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I would like to know to a new DO graduate, what is the difference between an osteopathic residency and an allopathic residency?
Thank you
Thank you
osteopathic residency and allopathic residency
- Thread starter prettymean
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simple: osteopathic residencies are backups. 😀
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LOL 😀
I posted a response to this in a previous thread (click me).
The difference is which specialty board you will be certified in once you graduate from the program (MD or DO board).
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Does one have to do one extra year of internship for osteopathic residency?
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As well as the perceived difference in training between allopathic and osteopathic residencies.
Q, DO
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The ultimate in my opinion is to match MD at a decent program and do a DO traditional internship, which are usually pretty layed back and alow you to go to whatever state you want after with no stupid DO restrictions(at least thats what I did!.....best of both worlds)
LSG D.O.
NSU-COM Alumni 2003
PGY-1 (future gas passer)
LSG D.O.
NSU-COM Alumni 2003
PGY-1 (future gas passer)
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IN2BATE, How were you able to match MD and still do the "traditional internship" I think I know what you are talking about but could you elaborate a little?
Thanks
gator
Thanks
gator
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Gator,
You simply apply to both the DO and MD matches.
Since the DO match is first, you'll match for your PGY-1 osteopathic TY first. The following month, you can match into your MD gas residency for PGYs2-4. (The only caveat is that matching into an osteo internship will make you ineligible for the 4-year MD gas programs). Hope this helps....
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YUP.........................you have to be careful. The DO match is before the MD match. Unless you go after a linked spot, the DO match is just an internship match, since DO residencies require the 1 yr internship unless fasttracked (ie some internal programs) or linked......guarenteed to continue on after intern. If you match in the DO intern match, it will be reported to the MD match. So, you cant apply to categorical (4 yr) spots such as those available in anesthesia. I have even heard cross match systems are starting............particularly in ER where if you aplly DO and MD you will be thrown out, not sure if this is in effect yet.
In conclusion, my advice is if you are a DO and want an MD residency that starts PGY2 (ie gas and rads).....you do DO intern match and MD advanced match (starting PGY2).
Do your research though...............MD neurology will not accept an DO internship, you cant be boarded if you do this. I also heard some MD rads programs wont...you have to call. AS for gas, they traditionally all take a DO internship.
One last trick...........everyone predicts a rediculous anesthesia and rads match for 04 since 03 was tough...................you can increase your odds by entering the DO intern match but not ranking.............................this will let you apply to advanced (pgy 1 year included) MD programs and if need be scramble for a DO internship spot.......................very few ever fill.
Hope this helps,
took me forever to figure out and wound up with a peptic ulcer from the whole matching nightmare.
Your friendly neighborhood DO
IN2BATE
In conclusion, my advice is if you are a DO and want an MD residency that starts PGY2 (ie gas and rads).....you do DO intern match and MD advanced match (starting PGY2).
Do your research though...............MD neurology will not accept an DO internship, you cant be boarded if you do this. I also heard some MD rads programs wont...you have to call. AS for gas, they traditionally all take a DO internship.
One last trick...........everyone predicts a rediculous anesthesia and rads match for 04 since 03 was tough...................you can increase your odds by entering the DO intern match but not ranking.............................this will let you apply to advanced (pgy 1 year included) MD programs and if need be scramble for a DO internship spot.......................very few ever fill.
Hope this helps,
took me forever to figure out and wound up with a peptic ulcer from the whole matching nightmare.
Your friendly neighborhood DO
IN2BATE
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So let me get this straight...
You can apply to the DO match and match into a DO internship year and then a month later apply for the MD match but only ones that start PGY2 (ie advanced standing)? I understand that some MD programs will not accept the DO internship as the first year of the MD residency, but if the MD residency DOES accept the DO internship year as PGY1 has this historically worked out for the DOs?
Are there many MD residencies out there that WILL allow this? Which ones will NOT...I heard Neurology won't. What about IM, and GS? Is it a case-by-case basis or an across the board policy?
You can apply to the DO match and match into a DO internship year and then a month later apply for the MD match but only ones that start PGY2 (ie advanced standing)? I understand that some MD programs will not accept the DO internship as the first year of the MD residency, but if the MD residency DOES accept the DO internship year as PGY1 has this historically worked out for the DOs?
Are there many MD residencies out there that WILL allow this? Which ones will NOT...I heard Neurology won't. What about IM, and GS? Is it a case-by-case basis or an across the board policy?
