Osteopathy degree not recognized overseas! What now?

[TunnuS]

786

I am a nontypical premed student-unlike the majority of Indians who come here after completing their MBBS, the primary reason being to make big money, I actually want to go back home to serve the poor and underprivileged once I complete med school and residency.

However, on the lower side of med school applicants, and right now DO or Caribbean MD schools are my best bet. Although I would be more than happy to get into a good DO school, I recently discovered a thread informing that DO's are not recognized in many foreign countries including India. This seems a little unfair on the Indian government's part, considering DO's go through undergrad, med school and residency, a rigorous, demanding 11+ years of post high school education and training while their nationally trained MBBS receive 5 years tops and they're good to practice anywhere. Besides, most mbbs graduates have given bribes to get in in the first place, whereas osteopaths have to get in fair and square-based on their GPA and MCAT's.

Not meaning to rant, I just need to know which schools to apply for at this point. Are Caribbean MD's considered real MD's by Indians and allowed to practice, or do they face the same nonsense "you're not a doctor in our book" discrimination faced by osteopaths. Obviously, I am going to try to get into a US MD school foremostly, but if that doesn't workout, what is the better alternate to practice in India (and yes this is still where I want to practice, no matter how unaccomodating it may be to foreign grads)?

Any and all insight will be appreciated

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[ManBroDude]

You're asking for non-DO advice in a pre-DO subforum? I'd go do a search of caribbean schools + international practice rights.

 

[rubisco88]

Why don't you just go to an Indian med school if you are going to practice there? I know someone from my high school who went back to India for med school. If they accepted him out of high school, I'm sure they'd accept you.

 

[FutureDoc1988]

I don't know about the Caribbean MD schools, but I do know that more and more countries are starting to accept DOs and give full licensure. I think last count was around 40. Most likely by the time you are done with school and residency India will accept the DO degree, but you cant be sure.

As far as Caribbean MD schools, I've heard really bad things about them, especially that if you are failing they will just drop you and your out the money and the time. The good thing about DO schools is that most work with you to get you to succeed and want you to finish. Since you said you have lower stats, I would seriously consider this because I wouldn't want to chance going to a school that drops people for failing without working with them.

 

[Iliketoytles]

Why don't you just go to an Indian med school if you are going to practice there? I know someone from my high school who went back to India for med school. If they accepted him out of high school, I'm sure they'd accept you.

This.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I don't know as I don't have experience, but I very briefly talked to an indian guy that came here after med school and was studying for USMLEs and he said that they aren't accepting to older students at all and if you don't hit it at the right time, you missed your window. He was really surprised because I was starting at such an old age. So he may have missed his window. This may be the one time I say go carribean. How carribean MDs recepted in india? However if you plan to do residency here, that's another issue.

 

[Mbeas]

786

I am a nontypical premed student-unlike the majority of Indians who come here after completing their MBBS, the primary reason being to make big money,

haha

 

[blackbird]

Tunnus, I am not from Indian but I have lived in the Middle East for several years where the sole medical degree is M.B.B.S and the DO degree is not recognized. In your case, a caribbean MD will do. I think Indians would accept it almost as if it were a US degree.

I decided to go DO because I want to practice in the US; afterall, I've lived here most of my life. Unfortunately, this means I can't just visit the empty clinic in my mother's childhood village and provide health care for those people because I'm not an MD.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You can work with physicians without borders or similar program and provide help to people as a DO. I sincerely doubt you're going to want to go to India preminently with 200k+ debt to work for meger pay.
Anyways, an American MD isn't a passport to global medicine either. You need to be authorized by that sovereign country to be able to practice of which requirements will vary.

 

[DrMediterranean]

You can work with physicians without borders or similar program and provide help to people as a DO. I sincerely doubt you're going to want to go to India preminently with 200k+ debt to work for meger pay.
Anyways, an American MD isn't a passport to global medicine either. You need to be authorized by that sovereign country to be able to practice of which requirements will vary.

