Overnight Call

[ANCAdoc]

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For my general surgery rotation (beginning next week!) I am required to be on overnight call (5pm - 7am) for two evenings. Please share your experiences with this and what I might expect. Working for that long, especially when they require us to work our normal daytime schedule even on the days we have night call (though you do get the day off after you leave at 7am) seems pretty tough. Is it generally busy the entire time or somewhat relaxed?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Top Gun]

It varies. Some nights will be pretty quiet. Others you might get three or four traumas coming in. And of course you'll get called to the ER to admit patients suspected of having appendicitis, bowel obstructions, or other surgical issues. Also, depending on the hospital you go to, you may be required to do preop and postop notes for a certain number of patients.

 

[raidermedic]

For my general surgery rotation (beginning next week!) I am required to be on overnight call (5pm - 7am) for two evenings. Please share your experiences with this and what I might expect. Working for that long, especially when they require us to work our normal daytime schedule even on the days we have night call (though you do get the day off after you leave at 7am) seems pretty tough. Is it generally busy the entire time or somewhat relaxed?

Thanks for the help!

That seems pretty sweet for surgery call. Usually they make you stay until 12 pm, some make you stay the whole day. Or as one resident put it "There is no post call in surgery." Honestly the worst part of call isn't staying up all night. The worst part is having to get through the next day when you are sleep deprived. So if you can leave before rounds or surgery cases you are getting off pretty easy.

 

[Top Gun]

Yeah, and if its a day on which you have clinic in the morning, you have to stay till noon.

 

[ChildNeuro]

For my general surgery rotation (beginning next week!) I am required to be on overnight call (5pm - 7am) for two evenings. Please share your experiences with this and what I might expect. Working for that long, especially when they require us to work our normal daytime schedule even on the days we have night call (though you do get the day off after you leave at 7am) seems pretty tough. Is it generally busy the entire time or somewhat relaxed?

Thanks for the help!

Wow, only two days seems pretty sweet. I would work hard the whole day/night, because if you leave at 7 am that is sweet too, I had to do q3-4 on surgery with staying until about 11:00 am post-call because I had to do paperwork for people who left earlier! I thought it was a good deal and loved every moment because I didn't have to pull a 36 hr shift . . . heh heh silly me!

 

[Bubb Rubb]

For my general surgery rotation (beginning next week!) I am required to be on overnight call (5pm - 7am) for two evenings. Please share your experiences with this and what I might expect. Working for that long, especially when they require us to work our normal daytime schedule even on the days we have night call (though you do get the day off after you leave at 7am) seems pretty tough. Is it generally busy the entire time or somewhat relaxed?

Thanks for the help!

sweet jesus, i wish i only had two overnight calls (and ending at 7 am at that) on my surgery rotation. as for how busy it will be, no one can tell you that: it depends on the phase of the moon, the season, the hospital, and innumerable other intangible factors such as the amount of crazy in the air.

much more typical is q4-6 call with a 12 noon post-call day.

 

[bjackrian]

Yeah, I start with surgery and am doing 6 weeks of q4 call until 11ish the next day. Followed by 6 weeks of medicine with about the same. Should be a good three months, no? 😱

 

[ANCAdoc]

Wow, I didn't realize that there are 3rd years students doing q3-4 call! I guess I am really getting off lucky here.

 

[Pianoboe01]

Wow, I didn't realize that there are 3rd years students doing q3-4 call! I guess I am really getting off lucky here.

I have q4 call for peds - I can't believe you're having it so easy for surg!

 

[ANCAdoc]

I have q4 call for peds - I can't believe you're having it so easy for surg!

Wow, being the same school and all I can't believe peds has a worse call schedule than surgery. Is q4 call required for the rotation (for everyone) or is that specific to the group you are with?

 

[Pianoboe01]

Wow, being the same school and all I can't believe peds has a worse call schedule than surgery. Is q4 call required for the rotation (for everyone) or is that specific to the group you are with?

Inpatient peds is 3 weeks long, and everyone is required to do 4 calls during that period. For most people assigned to Riley, we have a call schedule assigned to us, which happens to be q4. For people assigned elsewhere and to some other services at Riley, they have to arrange their own call schedules but are still required to have 4 calls total. Call begins at 4:00 PM and ends at 5:00-6:00 PM for weekends and holidays and 11:00 PM for weekdays.

