Hi I am a long time reader of sdn and have recently made an account. I was wondering if programs that are more expensive/take more residents like Gso and jacksonville will provide adequate training in orthodontics? I was also wondering if 400 to 500k total debt as an orthodontist would still put them in a great financial strain for many years?
Ortho residencies and debt (GSO, Jacksonville etc…)
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None of the programs provides you adequate training in orthodontics. They only teach you the basics. It's impossible to become a competent orthodontist from learning to treat 50-60 patients at a residency program. An ortho certificate that you earn is simply a "ticket" that allows you practice ortho. And program like Georgia is a legit accredited program if you don't mind paying the extra expense. You will learn from treating a lot patients in the real world. So don't be picky. Get any job that is available and see as many patients as possible.
Yes, having $4-500k debt is a huge financial burden. So don't be picky....get any job that is available in your area and work as many days possible.
Yes, having $4-500k debt is a huge financial burden. So don't be picky....get any job that is available in your area and work as many days possible.
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Thank you! So basically the residency gives you the fundamentals. Is it possible as a new ortho to work at the corporate offices for part of the week and then work at starting your own practice the other days of the week? Is starting an orthodontic practice as expensive as starting a general dentistry office in general?
Is this volume the norm at orthodontic programs?
I’d be curious to hear from some ortho residents, but I always assumed they were treating a lot more patients than this over the course of residency. Full disclosure: I’m not an ortho resident and I don’t know any personally.
Can anybody give an idea of how many patients you would see in a typical ortho residency? I’m wondering how many Phase 1 cases, how many Phase 2/comprehensive patients, how many surgical (orthognathic) cases, ratio of invisalign vs buccal braces, etc.
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We see 150-200 including transfer cases in 24 mo
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That’s correct. IMO, the best program is the one that has shortest length of training and pays its residents or charges the least amount of money.
Yes, the corp I work for recently hired 2 new grads orthos to replace the ones who quit. Most corp offices only offer part time jobs to orthodontists because each of their offices only have enough patients for a few days a month (an ortho can see as many as 60-80patients a day). To get more work days, you have to travel to work many of their office locations or you have to work for a different corp office. Right after graduation, I worked 23 days a month for 3 different corp offices: Western Dental, SmileCare, and BrightNow. Currently, I work 11 days/month for BrightNow (I’ve been with this same company for 20 years) at 2 of their offices. I work 10 days/a month at 4 of my own. All of the orthodontists, who work P/T at my corp, have their own private practices.
It can be very expensive to open an ortho office (even more expensive than opening a GP office) if you want to have many things like large square footage, highly visible area, high ceiling (means higher electricity bill to run the AC unit), modern ortho chairs and equipments (CBCT, intraoral scanners, 3D printer etc), computer at each chair etc. For the last 15 years since I opened my first office from scratch, I haven’t upgraded to anything new….I still use the same reliable filmed Xray machine, Dome ortho chairs, and paper chart system. My patients don’t really know or care if my office is way behind in technology or not….all they care about is the final treatment results at reasonable price. The patients who care about the new technology are the ones whom I want to treat anyway. I laughed every time someone came in and asked me about the Damon self-ligating system.
So the first office office I started from scratch for $120k. I bought a 2nd office from a retired ortho for only $165k. And for the 3rd and 4 offices that I rent from the GP owners, I didn’t have to pay any construction cost. I just need to bring in my own assistants and supplies. To save cost at the beginning, I carried the instruments and supplies with me to each of these offices. But now, I just buy more instruments and leave them at each office.
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During the first year, I started around 50-55 new cases....so I saw 2-3 patients per day, 5 days/wk. When I started my 2nd year, I continued to treat the cases that I started + I got additional 50-60 cases that my big brother and his big brother started. My friends who did their ortho trainings at NYU and Columbia started similar number of cases. Even if you start 2-3 times more cases, you are still a clueless ortho. At my first job at a corp, I saw 80 patients in 1 day. In 1 month, I saw 1500+ patients.
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The geographic location of the ortho residency will have an impact on what techniques you will learn. I did undergrad in the midwest where every class 2 kid was treated with a bite plate and headgear. (I don't even use HGs now lol). I did my ortho residency on the east coast and EXTRACTION treatment was very popular. Then I moved back to the west coast where Phase 1, interceptive treatment, NONEXTRACTION (Pendex, T-Rex, RPEs, Herbst, etc. etc. protocols were popular.
Learn the basics in ortho residency. And for God's sake. Learn to BEND wire. I'm sure most of the new grads are excellent with aligners, but alot of them (I see the new ortho grads at the Corps) cannot even adjust simple Hawley rets or place 1st, 2nd or 3rd order adjustment in stainless steel archwires.
I had the pleasure to associate for 6 months ---> Partnership for 18 months ----> then bought the entire practice. From the same orthodontist. I learned ALOT from this progressive orthodontist. A mentor during the early times.
Like the advice for dental school. Pick the cheapest ortho residency. If you are lucky enough to be accepted to a stipend paying residency ...TAKE IT. I did. Trust me. Nothing like getting paid to go to residency.
Learn the basics in ortho residency. And for God's sake. Learn to BEND wire. I'm sure most of the new grads are excellent with aligners, but alot of them (I see the new ortho grads at the Corps) cannot even adjust simple Hawley rets or place 1st, 2nd or 3rd order adjustment in stainless steel archwires.
I had the pleasure to associate for 6 months ---> Partnership for 18 months ----> then bought the entire practice. From the same orthodontist. I learned ALOT from this progressive orthodontist. A mentor during the early times.
Like the advice for dental school. Pick the cheapest ortho residency. If you are lucky enough to be accepted to a stipend paying residency ...TAKE IT. I did. Trust me. Nothing like getting paid to go to residency.