+1. Many overlook that it's hard to practice as a foreign physician anywhere, even with a MD. Keep that in mind.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

786

I am a nontypical premed student-unlike the majority of Indians who come here after completing their MBBS, the primary reason being to make big money, I actually want to go back home to serve the poor and underprivileged once I complete med school and residency.

However, on the lower side of med school applicants, and right now DO or Caribbean MD schools are my best bet. Although I would be more than happy to get into a good DO school, I recently discovered a thread informing that DO's are not recognized in many foreign countries including India. This seems a little unfair on the Indian government's part, considering DO's go through undergrad, med school and residency, a rigorous, demanding 11+ years of post high school education and training while their nationally trained MBBS receive 5 years tops and they're good to practice anywhere. Besides, most mbbs graduates have given bribes to get in in the first place, whereas osteopaths have to get in fair and square-based on their GPA and MCAT's.

Not meaning to rant, I just need to know which schools to apply for at this point. Are Caribbean MD's considered real MD's by Indians and allowed to practice, or do they face the same nonsense "you're not a doctor in our book" discrimination faced by osteopaths. Obviously, I am going to try to get into a US MD school foremostly, but if that doesn't workout, what is the better alternate to practice in India (and yes this is still where I want to practice, no matter how unaccomodating it may be to foreign grads)?

Any and all insight will be appreciated

http://www.westernu.edu/bin/ime/2008_AOA_ILS.pdf

India[FONT=Garamond,Garamond].
[FONT=Garamond,Garamond][FONT=Garamond,Garamond]Year of Last Request: 1999 .

[FONT=Garamond,Garamond]Scope of Practice: undetermined .

[FONT=Garamond,Garamond]The AOA received a response to its 1998 inquiry regarding licensure of US-trained DOs. The Medical Council of India stated that osteopathic medicine degree is not recognized for the purpose of IMC Act, 1956. However, they did state that a DO might apply after getting Indian nationality and after implementation of screening test Regulation/Provision in the Indian Medical Council Act. .

[FONT=Garamond,Garamond]From what I understand, DOs can't practice in India because there is no provision in their law which allows DOs to practice. Basically, an amendment to a law needs to take place, and you need to be an Indian citizen to even try to make it happen. Unless there is strong opposition from the allopathic camp, it probably could happen, especially since there are numerous systems of medicine in India (including homeopathy, ayurveda, etc). It is a gamble nonetheless, and probably will take alot of time. .
[FONT=Garamond,Garamond]
FYI, there are a few osteopaths in India, but they are allopathic MBBS graduates (hence have allopathic medical licenses) who did osteopathic graduate medical education, and I think they deal mainly with manipulation.

I'd check with the Medical Council of India before going to a Caribbean school. I'm pretty sure they have their own list of foreign schools which are and are not recognized.

Your best bet is going to an Indian medical school. There are private universities which don't have age limits like public universities.


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[FONT=Garamond,Garamond]


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[ksmajmudar]

I would strongly recommend doing your MBBS in India...the cost of medical education is SO much cheaper. You're never going to repay $200,000 of loans + interest if your planning on serving the underprivileged in India...By contrast, 5 years of medical education in india costs roughly a thousand dollars.

 

[physcigirl27]

Tunnus, I am not from Indian but I have lived in the Middle East for several years where the sole medical degree is M.B.B.S and the DO degree is not recognized. In your case, a caribbean MD will do. I think Indians would accept it almost as if it were a US degree.

I decided to go DO because I want to practice in the US; afterall, I've lived here most of my life. Unfortunately, this means I can't just visit the empty clinic in my mother's childhood village and provide health care for those people because I'm not an MD.

I'm in a similar situation since I'm planning on going DO 🙁 I don't know about the middle east but the country where I'm from just hasn't had a DO try to attempt to practice there so there's nothing in the law about whether or not they can/cannot practice.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

I would strongly recommend doing your MBBS in India...the cost of medical education is SO much cheaper. You're never going to repay $200,000 of loans + interest if your planning on serving the underprivileged in India...By contrast, 5 years of medical education in india costs roughly a thousand dollars.

