Options for a PhD following a MD

[Marquis_Phoenix]

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I want to do my PhD component at MIT. There are certain labs at MIT that are very specific to my research interests. To do so, there's really only one place where it's possible to gain access to that as a medical student - Harvard HST.

Suppose that one is unable to gain admission to Harvard HST, and suppose that financials are not an issue. Is it possible to leave in the middle of my MD program (after first 2 years) to pursue a 5 year PhD elsewhere (MIT), and come back and finish the remaining 2 years afterwards, or to simply finish the whole MD and then pursue a PhD?

Or highly unlikely/impossible?

 

[NickMB]

I can only speak of what my PI's told me about possibly pursuing a PhD after getting an MD, and they told me that is not recommended.

Consider that it takes quite some time to do proper research for a PhD (5 years for you, as you have figured). I find it interesting how most MD/PhD program brochures tell you that you can finish in 6 years, 4 for med 2 for research, when quite often that is not the case, at least not with the MD/PhD students with whom I have spoken.

My PI's have told me that students who get their PhD after their MD aren't quite as strong going into their residencies, and the laboratory skills of those who get their PhD and then go for their MD become rusty after four years of med school.

Have you considered one of those year off research fellowships? It won't get you a PhD, but it'll get your research going. With any luck, you might even find a topic on which you would like to do a dissertation.

With that said, it has been done. The determined mind knows no limit.

As far as taking 5 years off after USMLE I...I'm not sure. But consider how much you won't remember after 5 years going into your clinical rotations.

 

[Neuronix]

Is it possible to leave in the middle of my MD program (after first 2 years) to pursue a 5 year PhD elsewhere (MIT), and come back and finish the remaining 2 years afterwards, or to simply finish the whole MD and then pursue a PhD?

Sure. If you're footing the bill for the MD you get a lot more flexibility. Taking a break that long for a PhD elsewhere will be up to the medical school, however, but should be possible at many schools. Doing the MD then the PhD and then going to residency has a few issues, none insurmountable.

The biggest issue is going to be in some states Step I can expire, so you may have to retake Step I when you're going to residency if you take Step I before the PhD and you break from medical school (an issue common to MD/PhD as well). They may also change the whole testing system, and if that happens who knows. Doing your entire MD and then your PhD is certainly possible as well. Why not? The only thing is that if you take loans during medical school they're going to be accruing A LOT of interest during grad school. Some residency programs might look at you funny since you haven't been in clinics in awhile, but from what I hear that's not going to be much of a stumbling block.

Most of NickMB's concerns are just as valid for MD/PhDs. The only thing I might add is that the separate MD and PhD pathway tends to take at least a year longer overall. Almost nobody is graduating in 6, this is true, and I always say to look at MD/PhD as an 8 year program nowadays, but consider a complete loss of integration and what that could do to your graduation time. It should add at least a year since you're losing all the integration of the MD/PhD program.

 

[UndeadHeart]

I want to do my PhD component at MIT. There are certain labs at MIT that are very specific to my research interests. To do so, there's really only one place where it's possible to gain access to that as a medical student - Harvard HST.

Suppose that one is unable to gain admission to Harvard HST, and suppose that financials are not an issue. Is it possible to leave in the middle of my MD program (after first 2 years) to pursue a 5 year PhD elsewhere (MIT), and come back and finish the remaining 2 years afterwards, or to simply finish the whole MD and then pursue a PhD?

Or highly unlikely/impossible?

Most schools allow you to leave for a worthy reason i.e. research or international health. With MD/PhD programs like MSTP you get paid to do research basically, i.e. decreased MD tuition, support for the PhD. If you don't need this/are motivated I am sure a school would allow you to take off 2-3 years to complete a PhD (You WILL get credit for basic science at most/all PhD programs!!!), some schools only give partial tuition breaks for the MD portion for MD/PhD students. Because you will have completed basic science years, these are tough, I feel very certain you would get transfer credit, i.e. why make you do biochemistry twice or anatomy twice?!? My advice is just to talk to schools and confirm that this is an option, they will support you because they need more MD/PhD scientists, it is just that the money to do so is not there. . . now, you may not be able to get into Harvard's PhD program of your choice, (these are highly competitive), but if you do research in the summer between years 1 and 2, and do well in basic sciences years then you can apply with a good application and will probably get in somewhere for graduate school.

 

[JDWflash44]

Here's what I have found looking into such a plan. My mentor did this and is now the chairman of a prestigious Orthopedics department.

I plan to finish my medical school training and apply to residency. Do my residency in my field and possibly a clinical fellowship, followed by getting an position where I can work 1.5 days per week clinically, while getting my PhD 3.5 days a week (plus some weekends I'm sure🙂). The biggest problem with this is finding an institution that is willing to support you getting your PhD (and obviously you will be making considerably less $$, given your lack of clinical time).

My mentor did this and the way that he said he achieved it was he had this plan going into residency and found a program that supported it. He had a research year in his residency and continued working on some things from his project in the waning years of his residency (before the 80hr rule😱), as well as getting some graduate seminars out of the way. He used this data to apply for an NIH career development award that funded his PhD time. So he had this all ready to go right when he finished his residency. He then took 3.5 years to get his PhD while working as a clinician/surgeon 1.5 days per week. He said that this way he was able to make approx $100,000/yr while getting his PhD as well.

This is my plan going forward. There are definetly roadblocks along the way, but we will see how things will work out...

Hope this helps