 

[Pianoboe01]

Although, the email was a little unclear. I'm not sure if it's overnight call or just evening call. If it's just evening call, that would be pretty sweet!

 

[mattorama]

Although, the email was a little unclear. I'm not sure if it's overnight call or just evening call. If it's just evening call, that would be pretty sweet!

it is just evening call and they will probably send you home by 8:00...if not earlier

 

[AmoryBlaine]

That seems pretty sweet for surgery call. Usually they make you stay until 12 pm, some make you stay the whole day. Or as one resident put it "There is no post call in surgery." Honestly the worst part of call isn't staying up all night. The worst part is having to get through the next day when you are sleep deprived. So if you can leave before rounds or surgery cases you are getting off pretty easy.

I think the ACGME would disagree with that resident...

 

[raidermedic]

I think the ACGME would disagree with that resident...

According to residents there is no hour regulations for students. Don't agree with it but it's what they say.

 

[deleted109597]

Our surgery chair actually said that he didn't want students to be post call. His excuse (even though lecture on Monday lasted until 6pm so Sunday call really sucked) was that students are not directly responsible for patient care, so it didn't matter if they were tired.

 

[Top Gun]

Our surgery chair actually said that he didn't want students to be post call. His excuse (even though lecture on Monday lasted until 6pm so Sunday call really sucked) was that students are not directly responsible for patient care, so it didn't matter if they were tired.

And I suppose he gave you the speech about how he had to wade through all that s**t back in the good old days, and about how students are becoming a bunch of spoiled babies nowadays.

 

[bjackrian]

According to residents there is no hour regulations for students. Don't agree with it but it's what they say.

That is techinically true. There wasn't enough incentive to get the rules passed for students because theoretically, we don't affect patient care. It's stupid, but it's the way that the rule is written right now.

 

[Shodddy18]

For my general surgery rotation (beginning next week!) I am required to be on overnight call (5pm - 7am) for two evenings. Please share your experiences with this and what I might expect. Working for that long, especially when they require us to work our normal daytime schedule even on the days we have night call (though you do get the day off after you leave at 7am) seems pretty tough. Is it generally busy the entire time or somewhat relaxed?

Thanks for the help!

Wow... thats a light schedule. I had call Q2, and QO weekend for 6 weeks. I was on the trauma service the whole time in addition to Gen Surg, so call every night was call for both! Most learning Ive had to date. Awesome!

 

[raidermedic]

What is QO?

 

[Winged Scapula]

What is QO?

I think he means he was on call every weekend.

 

[Pianoboe01]

I think he means he was on call every weekend.

I would guess it stands for every other weekend.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I would guess it stands for every other weekend.

Hmmm...on second review you would be correct (as qod means every other day). Thanks...I'm post call myself and a bit tired! 😀

 

[abefromann]

At my institution, we have surgery for 12 weeks. I was on call about 12 times, and it was 6am to 12 noon the next day. A TERRIBLE experience. You only have to do two nights of call? Holy crap. You should be doing the m*&*&&f'n chickendance, dude.

 

[Smurfette]

As a medical student, since (generally) your responsibilities are minimal at best, consider your calls practice for residency, where you have to be up all night AND have true responsibility...and still have to make real decisions clearly at hour 30. Call may be annoying as a student since you may feel like there's no reason why you have to be there, but often times, you learn more on call if there is down time/slower pace than during the day when things are crazy busy.

 

[ANCAdoc]

You should be doing the m*&*&&f'n chickendance, dude.

I sure am!

 

[raidermedic]

I sure am!

Dude if I wasn't done with surgery I would freaking hate your guts Heck on OB I still have 3 nights of call left. But then it's on to 4th year!

 

[SLUser11]

Wow, only two days seems pretty sweet. I had to do q3-4 on surgery with staying until about 11:00 am post-call because I had to do paperwork for people who left earlier!

sweet jesus, i wish i only had two overnight calls (and ending at 7 am at that) on my surgery rotation. .

Yeah, I start with surgery and am doing 6 weeks of q4 call until 11ish the next day. Followed by 6 weeks of medicine with about the same.