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It most definatley is a residency-by-residency basis...
Some (more like few) IM MD programs will accept the DO Intenrship as a PGY-1. Usually, you're S.O.L. if you want to do MD IM with a DO internship. I would suggest just do the MD PGY-1 instead (if you did the internship, you would start over as a PGY-1 at the MD institution, thereby making your internship year at the DO program a waste... unless its important for you to stay in those five states).
What I would suggest is to contact the Program Director, or any of the DO's in the residency, to see if the MD institution will accept the DO internship and how it will work. A lot of times, the residency coordinator may not know this information amd might give you false info.
Q, DO (your other friendly neighborhood DO)
Some (more like few) IM MD programs will accept the DO Intenrship as a PGY-1. Usually, you're S.O.L. if you want to do MD IM with a DO internship. I would suggest just do the MD PGY-1 instead (if you did the internship, you would start over as a PGY-1 at the MD institution, thereby making your internship year at the DO program a waste... unless its important for you to stay in those five states).
What I would suggest is to contact the Program Director, or any of the DO's in the residency, to see if the MD institution will accept the DO internship and how it will work. A lot of times, the residency coordinator may not know this information amd might give you false info.
Q, DO (your other friendly neighborhood DO)
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so to be safe.............................call the programs. Neurology as a whole does not accept do internship.
All others, you must contact the programs....like quinn said above, alot of times the residency coordinator doesnt have a clue, so get the program director email from FRIEDA and write them.
I know from experience DO schools (especially NOVA) dont help with MD match, just be nice to the eras person(Tatiana and Cassandra at NOVA).
Do your research early...............lit will pay off.
So: MD neurology........................dont do DO internship or you are a smuck.
Anything else do your homework! (from experience gas doesnt care but rads is mixed)
Hope this helps........................good luck.
IN2BATE
NSU-COM 2003
pgy-1
future gas passer
All others, you must contact the programs....like quinn said above, alot of times the residency coordinator doesnt have a clue, so get the program director email from FRIEDA and write them.
I know from experience DO schools (especially NOVA) dont help with MD match, just be nice to the eras person(Tatiana and Cassandra at NOVA).
Do your research early...............lit will pay off.
So: MD neurology........................dont do DO internship or you are a smuck.
Anything else do your homework! (from experience gas doesnt care but rads is mixed)
Hope this helps........................good luck.
IN2BATE
NSU-COM 2003
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future gas passer
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This is not true. Exceptions are made on a case by case basis. An alum of my school (one year ahead) did her traditional rotating internship in the same hospital where I did mine. She is at USC in neurology. Their program agreed to accept her internship provided she spend extra time in IM. She used her 2 elective months to meet this requirement for a total of 8 months in IM.
Whatever field you choose, check with each individual program as they will work with you if they want you badly enough. Or do a dually accredited program.
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yeah opthobean; there are exceptions..................................but the general consensus is that if you dont do an ACGME internship that covers x amount of internal (is it 6 or 8 months? not sure) medicine you cannot be boarded by the academy of neurology and psych which is the governing body.
There have been exceptions....................shortly ago, a girl from NSU D.O. in FL got into U of M/jackson neurology and they had no room for her internship, so they let her a do a DO internship with some modification.
Anyway, as a whole neurology is a field where if you just went and did a traditional internship then applied for neuro....your screwed.
Radiology has been hit or miss. Anesthesia..................never give a crap.
Good Luck
IN2BATE
There have been exceptions....................shortly ago, a girl from NSU D.O. in FL got into U of M/jackson neurology and they had no room for her internship, so they let her a do a DO internship with some modification.
Anyway, as a whole neurology is a field where if you just went and did a traditional internship then applied for neuro....your screwed.
Radiology has been hit or miss. Anesthesia..................never give a crap.
Good Luck
IN2BATE
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bump
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There is supposedly one NYCOM student last year who lost an ACGME Neurology residency slot because he matched to an AOA Rotating Internship that the advanced residency wouldn't accept. Presumably, he or she wasn't able to get an ACGME Prelim/Transitional Year.
Do your research first, and make NO assumptions about the rotating internship!
Do your research first, and make NO assumptions about the rotating internship!
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sorry; the case I was talking about above I meant to say she was in U of M/Jackson neurolgy...............and they let her do a DO internship; if it was anesthesia they dont care.
