orthodontist

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nanali

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I was looking at the salary on salary.com and was really surprised that orthosdontists makes less than general dentist

Orthodontist 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
$93,246 $113,501 $137,622
I know orthodontist is really hard to get into, so I figure they would make more, but I guess not.
 
ortho's do make more..a lot more
 
salary.com is not reliable for professionals in the medical field.

jb!
 
salary.com is terrible.
 
I would guess that my orthodontist makes somewhere around $400-450 thousand, maybe more. He just opened his third office. Not only is he a great dentist/orthodontist, he is a great businessman.
 
an orthodontist i know also has 3 offices and he makes 800,000.
 
I would guess that my orthodontist makes somewhere around $400-450 thousand, maybe more. He just opened his third office. Not only is he a great dentist/orthodontist, he is a great businessman.

an orthodontist i know also has 3 offices and he makes 800,000.

that is nuts. so they just have associates running them?
 
I was looking at the salary on salary.com and was really surprised that orthosdontists makes less than general dentist

Orthodontist 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
$93,246 $113,501 $137,622
I know orthodontist is really hard to get into, so I figure they would make more, but I guess not.


orthodontist? or orthodontist tech?
The salary looks more like an orthodontic tech's salary to me. I know an orthodontist who owns a house in the hampton's, two private planes, a house in the poconos and one in florida. He disclose that he brings in a 7 figure salary per year.
 
sorry guys, I looked it up on salary.com and that's what it said.. but yeah I've always heard that they make like 300,000 above and so that just surprised me that's all. I wonder how that orthodontist can handle 3 offices? That must be pretty stressful.
 
In Utah many dentists/orthodontists run from multiple locations due to lack of patients and to serve more people.
 
the median lifetime income of an orthodontist in a survey conducted in 2000 was about $270,000

http://jada.ada.org/cgi/content/full/132/12/1679?ck=nck

Read it again. Under the "results" heading:

"In comparison, the working lifetime cumulative NPV, or NPVc, for orthodontists was $271,536 when unadjusted for hours of labor. In other words, an orthodontist could expect to earn, in present value terms, $271,536 more than a general practitioner. When averaged over a working lifetime, this amount translates to an additional $7,146 per year."
 
SELF-DESCRIPTION: I am an orthodontist, 35 years old. I've been out practicing for 5 years. My practice grossed $1.35 million last year. My overhead is 50%, so that means I made around $650K. When I bought my practice, it grossed $450K. It takes a lot of effort to grow your practice (with God's blessing, too!). My goal for the next 5 years is to produce $2.5 million.

LOVE WHAT YOU DO: Who made the comment you need to love what you do? GOOD POST! I have some friends that are dentists that make more than me. Most make less. I have friends that are plastic surgeons, but I don't know what they make... probably a little more. We enjoy the same luxuries: private schools for our kids, country club memberships, lake houses, boats, houses on the country club, traveling, etc. THE BIG DIFFERENCE: the plastic surgeons work a 'heckuva' lot more than me. I work 32 hours per week, M-Th only. I have virtually no "emergency call" to take. I employ 10 women in my office. What a super crew I have! They take turns taking home the "emergency cell phone" and will get after hours calls on it occaisionally that they usually coach the patient thru the "emergency." Ninety-nine times out of 100 the patient can fix it themselves and come in during regular business hours.

PLEASE: don't let money decide which field you want to get into. It's not the field or specialty that dictates how much you make, but your personality, drive, and PRACTICE MODEL. I know pedodontists, oral surgeons, and endodontist that seem they have a "money-printing machine." BUT, I also know general dentists that have 12 operatories, 3-4 hygienists and produce as much as any specialist.

As a dentist or dental specialist, if you own your own practice, you can write off a lot a personal expenses through your practice. I would estimate I write off another 20-30% of my income as a "practice expense." I honestly don't know how much I make each year.

GETTING INTO A RESIDENCY: You need to know before the 1st day of dental school that you want to specialize. I was ranked 1st, 2nd, or 3rd at all times during my dental school years. If you want to be guaranteed to get into ortho or oral surgery, be in the top 5. You could probably be in the top 20 and get in pedodontics, periodontics, and endodontics. Just like the medical school match for residency programs, there are many factors that determine who gets in where. I have great friends who started out thinking they wanted to specialize, only to find out they loved general dentistry. But because they had a good class rank and board scores, they had the option to apply to a residency. I have great friends who thought they wanted to do general dentistry, but ended up wanting to get into a specialty, but they couldn't because their class rank was not good enough...SAD. Be one of the former, not the latter. Be GUNG HO when you start, striving for excellence, so you can keep your options open.

