Ortho Programs....Least competitive?

[UtahDDS]

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So, I'm sure this question will probably get a few people wound up......but I'm going to ask it nonetheless.

Preface: I know there are no ortho programs that are "easy" to get into. I am aware that ortho is extremely competitive and only the best of the best have a chance. I also have a pretty good idea of what it takes to be accepted as an ortho resident. Finally, I am aware that all ortho programs are good and that we will all be great orthodontists when we graduate.

Question: What programs are considered "easier" to get accepted? What are the ortho programs that would be equivalent to the dental schools such as NYU, Nova, Temple, Case, etc? (Those dental schools are great schools by the way; just a little easier to get into)

Thanks everyone!

 

[AbuABuAbu]

I would say 3 year programs are less competitive than 2 year programs, in addition if a program accepts 14 people versus 2 or 3, your chances are definately higher.

 

[Yang]

I think that programs that are expensive and in somewhat undesirable locations perhaps a little easier to get in. One doesn't really know unless one applies to every program that is out there and finds out.

 

[jcaxs]

I would say 3 year programs are less competitive than 2 year programs, in addition if a program accepts 14 people versus 2 or 3, your chances are definately higher.

This couldn't be further from the truth. If a program accepts 14 people, they usually interview many more applicants, keeping the ratio of students interviewed/students accepted about the same, if not higher, then programs that accept 4 residents

 

[vorosvirag]

It takes good credentials to get into ortho. Yet, it's also extremely political.

Sure, some kids got into dental school because of politics. Yet, if you had a solid GPA and decent DAT score you'd get in. Dental schools have to publish the average overall GPA, average Science GPA, average DAT scores, etc. for those they've accepted in a given year. With ortho, nobody publishes anything.

If you get into ortho, you were either incredibly qualified, incredibly connected, or a mix of both. Yet, there's no accountability for the admission committee to report anything to anyone. You may believe that's good or bad.

In my view, without any accountability, that's why a lot of monkey business goes on with ortho admissions. For example, you get a certain number of legacy spots, hand-picked kids who work with directors during dental school, and other odd methods to lock up ortho positions. You've all seen examples of this, I'm sure.

I'd argue that all programs are extremely difficult to get into for the above reasons. It's true, that more people likely want a 2-year program vs. a 3-year one (all else being equal). However, several people I know ranked 2.5-year programs over 2-year programs.

The bottom line is, the process is unpredictable (not enough spots for qualified kids) regardless of where you've interviewed. Too many backdoor spots, friends/relatives of faculty, and other frustrating factors. If you are qualified and you have a passion for doing this, it's worth re-applying if you strike out your first year.

 

[vorosvirag]

UtahDDS,

I interviewed for ortho at all the schools you listed as easy-to-get-into dental schools.

Unfortunately, their ortho programs are not nearly as easy to get into. For example, I'll list the number of spots (as best as I can remember) at each of those schools.

Case: 4 spots
Nova: 5
Temple: 5
NYU: 6-7 (but also take a bunch of internationals)

Not a lot of spots, as you can see. So, it becomes a numbers' game. Many apply and many interview. Many of those getting a spot worked for a year or more. So, 4th-year dental students are competing against students in their same grade level, as well as those who've done GP for a while, a GPR, or any number of other activities.

Another factor that makes it tougher is that foreign-trained dentists take up a fair % of orthodontic positions. This subject of FTDs have surfaced before on SDN. I'll list the number of ortho spots allocated to international students that I'm aware of.

Oklahoma: 1/year
UMKC: I think 1/year
Buffalo: 2-3/year
Boston: a lot/year
NYU: a lot/year
SLU: at least 1/year
Temple: 1 occasionally
Harvard: usually get an international resident

If others have correction for this list, I'd like to hear them. I'm only going off my memory from ortho interviews and through meeting residents at meetings. I'm sure other schools than those listed above have contracts/arrangements for FTDs to enter U.S. ortho programs

Furthermore, many programs accept ortho residents willing to get a PhD. This also decreases the number of traditional ortho spots.