....if you are not a foreigner and do well enough in the medical entrance exams. If not, you're looking at paying $100,000 or more upfront + living and other expenses for a spot in a private medical college.

 

[drgioiadds]

You can work with physicians without borders or similar program and provide help to people as a DO. I sincerely doubt you're going to want to go to India preminently with 200k+ debt to work for meger pay.
Anyways, an American MD isn't a passport to global medicine either. You need to be authorized by that sovereign country to be able to practice of which requirements will vary.

This is true. I'm an american trained dentist with Canadian registration. I wanted to go to Australia for year and practice. Australia recognizes Canadian trained dentists ,but wouldn't recognize my US degree, even though I was licensed in Canada.

 

[blackbird]

I'm in a similar situation since I'm planning on going DO 🙁 I don't know about the middle east but the country where I'm from just hasn't had a DO try to attempt to practice there so there's nothing in the law about whether or not they can/cannot practice.

Yeah I dont know the details with regards to my country, but serenade's suggestions about doctors without borders is a good point. What country are you from physcigirl27?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This is true. I'm an american trained dentist with Canadian registration. I wanted to go to Australia for year and practice. Australia recognizes Canadian trained dentists ,but wouldn't recognize my US degree, even though I was licensed in Canada.

For what it's worth I'm sure there is probably some leeway on a case by case basis. If you obtained an audience with the Australian certification board you probably could argue your way or pass some sort of exam that qualifies you to practice in Australia.

 

[drgioiadds]

For what it's worth I'm sure there is probably some leeway on a case by case basis. If you obtained an audience with the Australian certification board you probably could argue your way or pass some sort of exam that qualifies you to practice in Australia.

Yeah, I could take their exam and not have to do schooling. I just found it ridiculous because even though I was licensed in Canada, because my schooling was done in the US it was not considered reciprocal.

 

[Futureofyourtv]

Yeah, I could take their exam and not have to do schooling. I just found it ridiculous because even though I was licensed in Canada, because my schooling was done in the US it was not considered reciprocal.

😕 really? I can't understand why this would be an issue. What makes the schooling in the U.S. and Canada so different?
I don't mean to be nosy or anything, but why did you do ur training in the States? Are you originally Canadian?
😉 Btw I think its time Canada open up more med schools. I have a cousin in Vancouver and from she tells me med school admission is sooo much harder than here in the States. They have like 17 or so med schools. Totally not enough. She has 3.5 science gpa and I thought that was great! Apparently not over there lol. a 3.8 would be better😱
😀back on topic

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

17 for 30 million inhabitants in Canada. Is a better ratio than ~ 150 for 300 million in the USA.

 

[HotandCold]

To be fair, I don't think (and this is a rather long shot) that DO's have typically flocked to India for work. That's the only reason I can see why DO's aren't given practice rights in India.

In the Middle-east (I think) there was a similar issue- but that was quickly taken care off. A lot of US grads wanted to go work in the rather wealthy and tax free climate of the gulf-Arabian states, so the grouped them under the same organizations for MD's.

I would advise against going Caribbean- unless your stats are super low and that's your only option. Caribbean schools come in all flavors, but across the board they have lower stats than DO or US MD schools.

 

[mashmetoo]

17 for 30 million inhabitants in Canada. Is a better ratio than ~ 150 for 300 million in the USA.

1) There's probably ~170+ US med schools currently/planned.

2) 17 : 30,000,000 (30 million)

vs ~170 : 300,000,000 (300 million) which is the same ratio as 17 : 30,000,000 (30 million) (take off the 0 at the last digit).

It's the same ratio.

 

[physcigirl27]

To be fair, I don't think (and this is a rather long shot) that DO's have typically flocked to India for work. That's the only reason I can see why DO's aren't given practice rights in India.