EGO: As an orthodontist, I feel you have to be humble. If you want to be a "big doctor," you may want to be a physician. As a general stereotype (I know this is wrong, but...) my physician friends have bigger egos. I feel that acting like a "big doctor" turns people off. Why would you want to do that? I ALWAYS downplay my status. But my trial laywer friends, my plastic surgeon friends, my anesthesiologist friends, etc., HAVE noticed that I'm off on Fridays, spending time with my wife and 3 year old, spending time with my 5,8,9 year olds at school. I can end my work day at 4pm so I can go be the coach of my sons' baseball teams and my daughter's soccer team. I think God wants us to be humble and treat others as equals.

SATISFACTION: I get to know my patients very well over a 2 year treatment of orthodontics, 2 years of retainer visits. I get to know the parents very well because I usually treat all three of their kids, and then the parents decide they want treatment too.

MULTIPLE OFFICES: I started out with only one office. I started a satellite office in another town about a year ago. I go to that other office every other Wednesday (or 2 days per month). A practitioner has satellite offices generally to produce more income. A satellite office can allow you to go into another (usu smaller) town and increase your production. Generally, in the smaller town, there is no other competition. A satellite office also makes your main office more efficient. It decreases the number of days you practice in the main city, making people take the appointments that are available. It squeezes out the wasted hours in your appointment schedule. I noticed that last month, my satellite office produced as much as my main office did. I worked 2 days last month in my satellite, and 14 days in my main office. A pretty productive two days, HUH? I'm thinking about opening another satellite office in another town as well in about a year.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE A GENERAL DENTIST OR A SPECIALIST. You can make as much money as you want to doing any of the above. It just depends on the PRACTICE MODEL. Go do what your heart desires! And find ways to make money doing it! You may find (as I definately did) that the marketing/business side of my practice is as enjoyable as the dentistry side. Makes me wonder: Hmmm, would I like marketing/business? An MBA? A Law degree? A building contractor? Hmmm... Maybe when I grow up I want to be in business?!

Also, in all things, thank GOD for giving you the ability and health to pursue what you want to do.

Sincerely,
wirebender22
 
Wirebender 22 YOU ARE MY ROLE MODEL!!!!!😍
 
SATISFACTION: I get to know my patients very well over a 2 year treatment of orthodontics, 2 years of retainer visits. I get to know the parents very well because I usually treat all three of their kids, and then the parents decide they want treatment too.

This is one of the reasons ortho seems so neat. But, don't those parents ever drive you absolutely nuts? It seems like most parents can not believe that their child is to blame for not wearing their retainer or bands and the resulting less-than-ideal outcome...
 
SELF-DESCRIPTION: I am an orthodontist, 35 years old. I've been out practicing for 5 years. My practice grossed....

....
Sincerely,
wirebender22

Nice! When im pulling in $650k a year and have a family with 4 kids.. the boats, country club.. satellite office and all that good stuff.. you know what im gonna do when i have all that? guess..

Well of course.. im gonna find SDN, sign-up, post the obligatory intro message that we all did in order to post.. and then im gonna post this message that wirebender22 just posted.. then ill go have some more babies and get on my boat .. and then go talk to my anesthesiologist and plastic surgeon friends.. then ill go open satellite in other towns, even some in other states or countries..

above all i will remember to treat everyone as if they were my equal..
by the way, my goal for next year is to make 6.3 billion
 
.
 
Last edited:
You have to love anonymous message boards. Turns out I am a plastic surgeon and I only work three days a week while still making 2.5 million! Don't ask me what I am doing on Student Doctor Network pre dental forum though because it won't fit with my story in the slightest! Have a nice day! :laugh:

Although wirebender would be considered above average even as an orthodontist there is nothing that is unfeasible about what they state. Furthermore, they listed a lot of details that would be hard to know/understand without a high level of exposure to orthodontics. I am willing to bet wirebender is being truthful.
 
Although wirebender would be considered above average even as an orthodontist there is nothing that is unfeasible about what they state. Furthermore, they listed a lot of details that would be hard to know/understand without a high level of exposure to orthodontics. I am willing to bet wirebender is being truthful.

either that or its some SDN doof that shadows an orthodontist.. Which "detail" requires exposure to orthodontics? the salaries? the "99 out of 100" emergency treatment?.. oh i know.. the country club part, right?

or is it the part where you have to be in the top .5% of your class? wait a second, he mentioned retainers.. he must be an orthodontist..
 
Wirebender 22, about your note on Ego factor, doesn't your specialty come with as much prestige as some of the other specialties you mentioned above? I always thought it should!
 
