I am an osteopathic student with some red flags on my application. I am currently interested in psych, but not sure if I should apply the MD or DO route. I failed my comlex on my first attempt, and took some time off due to it. I noticed there are only 30+ residencies in the osteopathic world, and am debating if i should be aiming for the acgme match. Is the competitiveness similar both routes? Please let me know any information you can provide.
Osteopathic Psychiatry
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Psych is not competitive. So you can dust yourself off, work hard the rest of the away, and apply widely to either or both. Most DO's I'm familiar with as posters on this forum have forsaken the osteopathic sphere in favor of AGME programs. But they're also strong applicants on average perhaps due to self-selection as frequent sdn posters. Beyond the top programs and highly desirable locations psych opens widely to all comers. If you can communicate well and you're a good person to work with the rest is just convincing them you can pass step 3 and get licensed. Programs can't do much with an unlicensed resident.
The best thing you could do is to buckle down hardcore towards the of 3rd year and have your step 2 scores ready for the app season opening. You do that you go where you want in psych within reason.
The best thing you could do is to buckle down hardcore towards the of 3rd year and have your step 2 scores ready for the app season opening. You do that you go where you want in psych within reason.
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I’m not well versed in the D.O. world, but I do know that the DO training match is before the ACGME match. You will have to commit to the DO match (or not), and drop out of the ACGME match if you get a D.O. training somewhere. You should also be aware that ACGME accredited fellowships with ABPN certification examinations will require ACGME training to be eligible. I have heard there are D.O. fellows in Child psychiatry, but the choices are much more limited.
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ABPN fellowships are Addiction, Child, Forensics, Geriatrics, Sleep, and Psychosomatics (C&L). There are many non-ABPN fellowships like community psychiatry, interventional psychiatry, ER psychiatry, but these are not certifications.
As far as pay, you should do it because you are interested in it. I heard Forensics is the most financially rewarding. Child is 2 years instead of one, but it allows fast tracking.
As far as pay, you should do it because you are interested in it. I heard Forensics is the most financially rewarding. Child is 2 years instead of one, but it allows fast tracking.
I'd do allopathic just because I can't imagine all the osteo residencies would provide decent training. A lot of fairly large allo programs struggle to provide solid training- can't imagine that the smaller osteo programs do consistently with even fewer resources and faculty do.
You shouldn't have a problem matching as long as you apply broadly- psych is perhaps the least competitive specialty.
That said, one not often talked about advantage of doing osteo is that if you really want to practice in florida, I'd strongly consider going to an osteopathic program. Unless you went to a florida DO school or did a DO internship year. I'm not a DO so I don't know, but I've heard DO's who go to DO school and then do an allo residency program have a very hard time(basically impossible) getting licensed in florida(they have separate licensing there). Can't verify it though myself but I've heard it from multiple DOs.
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This is not true. There are four states (FL is one of them) that require an osteopathic internship year OR a waiver, which is what most people who do ACGME residencies get. In fact, it happens frequently. Nowhere near impossible.
well that's just what a few different people(who want to go to florida) have told me. They mentioned the waiver, but they said it isn't very easy to obtain and you need a valid reason, whatever that means.
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I got the Resolution 42 waiver (since I'm in an ACGME program). All I had to do was go to an osteopathic conference last year. That's it. Done. I can practice in all 50 states, including Florida.
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A 4th year from my school I know also had a similar story with those red flags you mentioned; they only took COMLEX, didn't have the best scores and applied almost exclusively ACGME. This person received 10+ interviews from decent ACGME programs, although no "top-tier" or California programs. So ACGME is doable despite the red flags. I'd recommend reading this first before you ask any more questions, as it is the best primer for DOs considering psych: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=992027
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I also have come across someone with a similar situation, who failed his first comlex though passed solidly on repeat and had no other red flags. He applied widely and got a number of ACGME (MD) interviews at so-called low-to-mid tier places, and matched. Curiously, he didn't receive any interviews at DO places. Sometimes it appears the DO residencies can be less forgiving, and they also are much more particular about selecting applicants to interview from those who have rotated at their programs.
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I know for a fact that programs will forgive a one-time step 1 fail. Two step fails, or 1 step + 1 course failure, is considered a larger red flag. Time off is less of a problem as long as you have a good explanation. Good explanations help for Step failures too. Just apply fairly broadly (use the rule of 1/3rds: 1/3 reach, 1/3 moderate, 1/3 safety) and you'll probably be ok, although it's hard to say without knowing more about your app and where you may apply.
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You were told wrong.
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I think the only reason for a DO student not to apply to both the osteopathic and allopathic matches is if you're afraid of the USMLE. Of course, it's a very scary thing, so there's nothing wrong with being afraid of it. As I understand it, most allopathic programs won't take the COMLEX.
But overall, why restrict yourself? If you apply to both matches, you'll have more choices and you'll be more likely to find the right program.
But overall, why restrict yourself? If you apply to both matches, you'll have more choices and you'll be more likely to find the right program.
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You're wrong. The majority of psych programs do accept the COMLEX.
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Yes, I received many ACGME interviews. I took COMLEX only.
I don't know if fear had much to do with my not taking the USMLE. Sure, there is the concern of taking it and not doing well - I agree with that. I was originally planning to take it, especially as my school advisor had mistakenly told me that I needed the USMLE to apply for allopathic residencies. But then I ran across a few DOs on this forum who told me that they are in ACGME programs without the USMLE, and discouraged me from taking it unnecessarily, as the chance of being hurt by it was greater than the chance of it helping. Furthermore, who wants to take an additional board exam if they don't have to? There are plenty of other things I'd rather be doing with my life. Maybe if I were applying to a higher competitive specialty, then I might have needed to, but luckily not for psych. So ultimately, I decided not to trouble myself with taking the USMLE if I could get enough interviews without it. And thankfully I'm pleased with all of the interviews I received.
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Agreed. Took Comlex only. Very Average scores. Got more invites than I could do, did 13 interviews or so, ranked most of those, got lots of letters from PD's asking me to train at their place, got some pre-match offers (2012, last year of prematch), and matched my #1.
DO Power!
I would say it depends if you have a high or low risk threshold. If higher, you can sign up for AOA match so you can participate in scramble if needed and then go all in for ACGME. If lower, apply to everything and rank both AOA and ACGME programs. I had no failures, applied to a ton of ACGME programs, and didn't match. It happens. I also almost didn't find an AOA scramble spot.
I applied almost solely to the lower-tiered and "DO friendly" programs. You don't have to participate in the AOA match, but we were told we needed to sign up for it if we wanted the opportunity to scramble.
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I did a couple, but not at my #1 where I matched. I auditioned at my #2 and my #last (this was due to convenience and having free housing there, and needing another elective mostly.).
Overall auditions are NOT a must for psych. I got plenty of great interviews and ranks without an audition. To be fair, I didn't apply to any Ivys (hate the NE and big cities in general), but got offers from places like Vandy, MUSC, Indiana, Iowa, etc. And I'm a very average student. Slightly low step 1, slightly above average step 2, average grades 1st 2 years...average. Good letters. Good PS (I was told.). Don't stress about it too much. Apply and rank with rule of 1/3rds. 1/3 reach, 1/3 solid, 1/3 backup programs.
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Nope. Just COMLEX. Average ish scores.
