology

P sychiatry
O bstetrics-gynecology
P ediatrics
P athology
I nternal medicine
N eurology
G eneral gurgery

P lastic surgery
O tolaryngology
R adiology
N uerological surgery
O pthamology

P hysical medicine and rehabilitation
R adiation oncology
O rthopaedic surgery

Another alternative is A GRIPPED FUN PORNO POOP. 😎 Damn, I'm bored. 🙁
 
N-neurosurgery: crazy a** residency
O-OB: smelly snappers and hormonal pregnant women, crazy schedule
P-Psych: crazy patients
E-ER: crazy patients, crazy family members
I worked in a psych outpatient clinic. The doctors have pretty good hours and the patients are pretty well behaved for the most part. I think the bulk of their cases are depression and anxiety disorders. They typically deal with folks that are mostly normal.
 
I get tired of being asked, over and over again, why I didn't do a ROAD specialty. (The answer has become fine-tuned to "I didn't want to scratch my eyes out from boredom.") So a thread that encourages pre-meds to avoid the "quagmires" of primary care and surgery is doubly irritating.

And, also, when I was in med school, I heard sooo many people disparage so many other specialties, so I didn't consider them. "Oh, you don't want to do surgery. They're all mean and they work too hard. Oh, you don't want to do peds; they don't get paid enough. Oh, you don't want to do psych; they deal only with crazies." And I heard all that and, because of what they said, wrote off a lot of specialties that I ended up LOVING during MS3. So I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't try to talk pre-meds out of any specialties.

Don't call them "quagmires" and don't suggest that people go out of their way to avoid these fields, and I won't crap on your thread. 😛


As for the bolded section - ME TOO. Seriously, I'd rather work 70 hours a week doing something I love, than 40 hours a week hating every second of it. No amount of free time is worth hating your job. And I want to feel like I've actually tried to do something to make the patient better (hence, why I'm going intodone Critical Care). But the month of radiology I did as a 4th year med student was the most boring thing I could have imagined. Optho, it's clinic, so I hated it. Derm...why would I want to look at your rash or treat your acne - develop a real problem and then get back to me. Anesthesia would have been worth it for the moments of terror, but the remaining 90% of the time? Meh.

Further, despite the perception of the ROAD specialties, Pediatricians and pediatric subspecialists consistently have some of the highest scores in terms of job satisfaction (5 of the top 6 spots involved peds when controlling for covariables according to this 2009 study - table 5: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6963/9/166).
 
* IM has a lot of flexibility. You can be a hospitalist and only see patients in the hospital (and only work 2 weeks a month, or some such schedule). You could do a fellowship and be a cardiologist, pulmonologist, etc. You can do only outpatient, if you want.

* ALL specialties have their boring "bread and butter" complaints. General surgeons see a ton of regular hernias or appendectomies, derm sees a lot of routine acne, radiologists have a ton of normal chest x-rays to read. And ophthalmologists fit people for glasses, which is not exactly the most exciting thing in the world.

You do something often enough, and for long enough, and it will become routine.

* All specialists in private practice will get their share of stupid after-hours calls. One of my attendings was a pulmonologist and was woken up at 3 AM by a patient who asked if it was "okay to take the antibiotic you gave me with milk, instead of water."

You can avoid by setting up your answering service so that you have some control over which calls get filtered through to you.

IM has its good and bad points, just like every other specialty.


Ophthalmologists can have ophthalmic technicians (what I'm currently working as) that refract (figure out the prescription for a patient's new pair of glasses) and work up the patient (taking patient history, measure visual acuity, dilate the patients, color plates, pupil exam, visual field testing, ect ect ect) for them.
 
I worked in a psych outpatient clinic. The doctors have pretty good hours and the patients are pretty well behaved for the most part. I think the bulk of their cases are depression and anxiety disorders. They typically deal with folks that are mostly normal.

I can see how outpt psych would be nice. Inpt psych can be a different beast. Substance abuse is very prevalent as well as manipulative behavior. The violence can be a bit scary, and the last time that I worked on the psych unit, I almost got hurt. Psych units can vary greatly in acuity, though. It's also got to be sad to never really get patients better but to only bring them back to their baseline (which unfortunately is not limited to only psychiatry). I'm glad that people think that psych is nice because we need good people to address the plethora of mental health issues. 🙂
 
I'd say the only specialties that are definitely "bad lifestyle" (at least on average) are general OB/GYN and Neurosurgery.