In the Middle-east (I think) there was a similar issue- but that was quickly taken care off. A lot of US grads wanted to go work in the rather wealthy and tax free climate of the gulf-Arabian states, so the grouped them under the same organizations for MD's.

I would advise against going Caribbean- unless your stats are super low and that's your only option. Caribbean schools come in all flavors, but across the board they have lower stats than DO or US MD schools.

I think that has a lot to do with it. If no one's tried then that might be the reason. I would look into that. Last time I checked India/Pakistan's info regardign DO practice rights they mentioned that you needed to fill out some paperwork and sit for a competency exam but that's it. And that they don't have anythign in writing because this hasn't come up as an issue yet.

 

[FutureDoc01]

Many countries are accepting the degree.


Furthermore, "osteopathy" is a dead word. It is not used....


DO schools award a Doctorate of Osteopathic Medicine.

 

[HotandCold]

Many countries are accepting the degree.


Furthermore, "osteopathy" is a dead word. It is not used....


DO schools award a Doctorate of Osteopathic Medicine.

I think in certain countries "osteopathy" refers to the exclusive use of the extra-medical components of OMM. Like a glorified message therapist of sorts. Osteopathic Medicine does indeed denote something completely different.

 

[EyeDoctorDO]

With the single GME system almost complete, there is some good news. All FUTURE DOs will now have the opportunity to be ABMS certified. And Internationally, they are looking more and more at your specialty certificates and the issuing board. They dont care as much if you are a DO or an MD but do care about your issuing board of the specialty certificates. ABMS (American Board of Medical Specialties) certificates are almost universally accepted and are almost universally accepted as the sole authority from the United States. The AOA has not lobbied hard enough overseas and this may mean the end for AOA specialty boards and colleges as students now have a choice, and will gravitate towards the specialty boards (ABMS) that are accepted. Its too difficult to take two boards and they will choose the one with most benefits from the beginning. Unfortunately, for the current AOA certificate holders it means your Colleges and Specialty boards will wither away as your certificates are not accepted internationally causing a vicious cycle of dwindling DO students entering AOA specialty colleges. Dwindling numbers mean.... less clout, and even a less chance to get our certificates recognized. In a globalized world, physicians will want to be accepted universally, not just the United States.

I wish the AOA had lobbied harder during the ACGME merger to allow a grand father clause and allow current AOA certificate holders to be able to sit for the ABMS boards. This is a tragedy for all AOA certificate holders.... as we age into our golden years.... we will see our specialty colleges and board meetings become a lonelier place as our colleagues retire and new ones fail to come in.

From a Current AOA certificate Holder who practiced internationally for a year.

 

[Goro]

Nice necrobump

With the single GME system almost complete, there is some good news. All FUTURE DOs will now have the opportunity to be ABMS certified. And Internationally, they are looking more and more at your specialty certificates and the issuing board. They dont care as much if you are a DO or an MD but do care about your issuing board of the specialty certificates. ABMS (American Board of Medical Specialties) certificates are almost universally accepted and are almost universally accepted as the sole authority from the United States. The AOA has not lobbied hard enough overseas and this may mean the end for AOA specialty boards and colleges as students now have a choice, and will gravitate towards the specialty boards (ABMS) that are accepted. Its too difficult to take two boards and they will choose the one with most benefits from the beginning. Unfortunately, for the current AOA certificate holders it means your Colleges and Specialty boards will wither away as your certificates are not accepted internationally causing a vicious cycle of dwindling DO students entering AOA specialty colleges. Dwindling numbers mean.... less clout, and even a less chance to get our certificates recognized. In a globalized world, physicians will want to be accepted universally, not just the United States.

I wish the AOA had lobbied harder during the ACGME merger to allow a grand father clause and allow current AOA certificate holders to be able to sit for the ABMS boards. This is a tragedy for all AOA certificate holders.... as we age into our golden years.... we will see our specialty colleges and board meetings become a lonelier place as our colleagues retire and new ones fail to come in.

From a Current AOA certificate Holder who practiced internationally for a year.