Still other programs also hold a spot for military folks. I have no problem with this; yet, this likewise shrinks the pool of available spots for 4th-year dental school applicants.

So, these and other factors make it tough for you to get a coveted position at a U.S. ortho program. Traditional American applicants are seeking a limited number of spots. That's what you sound like, UtahDDS--a traditional applicant.

I applied as a conventional applicant and faced the reductions in spots due to the above factors. It's simply a reality in today's ortho application process.

I had to bust my butt to get in. No connections, no nothing. It was brutal, but I've very pleased I'm where I'm at.

 

[LeFilDentaire]

I also tend to think that schools that require the GRE may also be "less" competitive.

 

[AbuABuAbu]

This couldn't be further from the truth. If a program accepts 14 people, they usually interview many more applicants, keeping the ratio of students interviewed/students accepted about the same, if not higher, then programs that accept 4 residents

I agree, BUT, you have a higher chance at interviewing at those schools because they interview so many people, plus the back-door acceptances at a school with 14 positions isn't as bad because usually there arent 14 poeple who have some connection with the director of the program, whereas at a school with 3 or 4 spots, 2 of them can be legacies or something, leaving only 1 or 2 spots.

 

[Jone]

I don't see the logic behind this statement.

I also tend to think that schools that require the GRE may also be "less" competitive.

 

[mayo]

So, I'm sure this question will probably get a few people wound up......but I'm going to ask it nonetheless.

Preface: I know there are no ortho programs that are "easy" to get into. I am aware that ortho is extremely competitive and only the best of the best have a chance. I also have a pretty good idea of what it takes to be accepted as an ortho resident. Finally, I am aware that all ortho programs are good and that we will all be great orthodontists when we graduate.

Question: What programs are considered "easier" to get accepted? What are the ortho programs that would be equivalent to the dental schools such as NYU, Nova, Temple, Case, etc? (Those dental schools are great schools by the way; just a little easier to get into)

Thanks everyone!

Forget board scores, research, community service etc, I hear a donation will help secure you a spot at some programs 😀

 

[jcaxs]

I agree, BUT, you have a higher chance at interviewing at those schools because they interview so many people, plus the back-door acceptances at a school with 14 positions isn't as bad because usually there arent 14 poeple who have some connection with the director of the program, whereas at a school with 3 or 4 spots, 2 of them can be legacies or something, leaving only 1 or 2 spots.

Agreed!

 

[NileBDS]

...

Oklahoma: 1/year
UMKC: I think 1/year
Buffalo: 2-3/year
Boston: a lot/year
NYU: a lot/year
SLU: at least 1/year
Temple: 1 occasionally
Harvard: usually get an international resident

...

+ Pacific: 1-2 (out of 8)/Year (traditionally after busting their butts for a couple of years on the 6th floor).


Great post by the way vorosvirag. Thanks for the insight.

 

[gryffindor]

I don't see the logic behind this statement.

Some applicants are too lazy to take the GRE and therefore aren't going to bother applying to the schools that require it.

 

[vorosvirag]

+ Pacific: 1-2 (out of 8)/Year (traditionally after busting their butts for a couple of years on the 6th floor).


Great post by the way vorosvirag. Thanks for the insight.

Thanks, NileBDS. I was afraid people would blast me for my last posts.

I'm no xenophobe. I only try to point out how the # of spots is reduced because of certain factors.

Just for your information, my parents both immigrated to the U.S. I was also born outside the U.S.

I have no ill will toward those who want to come here. I just wanted to point out that we've got quite a few less spots than initially appear on paper.

 

[gryffindor]

vorogvirag,

Buffalo has 4 spots for US students through the match, and then they take 2 - 3 internationals outside of the match.

 

[Jone]

Or.... such GRE schools only attract the super-gunner applicants that are willing to take the test, so your competition at such programs is even fiercer....

Some applicants are too lazy to take the GRE and therefore aren't going to bother applying to the schools that require it.

 

[Jaybe]

Least competitive Programs: OEC or Former OEC programs.