The majority of other specialties have great flexibility in terms of having the lifestyle you want.

Just my opinion though, as I am a lowly pre-med.
 
Ophthalmologists can have ophthalmic technicians (what I'm currently working as) that refract (figure out the prescription for a patient's new pair of glasses) and work up the patient (taking patient history, measure visual acuity, dilate the patients, color plates, pupil exam, visual field testing, ect ect ect) for them.

True, they can....if their practice supports that. Not all ophtho practices can afford that.

Even if they didn't refract, the bread-and-butter of most ophthalmologists is cataracts, retinopathy (usually diabetic) and glaucoma....none of which are particularly glamorous or super-exciting. If it interests you, awesome! But it doesn't interest everyone, no matter how good the money or lifestyle can be.

I can see how outpt psych would be nice. Inpt psych can be a different beast. Substance abuse is very prevalent as well as manipulative behavior. The violence can be a bit scary, and the last time that I worked on the psych unit, I almost got hurt.

The thing is, and what most pre-meds don't realize, is that while all fields have their disadvantages, these disadvantages are rarely limited to just one field. There's tons of overlap. Sure, inpatient psych can be scary, but so can EM, outpatient pain management, and even outpatient FP. When I was a med student, a surgery resident was assaulted by the guy who tried to shoot her patient. Even on the peds unit, some parents get angry and violent. And, when I was a med student, a patient's husband had to be escorted off of Labor and Delivery by security because he was throwing things at his wife and her nurse (he accused his wife of cheating on him, that she was pregnant with someone else's baby, etc.) Another guy in the ER spat blood at the anesthesia resident who was trying to sedate him.

And don't even get started on substance abuse and manipulative behavior, which you will see in practically EVERY field of medicine. PM&R (which traditionally has a very good lifestyle), psych, ortho, EM....pretty much any field you can think of.

I'd say the only specialties that are definitely "bad lifestyle" (at least on average) are general OB/GYN and Neurosurgery.

The majority of other specialties have great flexibility in terms of having the lifestyle you want.

Just my opinion though, as I am a lowly pre-med.

Even in general OB/gyn, your lifestyle doesn't have to be terrible. It depends on your practice, how much money you're willing to make, what kinds of conditions you're willing to see, and how your hospital covers L&D. It's not that black-and-white.

Even for derm, it depends on your practice and your goals. I have met dermatologists who, because they want to do some research on the side, work 70-80 hours a week, 6-7 days a week. Hardly cushy, if you ask me.
 
And, when I was a med student, a patient's husband had to be escorted off of Labor and Delivery by security because he was throwing things at his wife and her nurse (he accused his wife of cheating on him, that she was pregnant with someone else's baby, etc.)

black_baby_white_parents.jpg
 
Thanks for the insight smq. Everytime I tell someone that so far I am most interested in general surgery, they have all sorts of negative things to say. Luckily, I worked in a surg practice office for a few years and one of my good friends is a GS intern!! So far everything I am interested in is "terrible." I can't wait until my clerkships so I can see for myself!
 
N-neurosurgery: crazy a** residency
O-OB: smelly snappers and hormonal pregnant women, crazy schedule
P-Psych: crazy patients
E-ER: crazy patients, crazy family members

Like smq123 said, if you haven't had any experience with an area, don't rule it out just yet.

I've been shadowing my gyn and he loves his job. I love it for him. In his practice are 2 other male OB/GYNs who also love it. I'm in the office 8:30-5:30 or 6 everyday, and then at the hospital for scheduled surgeries (not just c-sections either!) on Tues/Thurs mornings, plus rounds and of course births.

However, with his practice, he's not on call every night or every weekend at the hospital - it's split between the 3 doctors so it's not that bad. The three of them have surgeries they like i.e. mine loves hysterectomies, one loves repairing bladders, etc. so they help each other out. Since the practice's charts have gone digital, he can access and update everything before the patient leaves the building.

He's established such a good rapport with his patients that he's doctor to many of his initial patients' children and grandchildren come to him for their routine care and delivers their children as well. It's not just smells and hormonal mommies.

I wasn't sure about OB/GYN, but after this experience I could see myself doing it.
 
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Man, I love coming over to the pre-allo forum for a good chuckle. The blind leading the blind, that's what we have here folks. So folks who have never done gen surg, CT, rads, anesthesia, optho, uro, gyn, or any other specialty are busy giving each other advice on what sucks and what doesn't. I know that this thread is tongue in cheek (sort of), but here's some advice from someone who's about to match:

KEEP YOUR MIND OPEN.