Anyway.............................Ive heard the way you can get around the issue is to do six months of medicine, but still I would double check with both program and American Academy of neuro and psych.....................if they dont let you sit ofr boards, youll have to go redo an internship after residency...............so just be careful and check.
Oh yeah, NYCOM does have duel (MD/DO) internships..............but they differ from traditional in that you do something like six months of medicine.......ugh!
Anyway.............................Ive heard the way you can get around the issue is to do six months of medicine, but still I would double check with both program and American Academy of neuro and psych.....................if they dont let you sit ofr boards, youll have to go redo an internship after residency...............so just be careful and check.
Oh yeah, NYCOM does have duel (MD/DO) internships..............but they differ from traditional in that you do something like six months of medicine.......ugh!
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I have multiple questions, but I guess what would be more helpful is a suggestion on a book that has info. to help me sort out the issues with DO's doing an allopathic residency. I just learned from reading this thread that their are multiple states that won't let a DO work if they do an allopathic residency; is that correct?? Would you happen to know which states? I was under the impression that as long as I took step 1,2, and 3 of the USMLE and did an allopathic residency I could practice in any state even though I am a DO.
Any Help would be appreciated
Any Help would be appreciated
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I have multiple questions, but most helpful would be a book/website where I can get info. on a DO doing an allopathic residency. I just learned through this thread that if I do an allopathic residency I will be not be able to practice in a few states? Is this correct? If so do you know which states? I was under the impression that as long as I took step 1,2, and 3 of the USMLE (and of course COMLEX in order to graduate) and did an allopathic residency I would be able to practice in any state. Is this incorrect??
Thanks for any Help I am just confused since I have never heard about this before
Thanks for any Help I am just confused since I have never heard about this before
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On paper, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and two other states do not allow a DO to practice without the AOA internship. I am not sure but I think that the two other states are West Virginia and Oklahoma. In Florida, one NOVA student told me that there were a few DO's who got the license with petitioning and extra money.
As far as the USMLE is concerned, at this point in time, its only purpose is enhancing your resume. Thus, it plays no role in licensure.
As for the girl from NYCOM who lost her Neurology position, I, as a recent graduate, am very embarrassed for our school.
As far as the USMLE is concerned, at this point in time, its only purpose is enhancing your resume. Thus, it plays no role in licensure.
As for the girl from NYCOM who lost her Neurology position, I, as a recent graduate, am very embarrassed for our school.
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Florida-
Many DOs here (myself included) who did not or are not doing the AOA internship can easily get out of the osteopathic internship. Its a matter of paperwork and the support of your program director.
I knew a DO Psychiatrist who did a DO internship and then started over as a PGY-1. He said "I know of 5 people off the top of my head who got the DO internship waived with no problem." The biggest hurdle is to get the help of your Program Director, because they have to fill out paperwork as well.
I do not perceive myself having any problem with the waiver.
Q, DO
Many DOs here (myself included) who did not or are not doing the AOA internship can easily get out of the osteopathic internship. Its a matter of paperwork and the support of your program director.
I knew a DO Psychiatrist who did a DO internship and then started over as a PGY-1. He said "I know of 5 people off the top of my head who got the DO internship waived with no problem." The biggest hurdle is to get the help of your Program Director, because they have to fill out paperwork as well.
I do not perceive myself having any problem with the waiver.
Q, DO
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The only states where DOs cannot practice without an AOA internship are the "big 5": Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, West Virginia, and...another one I can't remember now 😀
I found this book pretty informative (though I wouldn't buy it from Amazon). Some of the information is a bit out of date but it still is one of the best sources of information for osteopathic students applying for internship/residency.
I found this book pretty informative (though I wouldn't buy it from Amazon). Some of the information is a bit out of date but it still is one of the best sources of information for osteopathic students applying for internship/residency.
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OK....................its elementary my dear Watson:
Actually its not. Step one is the most important......................you need all comlex steps to graduate, etc. but you dont take all three USMLE...............just try to do well on step !, if you dont, you dont have to report it. Step 2 is debatable.
As far as the states that require DO intership................there are 6.....................Florida, Ohio, Michigan............I forget the others but most people only care about florida.
Hope that helps..........................
Actually its not. Step one is the most important......................you need all comlex steps to graduate, etc. but you dont take all three USMLE...............just try to do well on step !, if you dont, you dont have to report it. Step 2 is debatable.
As far as the states that require DO intership................there are 6.....................Florida, Ohio, Michigan............I forget the others but most people only care about florida.
Hope that helps..........................
