PhD/PsyD OT thinking about transition to psych

[occupationalguy]

I recently finished my OT degree and will begin my first job.

I'm very upset with a number of things I see in our field: productivity demands which are very high (95%) at places I've been at, reimbursement being low, and a quick pay ceiling of 70kish with entry level jobs at 55-60k.

I know many of these realities exist if I were to get a PsyD. Do employers pay for an employee to get a PsyD ever? I know some companies have tuition reimbursement programs; maybe I could do my PsyD program part time?

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[WisNeuro]

I've not heard of any employers willing to pay for a PsyD program. As for part-time PsyD programs. There are a couple out there, but they have downright atrocious career stats (e.g., accredited internship match rates, EPPP exam pass rates), which will leave you ineligible for many jobs, and undesirable at many more. That's not even accounting for the 6 figures of loan debt for a job that won't likely pay much more than what an OT will make.

Bottom line, there are really no good options for part-time schooling of clinical psychology at the doctoral level. There are many fully-funded programs for PhD and a handful for reputable PsyD programs, but they require full-time work and having to forgo a full-time salary for 5-7 years.

 

[deleted343839]

I know many of these realities exist if I were to get a PsyD. Do employers pay for an employee to get a PsyD ever? I know some companies have tuition reimbursement programs; maybe I could do my PsyD program part time?

A clinical psychology doctorate is just not something you can really do well part-time. But if you're interested in the mental health field, psychiatric nursing is a possibility and the training options are more flexible.

Have you thought about relocating to a more favorable market? I live in a major city and as far as I can tell OT is in high demand.

 

[occupationalguy]

The problems are immense in our sector: Productivity demands of 95%+ are relatively common place for us, and PT. OTs document off the clock, for free, after work for hours. If we document on the clock that would lower our productivity after all. Our employers don't care, and it's widespread throughout rehab. Many sites exert pressure, usually by rehab directors, to retain patients for treatment well after they are discharge ready. It's fraud. The clinician is the one who loses his or her license, and gets in trouble. The employer who pressures us to up our productivity - they're off the hook.

I don't know if I would have pursued this career path if I had to do it over again. I wouldn't be thinking about this if I wasn't very interested in working in mental health.

We have an average salary of 75k; entry level we are at about 65k. No matter where you go an OT will never cross the 6 figure mark as regular full time staff unless she or he is in management. VA jobs regularly pay psychologists 75-100k. The VA pays OTs typically 50-70k.

I will do my homework and weigh the pros and cons of applying to a full time PhD or PsyD. I would think that my degree and work as an OT would be a good thing when I speak with an admissions representative.

 

[WisNeuro]

I will do my homework and weigh the pros and cons of applying to a full time PhD or PsyD. I would think that my degree and work as an OT would be a good thing when I speak with an admissions representative.

It will help a little, but any reputable program will want to also see at least some research involvement as well.

 

[psych.meout]

The problems are immense in our sector: Productivity demands of 95%+ are relatively common place for us, and PT. OTs document off the clock, for free, after work for hours. If we document on the clock that would lower our productivity after all. Our employers don't care, and it's widespread throughout rehab. Many sites exert pressure, usually by rehab directors, to retain patients for treatment well after they are discharge ready. It's fraud. The clinician is the one who loses his or her license, and gets in trouble. The employer who pressures us to up our productivity - they're off the hook.

I don't know if I would have pursued this career path if I had to do it over again. I wouldn't be thinking about this if I wasn't very interested in working in mental health.

We have an average salary of 75k; entry level we are at about 65k. No matter where you go an OT will never cross the 6 figure mark as regular full time staff unless she or he is in management. VA jobs regularly pay psychologists 75-100k. The VA pays OTs typically 50-70k.

I will do my homework and weigh the pros and cons of applying to a full time PhD or PsyD. I would think that my degree and work as an OT would be a good thing when I speak with an admissions representative.