I have q4 call for peds - I can't believe you're having it so easy for surg!

Wow... thats a light schedule. I had call Q2, and QO weekend for 6 weeks. I was on the trauma service the whole time in addition to Gen Surg, so call every night was call for both! Most learning Ive had to date. Awesome!

I love it.😛

I knew as soon as I read the OP's post that it would be flooded with oh-my-god-you-have-it-so-easy-and-I-have-it-so-hard responses. As present and future medical professionals, we love nothing more than to hang ourselves on our own little crosses. I think it's a quality that is ingrained into the most basic, fundamental principles of medicine.

First, do no harm.

Second, whine about how hard you have it.


The irony is that we very strongly resent our elder residents and attendings that do the same thing by complaining about how hard their training was before the 80 hour work week.

 

[Doggie]

I am doing Q3 on emergency general surgery. Often times on post call, we would round on ICU patients until noon!!@#!@# 😡 What I dont get is that most of the "emergency general surgery" OR time was dedicated to non-urgent operations (ie: lap chole, foot ulcer).

Also, a lot of time is spent on doing stupid stuff for residents that really do not matter:
"Oh, can you pass me the phone?"
"Can you get these vitals for me?"
"You wanna make a McDonald run for me?"

Cant wait for this to be over. Just 3 weeks left.

 

[bjackrian]

I love it.😛

I knew as soon as I read the OP's post that it would be flooded with oh-my-god-you-have-it-so-easy-and-I-have-it-so-hard responses. As present and future medical professionals, we love nothing more than to hang ourselves on our own little crosses. I think it's a quality that is ingrained into the most basic, fundamental principles of medicine.

First, do no harm.

Second, whine about how hard you have it.


The irony is that we very strongly resent our elder residents and attendings that do the same thing by complaining about how hard their training was before the 80 hour work week.

'Twas ever thus. 🙂

 

[mdphd2b]

I love it.😛

I knew as soon as I read the OP's post that it would be flooded with oh-my-god-you-have-it-so-easy-and-I-have-it-so-hard responses. As present and future medical professionals, we love nothing more than to hang ourselves on our own little crosses. I think it's a quality that is ingrained into the most basic, fundamental principles of medicine.

LOL...so I'm not surgically inclined at all and postoned my 8-wk Surgery clerkship until the last minute (actually beginning of 4th yr). As it turns out, they eliminated q4-6 service call beginning with my block 👍

Soooo sweet ...during the whole 8wk, we are only required to do 2 overnight trauma calls, when more things actually do happen at night...

They said the reason behind eliminating call schedule for us was b/c students were not learning much from following the already over-stressed nightfloat intern! Whatever the reason, I'm so glad I procrastinated

 

[DebDynamite]

I think the ACGME would disagree with that resident...

The ACGME actually did pass a rule that students should not have hours exceeding those of residents (hours watch has a link). My medical school seems to think this never happened. The OP is lucky to have only two overnight calls in one rotation. But lucky is relative. When is sleep deprivation ever okay?

I'm finishing my third year right now. My transcript for third year will have 3 high honors, three honors, and one "pass". The pass is from my first rotation, which was surgery, where I was Q3, with 12 (or was it 13?) overnight calls in 2 months. I am actually considering appealing this grade, as I was literally within one point of honors vs. pass (and I had classmates with 8-9 calls during the same time), but it's not worth it. Why? Because I'm going into Psych. My hours exceeded the regulations more than once when I was on Surgery, and my profs all seemed to think that it's okay because ya know they had to suffer, so lets all suffer. Totally whack.

Good luck to the OP with the surg rotation. Surgery is cool, the hours are not.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

For my general surgery rotation (beginning next week!) I am required to be on overnight call (5pm - 7am) for two evenings. Please share your experiences with this and what I might expect. Working for that long, especially when they require us to work our normal daytime schedule even on the days we have night call (though you do get the day off after you leave at 7am) seems pretty tough. Is it generally busy the entire time or somewhat relaxed?

Thanks for the help!

Only two evenings? We were Q5 (that is every fifth night) for 12 weeks and we stayed at least till noon the post call day and usually until about 3...