Let me repeat that again in case you missed it:

KEEP YOUR MIND OPEN.


You might just like gen surg, OB, uro, optho, gas, IM, peds, PM&R, psych, or neuro or whatever else floats your boat.

Here's another dirty little secret: Since the ACGME in the wisdom has decided that we don't need as much training to be good doctors, most residencies will start looking similar from an hours perspective. The surgery intern? guess what, he will work the same 16 hour shift that the IM intern will. As residents? both will only be able to work 24 hours at a stretch, and consequently, will both be working 24 hours at a stretch. So you might just think about doing what you enjoy, not what you think is sexy, pays well, easy life, etc.. because all of those things will change.

Let me repeat again, since there might still be a doe-eyed impressionable pre-med who isn't champing at the bit to be an ophthomologist:

KEEP YOUR MIND OPEN.

*beats hasty retreat to other forums before the righteous indignation starts*
 
Like smq123 said, if you haven't had any experience with an area, don't rule it out just yet.

I've been shadowing my gyn and he loves his job. I love it for him. In his practice are 2 other male OB/GYNs who also love it. I'm in the office 8:30-5:30 or 6 everyday, and then at the hospital for scheduled surgeries (not just c-sections either!) on Tues/Thurs mornings, plus rounds and of course births.

However, with his practice, he's not on call every night or every weekend at the hospital - it's split between the 3 doctors so it's not that bad. The three of them have surgeries they like i.e. mine loves hysterectomies, one loves repairing bladders, etc. so they help each other out. Since the practice's charts have gone digital, he can access and update everything before the patient leaves the building.

He's established such a good rapport with his patients that he's doctor to many of his initial patients' children and grandchildren come to him for their routine care and delivers their children as well. It's not just smells and hormonal mommies.

I wasn't sure about OB/GYN, but after this experience I could see myself doing it.

"NOPE" was just a joke...kind of. 🙂 I do have clinical experiences in these areas except for neurosurgery so I know somewhat what they are like from one very limited perspective. You are so lucky to find a cool OB to follow. He sounds like a good person. Going into OB is the reason why I want to be a physician.
 
Oh honey, I wasn't knocking you fo shizzle! 🙂 Some people, including myself, are so adamant that they absolutely KNOW since in the womb that they're going to be a certain specialty and then don't want to experience anything else.

The pre-health advisor at my U told me that (she told me I might be a world class neurosurgeon) and I was thinking, "Pshhhht, yeah right. I know I want to do peds onc for the rest of my life." And then shadowing made me have to silently have to apologize to her for doubting her. But really, she's wrong about being neurosurgeon lol
 
Oh honey, I wasn't knocking you fo shizzle! 🙂 Some people, including myself, are so adamant that they absolutely KNOW since in the womb that they're going to be a certain specialty and then don't want to experience anything else.

The pre-health advisor at my U told me that (she told me I might be a world class neurosurgeon) and I was thinking, "Pshhhht, yeah right. I know I want to do peds onc for the rest of my life." And then shadowing made me have to silently have to apologize to her for doubting her. But really, she's wrong about being neurosurgeon lol

I'd laugh if anyone told me that I would make a wonderful neurosurgeon! 🙂
I like OB because I want to help other women who have had traumatic pregnancies/other women's health issues, so there is kind of an emotional attachment my pursuit. I can't change my mind too much from here since I'm already an old woman! 😉
 
The attachment grows SO easily doesn't it!!! I met a preggers mommy who came into the office last week with a complicated pregnancy, and then I was in the delivery room with her yesterday. She saw me walk in the door and got excited that I was there to see her son born. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside 🙂
 
The attachment grows SO easily doesn't it!!! I met a preggers mommy who came into the office last week with a complicated pregnancy, and then I was in the delivery room with her yesterday. She saw me walk in the door and got excited that I was there to see her son born. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside 🙂

It sounds like you're at home with OB so far!

OB is mostly a happier place...mostly...lots-o-drama sometimes...and when things go bad, it's usually very bad. When I saw my first birth the baby was a little purple. They were watching Willy Wonka so I said, "Look Violet, she's turning violet!" That poor girl is actually named Violet now. You never know how your interactions will positively or negatively affect your patients. I still see that little girl and mom every once in while around town. It's kind of neat. I definitely do get those warm fuzzies!
 
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