Your OT work, like much other clinical experience not at the doctoral level, might net you some small benefit in admission, but it quickly yields diminishing returns. It might help you establish a narrative for how you developed your particular interests in psych, e.g. rehabilitation, neuropsychology, health psych, but you still need some good research experience.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I will say that the productivity issue is turning into a healthcare-wide situation, it may just have been hitting PT/OT earlier than other disciplines. Our expectation across all mental health providers (psychology, psychiatry, and social work) at my clinic has been 90-95% since I started. Psychology may afford you more occupational flexibility than OT, though (e.g., private practice, consultation).

 

[occupationalguy]

Your OT work, like much other clinical experience not at the doctoral level, might net you some small benefit in admission, but it quickly yields diminishing returns. It might help you establish a narrative for how you developed your particular interests in psych, e.g. rehabilitation, neuropsychology, health psych, but you still need some good research experience.

I wonder how that works for PTs since their degree is a "doctorate" now. We are moving in the same direction for some ridiculous reason.

"Psychology may afford you more occupational flexibility than OT, though (e.g., private practice, consultation)"

That is a big big plus. How would I pursue research? Can I just cold call a psychology department at a university near me and ask to help with data or collection etc?

 

[psych.meout]

I wonder how that works for PTs since their degree is a "doctorate" now. We are moving in the same direction for some ridiculous reason.

"Psychology may afford you more occupational flexibility than OT, though (e.g., private practice, consultation)"

That is a big big plus. How would I pursue research? Can I just cold call a psychology department at a university near me and ask to help with data or collection etc?

It depends. Do you have any coursework in psychology? Have you taken any research methods and statistics courses? How good was your undergrad GPA? You may benefit from competing a terminal master's course in psychology that results in a thesis to give you the coursework and research background in psych that you will need if you didn't get them in undergrad.

 

[hamstergang]

The problems are immense in our sector: Productivity demands of 95%+ are relatively common place for us, and PT. OTs document off the clock, for free, after work for hours. If we document on the clock that would lower our productivity after all. Our employers don't care, and it's widespread throughout rehab. Many sites exert pressure, usually by rehab directors, to retain patients for treatment well after they are discharge ready. It's fraud. The clinician is the one who loses his or her license, and gets in trouble. The employer who pressures us to up our productivity - they're off the hook.

I'd be surprised if this degree of pressure were as universal in OT as you seem to imply.

 

[psych.meout]

I'd be surprised if this degree of pressure were as universal in OT as you seem to imply.

Yeah, I know nothing about OT, but surely there's some diversity in working environment. Maybe what's necessary is to look for a new employment situation before scrapping all that work which was just recently completed in favor of doing so much prep work just for the crap shoot that is trying to get into a good doctoral program in clinical psych.

 

[barryggg]

Don't do it. Consider a Masters if you are really into the idea of working in mental health. The dedication that it takes to get a Phd is not worth it for 95% of people...it takes too long, it takes a lot of relocation, and unless you want to do research or teaching specifically, it doesn't make much sense. If you look at past threads, a lot of people on here, would not do the journey over again..and remember, a lot of people have to justify their decisions when they complete something. It's not that they are not happy with their career, it's just that they realize they could have chose something easier and had close or the same quality of life/happiness.

 

[deleted343839]

Don't do it. Consider a Masters if you are really into the idea of working in mental health. The dedication that it takes to get a Phd is not worth it for 95% of people...it takes too long, it takes a lot of relocation, and unless you want to do research or teaching specifically, it doesn't make much sense. If you look at past threads, a lot of people on here, would not do the journey over again..and remember, a lot of people have to justify their decisions when they complete something. It's not that they are not happy with their career, it's just that they realize they could have chose something easier and had close or the same quality of life/happiness.

Your point about the time/effort/hassle of a PhD is well taken, but a terminal master's degree in psychology will get you nowhere fast. As to the question of "would you do it over again?" that's been answered in this thread: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/would-you-do-it-over-again.1021698/

There are trade-offs no matter what the solution. A master's in social work or counseling might be a good alternative for people who mainly want to do therapy, but this board has seen its fair share of dissatisfied master's degree holders too.

More OTs are moving into the behavioral health realm and some even claim to provide behavior therapy, so I think the OP needs to take a long pause and look around before diving headlong into another field.