Nice! When im pulling in $650k a year and have a family with 4 kids.. the boats, country club.. satellite office and all that good stuff.. you know what im gonna do when i have all that? guess..

Well of course.. im gonna find SDN, sign-up, post the obligatory intro message that we all did in order to post.. and then im gonna post this message that wirebender22 just posted.. then ill go have some more babies and get on my boat .. and then go talk to my anesthesiologist and plastic surgeon friends.. then ill go open satellite in other towns, even some in other states or countries..

above all i will remember to treat everyone as if they were my equal..
by the way, my goal for next year is to make 6.3 billion

either that or its some SDN doof that shadows an orthodontist.. Which "detail" requires exposure to orthodontics? the salaries? the "99 out of 100" emergency treatment?.. oh i know.. the country club part, right?

or is it the part where you have to be in the top .5% of your class? wait a second, he mentioned retainers.. he must be an orthodontist..

:barf: I am growing weary of posts like these.
 
I don't care if wirebender is a real orthodontist or not, his post is inspirational to someone like me who is married and has kids and wants not only to have a fulfilling career but a rewarding one to share with my family. It's pretty much been my intention to go ortho since I decided to go to dental school although I'm leaving myself open to other avenues just in case.
 
salary.com is the worst source ever. Every ortho i know makes over 300k net.
 
You have to love anonymous message boards. Turns out I am a plastic surgeon and I only work three days a week while still making 2.5 million! Don't ask me what I am doing on Student Doctor Network pre dental forum though because it won't fit with my story in the slightest! Have a nice day! :laugh:


how long have you been practicing? what type of practice do you have set up? any partners?
 
Wow, if that's the case, is it worthwhile to specialize in ortho (considering that we forgo 3 years of income and also pay for the residency)?

bls is probably the best source

2005

for NY, orthos make $157,150 vs. the $133,580 that GPs make. there's a pdf for national averages, but my computer is slow and i didnt want to open it.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ny.htm#b29-0000
 
It is hard to find any reliable numbers but I would say that it is definitely worthwhile to specialize. The most reliable numbers I would quote would be those from the ADA. In 2005 the ADA stated that dentist in private practice full time averaged $178,110. A different publication from the ADA in 2005 quoted the 2001 survey which stated the average orthodontist made $279,440 (I believe a newer quote was $292,000). I would say that you should never base you decision to specialize on salary but this is a more fair reflection of the difference between ortho and general dentist.
 
SELF-DESCRIPTION: I am an orthodontist, 35 years old. I've been out practicing for 5 years. My practice grossed $1.35 million last year. My overhead is 50%, so that means I made around $650K. When I bought my practice, it grossed $450K. It takes a lot of effort to grow your practice (with God's blessing, too!). My goal for the next 5 years is to produce $2.5 million.

wirebender22

Best post ever 👍, Thank you for this.

ps: i mean your entire post, not just this quoted section. its just it was a long post and i didnt feel like quoting the whole thing.
 
I am also an orthodontist and I am also 35 yo. Everything wirebender said was true. Since I am in a more competitive market (southern California)I make about the same as wirebender but I have to work more days (22 days a month and I have to work every Saturday). It helps if you are in the top 5% but you don't have to be. You, however, must score well on the national board part I (ie at least 92 percentile or higher). I probably ranked 20th (or maybe lower) in my dental class and my average Part I board score was 94. Doing some kinds of research in dental school would also help A LOT. Some programs require you to take the GRE exam but you don't have to do well on this one.

The reason it is so hard to get in is b/c there are only about 50+ programs in the US and each program only accepts about 6-8 residents each year. I hope this helps.
 
Like Charles and Wire said, there is a lot of money to be made in dentistry. Find the area you love and do it. There are specialists making over a million a year and gp's making over a million a year. There are specialists and gp's making 100,000 a year. You can do whatever you want to do in dentistry. The plus side is, dentistry is one of the easiest professions to make money in. So don't worry about the money, just do what you love and the money will come.
 
Like Charles and Wire said, there is a lot of money to be made in dentistry. Find the area you love and do it. There are specialists making over a million a year and gp's making over a million a year. There are specialists and gp's making 100,000 a year. You can do whatever you want to do in dentistry. The plus side is, dentistry is one of the easiest professions to make money in. So don't worry about the money, just do what you love and the money will come.

Are you a Townie?
 
Wirebender22 you are an inspiration and the type of dentist or specialist I hope to be some day. Great post, very positive and informative.


