Overcoming a semester of Fs?

[slrplx]

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When I first started out at a community college I struggled, culminating in a semester of Fs. I took a year off, came back and got 3 semesters of straight As. I then transferred to my state university and achieved a 3.75 during four years while obtaining a biochem degree. My AMCAS GPA is 3.35.

I have done clinical research at a level one trauma center, have a year of cancer research under my belt and have TAed the organic lab at my college. I also have sat on my college's Student Board for two years while being heavily involved.

My MCAT score is 31M - 11, 10, 10

I am 26, and unfortunately had a few misdemeanors back when I was 18 and 19. (drinking, damage to property.. stupid adolescent immaturity)

Taking the sum of all this, I am concerned about my semester of Fs and criminal charges baring me from acceptance. I have come so far since being 19, and I was wondering what the general opinion of my situation is.

Thanks for your responses in advance.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I wouldn't be TOO worried about your GPA. You really redeemed yourself at the four-year university, and I think that at most schools where you didn't get screen out immediately with your GPA, most adcoms would notice your huge upward trend. You also have great ECs. You won't be getting into Harvard or a UC, but I can definitely see a state school or low-mid selectivity private looking your way. One question I have is whether you did your pre-reqs at the CC or at the 4-year university, as your upward trend would be more meaningful if the prereqs were completed at the university.

What worries me a little is your misdemeanor history. Underage drinking is, I think, not a big deal to most adcoms, since everyone does it. The damage to property, on the other hand, may be seen a little worse, as it's not one of those "everyone does it" things. For you, I think it would be important to call the admissions offices personally next spring before you apply and actually ask what they think.

Several states allow most misdemeanors to be expunged after five years; if this opportunity is open to you, I would certainly look into that, as then you won't have to report it on your AMCAS. If you can do this, by all means look into it asap.

 

[Mobius1985]

In my opinion, for US allopathic (MD) schools an MCAT of 31 is not high enough to redeem your low GPA of 3.35, despite the recent upward grade trend.

Other than the clinical research, which may or may not have involved face-to-face interaction with sick people, I see no other clinical experience listed. I also do not see any humanitarian work on your list. The research looks great. The leadership experience is excellent.

The bigger question, though, is the impact of your youthful indiscretions. Though you might have the numbers to make you successful in seeking DO (osteopathic) medical school acceptance, and fixable deficiencies in your ECs, the fact that it took a number of interactions with the legal system (a few means more than two, to me) to figure things out, may go against you. I really don't know if there will be sufficient forgiveness, even considering it happened long ago.

I'd suggest you post in the Confidential Consult thread at: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=421278
giving more detail about the incidents to get a better opinion than you'll get here, as this is the more important of the questions you are asking.

Alternitively, there are many posts on this issue in the pre-allo forum, and since you're a new member for whom privacy may not be a major issue, you could consider posting the detailed version there. I've seen posts about one legal encounter, but not about "a few". Other members with similiar legal problems may chime in and give you the benefit of their personal experience with the same issues, and how they handled it..

 

[slrplx]

In my opinion, for US allopathic (MD) schools an MCAT of 31 is not high enough to redeem your low GPA of 3.35, despite the recent upward grade trend.

I have a 3.7 over my last 120 credits. I have a 3.8 science GPA. 4 years at a state university isn't enough to prove my case?

Other than the clinical research, which may or may not have involved face-to-face interaction with sick people, I see no other clinical experience listed. I also do not see any humanitarian work on your list.

Face-to-face interaction with patients, communication with doctors, observing stabilization cases and conducting dozens of clinical research trials is all part of this experience in the Emergency Department.

I am applying disadvantaged, and that is a major reason for the lack of humanitarian work. I have been working jobs since I was 14 years old. I hope an admissions committee would understand this... I have loaded my schedule full for the last 3-4 years with what I could manage.

The bigger question, though, is the impact of your youthful indiscretions. Though you might have the numbers to make you successful in seeking DO (osteopathic) medical school acceptance, and fixable deficiencies in your ECs, the fact that it took a number of interactions with the legal system (a few means more than two, to me) to figure things out, may go against you. I really don't know if there will be sufficient forgiveness, even considering it happened long ago.

Alternitively, there are many posts on this issue in the pre-allo forum, and since you're a new member for whom privacy may not be a major issue, you could consider posting the detailed version there. I've seen posts about one legal encounter, but not about "a few". Other members with similiar legal problems may chime in and give you the benefit of their personal experience with the same issues, and how they handled it..

I am in the process of applying, so there isn't much I can do about it now. I have been concerned about this, but went ahead with my plans regardless. I haven't had the opportunities for pre-medical guidance like many of my peers and I only found out about this site within the last month. I asked a few med students what they thought and they said it could be overcame, so I went ahead with my application..
.
At this point, I have secondaries in and have yet to be rejected (no interviews, applied late). As with many pre-meds, I'm starting to worry about my chances.