 

[psych.meout]

Your point about the time/effort/hassle of a PhD is well taken, but a terminal master's degree in psychology will get you nowhere fast. As to the question of "would you do it over again?" that's been answered in this thread: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/would-you-do-it-over-again.1021698/

There are trade-offs no matter what the solution. A master's in social work or counseling might be a good alternative for people who mainly want to do therapy, but this board has seen its fair share of dissatisfied master's degree holders too.

More OTs are moving into the behavioral health realm and some even claim to provide behavior therapy, so I think the OP needs to take a long pause and look around before diving headlong into another field.

Yeah, this is why I recommended OP look at other work environments. Not only might the lifestyle be better, but it might allow them to be more involved in cases related to mental health. E.g. if they are interested in neuropsych, maybe there is a position at a hospital or clinic that focuses on patients with TBIs or other neurological disease or injury.

 

[barryggg]

Your point about the time/effort/hassle of a PhD is well taken, but a terminal master's degree in psychology will get you nowhere fast. As to the question of "would you do it over again?" that's been answered in this thread: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/would-you-do-it-over-again.1021698/

There are trade-offs no matter what the solution. A master's in social work or counseling might be a good alternative for people who mainly want to do therapy, but this board has seen its fair share of dissatisfied master's degree holders too.

More OTs are moving into the behavioral health realm and some even claim to provide behavior therapy, so I think the OP needs to take a long pause and look around before diving headlong into another field.

I just meant if you want to do therapy, do a masters therapy degree. That is suggested here all the time.

 

[occupationalguy]

These are some great ideas- maybe I will get my masters and add it on to my OT degree- if I can bill for both that would maybe make me marketable?

 

[MAClinician]

The Trauma Institute (part of Justice Resource Institute) in Boston has a newish treatment protocol called S.M.A.R.T (sensory motor arousal regulation training) for trauma that incorporates aspects of OT. The premise is to widen a person's "window of tolerance" for emotions by training the person to regulate their sensory-motor part of the brain (the arousal system) through OT activities. It looks at the different senses (touch, pressure, balance, body awareness, etc) to regulate responses. Not sure if there is anything similar in your area, but it would be a way to combine your current skills and interest in mental health possibly. Just a thought!

 

[Clinical phd]

I recently finished my OT degree and will begin my first job.

I'm very upset with a number of things I see in our field: productivity demands which are very high (95%) at places I've been at, reimbursement being low, and a quick pay ceiling of 70kish with entry level jobs at 55-60k.

I know many of these realities exist if I were to get a PsyD. Do employers pay for an employee to get a PsyD ever? I know some companies have tuition reimbursement programs; maybe I could do my PsyD program part time?

I have a Masters in Occupational Therapy since 2006 and a PhD in Clinical Psychology since 2015.
I agree with the productivity issues in hospitals and skilled care. For me there is greater flexibility for OTs in the school setting or pediatrics. Homehealth is also good if you can do it as a contractor.

In regards to psychology, there are so many hoops to jump through ( dissertation. practicum, internship, post doc, jurisprudence exam, eppp, orals in Texas, finding an area of concentration and getting skilled in those areas). It's a lot of work. You can do it part time (Walden, Fielding) but it just stretches it out so long. Also finding APA internships and post docs is a challenge since there are more applicants than spots.

Also combining your degrees under one job is difficult as psychologist should avoid dual relationships if possible.

 

[bmedclinic]

I'd be surprised if this degree of pressure were as universal in OT as you seem to imply.

I think its pretty universal in skilled care settings for all rehab staff.
Source: I know a rehab director (good friend), and my wife is an SLP that has worked in like 5 or 6 different rehab places over many years. Every time, 90-95%. She's lucky that she's really really efficient. Even then, she sometimes gets 85% efficiency....but that's enough to not get hassled most places. And she doesnt document off the clock. She documents as she goes with text to speech.

But maybe what you meant is that OP should search for a different setting, like working as an OT in a school. I'd imagine there's much less pressure.
In fact, the flexibility OP might have is doing a school gig and part time PRN at a rehab facility. Less pressure prn/ less pressure at the school?