I think medical students should have little to no call. My experience on most call nights was following an intern that was stressed and barely hanging on... I seldom got anything from it except being sleep deprived and mean. I always tried to dissapper to the emergency department if I could. I had 'friends' there and could surf the net and see interesting stuff when/if they came in....

Call sucks, get used to it... or join us over in the EM threads where call becomes a thing of the past!

 

[MrBurns10]

So for every rotation when you have call does that mean you're sleeping in the hospital? Or for some (like surgery, I imagine) you sleep there and others you only need like a 30 minute heads up?

Sorry for the ignorant question...my first rotation is in 6 weeks.

 

[Winged Scapula]

So for every rotation when you have call does that mean you're sleeping in the hospital? Or for some (like surgery, I imagine) you sleep there and others you only need like a 30 minute heads up?

Sorry for the ignorant question...my first rotation is in 6 weeks.

It depends on whether it is in-house call or home call.

In-house call is defined as staying in the hospital, usually overnight although as noted above, some programs will allow students to leave at a certain time (which wasn't overnight).

Home call means you are taking call from home and occasionally have to come in. I am not aware of any place that allows or requires students to take home call (exception being programs where students live in on campus apartments).

 

[pinkfrosting]

It depends on whether it is in-house call or home call.

In-house call is defined as staying in the hospital, usually overnight although as noted above, some programs will allow students to leave at a certain time (which wasn't overnight).

Home call means you are taking call from home and occasionally have to come in. I am not aware of any place that allows or requires students to take home call (exception being programs where students live in on campus apartments).

FYI, where I rotated for Internal Medicine and Surgery, we took home call. We also took home call for OB/Gyn but I was at a site where I lived across the street from the hospital, so that doesn't really count.

 

[SLUser11]

The ACGME actually did pass a rule that students should not have hours exceeding those of residents (hours watch has a link).

Where is this link? I can't find it, and I've been to Hourswatch.com just now. I am very curious, and would like to pass that info on to my med students if it's true.

 

[Tired]

Where is this link? I can't find it, and I've been to Hourswatch.com just now. I am very curious, and would like to pass that info on to my med students if it's true.

Never heard that either.

BTW, my school had home call on Surgery at one of our sites. Total BS though, because the interns/residents would never call the student, so it was essentially like having no call at all.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

So for every rotation when you have call does that mean you're sleeping in the hospital? Or for some (like surgery, I imagine) you sleep there and others you only need like a 30 minute heads up?

Sorry for the ignorant question...my first rotation is in 6 weeks.

They have already talked about home call vs in house call (or real call). You mention sleep at the hospital. Just to let you know that most in house call means little to no sleep. On surgery at a Trauma Center, you'd be lucky to lay down for an hour. If you are usually sleeping all night and not getting paged at all; then something needs done and it needs changed to home call.

Home call is usually for less emergent specialties such as peds, psych, Family, etc (not to say they might have an occasional emergent case). Something like surgery or medicine/ICU usually will always be in house call (at a major medical center)....

 

[Winged Scapula]

FYI, where I rotated for Internal Medicine and Surgery, we took home call. We also took home call for OB/Gyn but I was at a site where I lived across the street from the hospital, so that doesn't really count.

Really...thanks. Were you at a fairly quiet hospital (ie, I can't imagine taking home call where there are tons of admissions each night)?

 

[DMBmatty08]

I just got done with my surgery rotation today.....finally a 4th year!! By far this was the hardest month of the third year. I took in house overnight call Q4 with trauma surgery and most post call days I ended up staying past noon (most times til about 6 and sometimes til 9). The first week I worked 106 hours, the second week I worked 92 hours, third week 121 hours, and this last week I worked 101 hours. I am thoroughly exhausted and I'm looking forward to having the next month off. 😀😀

 

[Winged Scapula]

I just got done with my surgery rotation today.....finally a 4th year!! By far this was the hardest month of the third year. I took in house overnight call Q4 with trauma surgery and most post call days I ended up staying past noon (most times til about 6 and sometimes til 9). The first week I worked 106 hours, the second week I worked 92 hours, third week 121 hours, and this last week I worked 101 hours. I am thoroughly exhausted and I'm looking forward to having the next month off. 😀😀

Ahhh....just like the "good ol' days"! 😉