NYU College of Dentistry
Class of 2011
 
SELF-DESCRIPTION: I am an orthodontist, 35 years old. I've been out practicing for 5 years. My practice grossed $1.35 million last year. My overhead is 50%, so that means I made around $650K. When I bought my practice, it grossed $450K. It takes a lot of effort to grow your practice (with God's blessing, too!). My goal for the next 5 years is to produce $2.5 million.

LOVE WHAT YOU DO: Who made the comment you need to love what you do? GOOD POST! I have some friends that are dentists that make more than me. Most make less. I have friends that are plastic surgeons, but I don't know what they make... probably a little more. We enjoy the same luxuries: private schools for our kids, country club memberships, lake houses, boats, houses on the country club, traveling, etc. THE BIG DIFFERENCE: the plastic surgeons work a 'heckuva' lot more than me. I work 32 hours per week, M-Th only. I have virtually no "emergency call" to take. I employ 10 women in my office. What a super crew I have! They take turns taking home the "emergency cell phone" and will get after hours calls on it occaisionally that they usually coach the patient thru the "emergency." Ninety-nine times out of 100 the patient can fix it themselves and come in during regular business hours.

PLEASE: don't let money decide which field you want to get into. It's not the field or specialty that dictates how much you make, but your personality, drive, and PRACTICE MODEL. I know pedodontists, oral surgeons, and endodontist that seem they have a "money-printing machine." BUT, I also know general dentists that have 12 operatories, 3-4 hygienists and produce as much as any specialist.

As a dentist or dental specialist, if you own your own practice, you can write off a lot a personal expenses through your practice. I would estimate I write off another 20-30% of my income as a "practice expense." I honestly don't know how much I make each year.

GETTING INTO A RESIDENCY: You need to know before the 1st day of dental school that you want to specialize. I was ranked 1st, 2nd, or 3rd at all times during my dental school years. If you want to be guaranteed to get into ortho or oral surgery, be in the top 5. You could probably be in the top 20 and get in pedodontics, periodontics, and endodontics. Just like the medical school match for residency programs, there are many factors that determine who gets in where. I have great friends who started out thinking they wanted to specialize, only to find out they loved general dentistry. But because they had a good class rank and board scores, they had the option to apply to a residency. I have great friends who thought they wanted to do general dentistry, but ended up wanting to get into a specialty, but they couldn't because their class rank was not good enough...SAD. Be one of the former, not the latter. Be GUNG HO when you start, striving for excellence, so you can keep your options open.

EGO: As an orthodontist, I feel you have to be humble. If you want to be a "big doctor," you may want to be a physician. As a general stereotype (I know this is wrong, but...) my physician friends have bigger egos. I feel that acting like a "big doctor" turns people off. Why would you want to do that? I ALWAYS downplay my status. But my trial laywer friends, my plastic surgeon friends, my anesthesiologist friends, etc., HAVE noticed that I'm off on Fridays, spending time with my wife and 3 year old, spending time with my 5,8,9 year olds at school. I can end my work day at 4pm so I can go be the coach of my sons' baseball teams and my daughter's soccer team. I think God wants us to be humble and treat others as equals.

SATISFACTION: I get to know my patients very well over a 2 year treatment of orthodontics, 2 years of retainer visits. I get to know the parents very well because I usually treat all three of their kids, and then the parents decide they want treatment too.

MULTIPLE OFFICES: I started out with only one office. I started a satellite office in another town about a year ago. I go to that other office every other Wednesday (or 2 days per month). A practitioner has satellite offices generally to produce more income. A satellite office can allow you to go into another (usu smaller) town and increase your production. Generally, in the smaller town, there is no other competition. A satellite office also makes your main office more efficient. It decreases the number of days you practice in the main city, making people take the appointments that are available. It squeezes out the wasted hours in your appointment schedule. I noticed that last month, my satellite office produced as much as my main office did. I worked 2 days last month in my satellite, and 14 days in my main office. A pretty productive two days, HUH? I'm thinking about opening another satellite office in another town as well in about a year.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE A GENERAL DENTIST OR A SPECIALIST. You can make as much money as you want to doing any of the above. It just depends on the PRACTICE MODEL. Go do what your heart desires! And find ways to make money doing it! You may find (as I definately did) that the marketing/business side of my practice is as enjoyable as the dentistry side. Makes me wonder: Hmmm, would I like marketing/business? An MBA? A Law degree? A building contractor? Hmmm... Maybe when I grow up I want to be in business?!

Also, in all things, thank GOD for giving you the ability and health to pursue what you want to do.

Sincerely,
wirebender22

that is a really inspiritional post, orthodontist or not. doing what you love and getting paid for it is probably the greatest satisfaction in the world.
 
thank you for that post wirebender22. definitely informative and inspiring.
 
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