I guess my final question is, if I get rejected is it worth my time to reapply? Or, are my misguided decisions from 8 years ago (that I have clearly grown from) going to stop me from a career in medicine forever?

 

[GoSpursGo]

There's no need to be confrontational or defensive; Mobius isn't attacking you, he's just trying to show you how he thinks an adcom might perceive your application in an honest and up-front manner. Whether or not this method that an adcom sees your application fits anyone's definition of "fair" is immaterial, he's simply trying to give you a realistic look at the situation.

I personally think that *AN* adcom, somewhere, *COULD* overlook your 3.35cGPA to see your whole story. I personally think you *SHOULD* gt into medical school somewhere. However, realize that when an adcom regularly sees thousands of applications each year, sometimes they don't get to see the whole picture before they make a hurried decision. With a 3.35, the reality is that you may or may not get in somewhere this year.

I ask again, is there any way for you to expunge those charges after a five-year period? If you have to reapply, you would probably fare much better if those convictions disappeared. Also, you could consider retaking the MCAT to further compensate for your GPA. I don't think your cause is hopeless, but I do think you may find that you have to play the application game a couple of times before you finally get in somewhere.

 

[slrplx]

There's no need to be confrontational or defensive; Mobius isn't attacking you, he's just trying to show you how he thinks an adcom might perceive your application in an honest and up-front manner. Whether or not this method that an adcom sees your application fits anyone's definition of "fair" is immaterial, he's simply trying to give you a realistic look at the situation.

Sorry if I came across that way, I appreciate the honest reply; that's what I'm looking for. Thank you Mobius. I was just adding facts to the story provide a fuller picture of my situation. I wasn't sure if he understood that I have done an entire undergraduate curriculum at a state university (120 credits). The community college was essentially my high school education (writing, algebra, exposure to a language ect.)

I personally think that *AN* adcom, somewhere, *COULD* overlook your 3.35cGPA to see your whole story. I personally think you *SHOULD* gt into medical school somewhere. However, realize that when an adcom regularly sees thousands of applications each year, sometimes they don't get to see the whole picture before they make a hurried decision. With a 3.35, the reality is that you may or may not get in somewhere this year.

Exactly what I'm afraid of. I may be victim of the proverbial "paper-cut". But, like you said.... I *COULD* get looked at, and I was wondering what the perception of an adcom would be in that situation.

I ask again, is there any way for you to expunge those charges after a five-year period? If you have to reapply, you would probably fare much better if those convictions disappeared. Also, you could consider retaking the MCAT to further compensate for your GPA. I don't think your cause is hopeless, but I do think you may find that you have to play the application game a couple of times before you finally get in somewhere.

Expungement is an option in my state. I have started looking into the process, and I thank you for pointing out this option. This leads to another question...

If I re-apply, and my charges are expunged, do I completely leave out the charges? What if an adcom remembers my application from the previous year? Also, I thought that I was required to disclose all charges regardless of outcome?

Thanks again.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Expungement is an option in my state. I have started looking into the process, and I thank you for pointing out this option. This leads to another question...

If I re-apply, and my charges are expunged, do I completely leave out the charges? What if an adcom remembers my application from the previous year? Also, I thought that I was required to disclose all charges regardless of outcome?

I believe AMCAS asks you to leave out any incidents that have been expunged from your record; if I'm wrong on this, I hope someone corrects me, but that's what I recall. So in that case, you would leave it out of your application entirely. I doubt that the adcom would remember your specific application out of a couple thousand a year later, but if you're asked why those charges disappeared, you can just be forthright and say that you got them expunged because who you were 7-8 years ago is not in any way indicative of who you are now and leave it at that.

 

[slrplx]

I believe AMCAS asks you to leave out any incidents that have been expunged from your record; if I'm wrong on this, I hope someone corrects me, but that's what I recall. So in that case, you would leave it out of your application entirely. I doubt that the adcom would remember your specific application out of a couple thousand a year later, but if you're asked why those charges disappeared, you can just be forthright and say that you got them expunged because who you were 7-8 years ago is not in any way indicative of who you are now and leave it at that.

Very good. Thanks for the advice... Wish I would have known about this a year ago!

Time to file judicial paper work.... I'm sure this will be a great time!

 

[Mobius1985]

The added information of your disadvantaged status due to working since age 14 does attenuate my opinion about the likelihood of an acceptance at an allopathic school. I think schools are much more likely to take a close look at your entire application, rather than screening you out based on numbers alone. This will work strongly in your favor considering the positives you bring to the plate. I am not saying you will get accepted (we still don't know the full impact of your legal issues), but I do think you'll have a better shot than I thought you did before.

Your detailed explanation of your clinical experience does sound great. And I agree that you'll probably be excused the lack of documentable humanitarian work (as working to help your family is sufficiently altruistic).

 

[mbe36]

Never get defensive in this process. It will ruin you.