Overweight physicians/pharmacists

[Passion4Sci]

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Hey SDN.

This thread has 3 main objectives:

The first, is to identify what SDN forum-goers feel is the maximum a pharmacist/student should be overweight in whatever terms they want to define it in.

Secondly, we could discuss whether interviewer bias is justified in terms of discriminating indirectly to overweight applicants (i.e., not overtly declaring that the applicant is overweight and therefore undesirable, but rather rejecting them on a different, subjective bias) and whether anyone on SDN has been subject to such treatment, real or imagined. Get those opinions out!

And finally, I'm curious to see the overall feeling on overweight practicioners in general. This includes psychologists, psychiatrists, RNs, LVNs, Pharmacists, Pharm Techs, etc.

The reason I'm asking is that I was visiting Pharm schools over the weekend, and I noticed that hardly any of the students, even the non-traditional ones, were at all overweight, even by as little as 5 to 10 pounds. Also, this is a corrolary to another issue I've seen on the medical forums - Should a pharmacist be allowed to smoke cigarettes?

Please, I implore you not to take this is a trolling thread as it most certainly isn't. I am genuinely curious what SDN thinks of the questions which I have directed toward the forum.

As for me, as I am within normal BMI, but on the high side of it, I feel like interviewing next to Johnny 130 Pounds is a disadvantage. Yes, I am "older" and I am probably carrying 25 pounds of MRE spackled to my colon (thanks, Army!) but should I face prejudice as an aspiring pharmacist because I'm 175 pounds instead of 150? As long as a professional image is presented while on duty and/or in class, then I don't think there's a problem. Further, I believe that cigarette smoking as a pharmacist is a little hypocritical, and should be discouraged in any setting that you could be associated with the profession (At home, in your car, etc is fine by me).

Anyway, I apologize in advance if this causes a lot of vitriol, but I am curious.

So SDN, what do you think?

 

[meteor2]

Hey SDN.

This thread has 3 main objectives:

The first, is to identify what SDN forum-goers feel is the maximum a pharmacist/student should be overweight in whatever terms they want to define it in.

Secondly, we could discuss whether interviewer bias is justified in terms of discriminating indirectly to overweight applicants (i.e., not overtly declaring that the applicant is overweight and therefore undesirable, but rather rejecting them on a different, subjective bias) and whether anyone on SDN has been subject to such treatment, real or imagined. Get those opinions out!

And finally, I'm curious to see the overall feeling on overweight practicioners in general. This includes psychologists, psychiatrists, RNs, LVNs, Pharmacists, Pharm Techs, etc.

The reason I'm asking is that I was visiting Pharm schools over the weekend, and I noticed that hardly any of the students, even the non-traditional ones, were at all overweight, even by as little as 5 to 10 pounds. Also, this is a corrolary to another issue I've seen on the medical forums - Should a pharmacist be allowed to smoke cigarettes?

Please, I implore you not to take this is a trolling thread as it most certainly isn't. I am genuinely curious what SDN thinks of the questions which I have directed toward the forum.

As for me, as I am within normal BMI, but on the high side of it, I feel like interviewing next to Johnny 130 Pounds is a disadvantage. Yes, I am "older" and I am probably carrying 25 pounds of MRE spackled to my colon (thanks, Army!) but should I face prejudice as an aspiring pharmacist because I'm 175 pounds instead of 150? As long as a professional image is presented while on duty and/or in class, then I don't think there's a problem. Further, I believe that cigarette smoking as a pharmacist is a little hypocritical, and should be discouraged in any setting that you could be associated with the profession (At home, in your car, etc is fine by me).

Anyway, I apologize in advance if this causes a lot of vitriol, but I am curious.

So SDN, what do you think?

175 lbs is not overweight if you are around 5'10 or taller. You are actually fit.

 

[Passion4Sci]

175 lbs is not overweight if you are around 5'10 or taller. You are actually fit.

A wild assumption that I am indeed 5'10" or taller! However, you didn't address the remainder of the OP. Please do!

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I think there is bias in our society on overweight people. And people do have a hard time taking diet/health advice from overweight doctors and nurses. It might be better, though, if these health practitioners try to relate to the patients while they tell them to try to improve their health.

You may not have seen many overweight students in part because of the age of the students. Pharmacy students are pretty young, and most people tend to put on age later in life (when older, with more sedentary jobs and lives, after kids).

Whether you'd be discriminated against, well, it's hard to say. Do you have any activities you could mention in essays/during the interview that might imply that you're active, even if you're not ready to be a front page model on some health magazine? Hiking, bike-riding, running?

It's really unfortunate that we do have this bias in our society. There are plenty of thinner people that could use more activity in their lives and plenty of overweight people who are pretty healthy. And it's impossible to judge most of the time how well someone is taking care of their health by a brief interaction.

 

[meteor2]

I know someone who stays thin in his 50 and never exercise in his entire life. His health, however, is not as good as his weight. Because of long period of inactivity, he suffers many illnesses, including cardiovascular diseases even though his blood cholesterol is well below 200.

 

[stkyrice]

Hey SDN.

This thread has 3 main objectives:

The first, is to identify what SDN forum-goers feel is the maximum a pharmacist/student should be overweight in whatever terms they want to define it in.

Secondly, we could discuss whether interviewer bias is justified in terms of discriminating indirectly to overweight applicants (i.e., not overtly declaring that the applicant is overweight and therefore undesirable, but rather rejecting them on a different, subjective bias) and whether anyone on SDN has been subject to such treatment, real or imagined. Get those opinions out!

And finally, I'm curious to see the overall feeling on overweight practicioners in general. This includes psychologists, psychiatrists, RNs, LVNs, Pharmacists, Pharm Techs, etc.

The reason I'm asking is that I was visiting Pharm schools over the weekend, and I noticed that hardly any of the students, even the non-traditional ones, were at all overweight, even by as little as 5 to 10 pounds. Also, this is a corrolary to another issue I've seen on the medical forums - Should a pharmacist be allowed to smoke cigarettes?

Please, I implore you not to take this is a trolling thread as it most certainly isn't. I am genuinely curious what SDN thinks of the questions which I have directed toward the forum.

As for me, as I am within normal BMI, but on the high side of it, I feel like interviewing next to Johnny 130 Pounds is a disadvantage. Yes, I am "older" and I am probably carrying 25 pounds of MRE spackled to my colon (thanks, Army!) but should I face prejudice as an aspiring pharmacist because I'm 175 pounds instead of 150? As long as a professional image is presented while on duty and/or in class, then I don't think there's a problem. Further, I believe that cigarette smoking as a pharmacist is a little hypocritical, and should be discouraged in any setting that you could be associated with the profession (At home, in your car, etc is fine by me).

Anyway, I apologize in advance if this causes a lot of vitriol, but I am curious.

So SDN, what do you think?

I'll bite.

I've always been big/overweight myself--and one's physical looks has never really played a role in how competent I've considered any of the practitioners that I've seen on a personal or professional basis.

In my interviews at all the schools I've applied to, the pharmacists and professors have been normal build to stocky/chubby, and honestly I don't think it made any difference in how they saw me, in a positive or a negative fashion. I would assume that they were interviewing me and talking to me about how I'd contribute to the schools in an intellectual manner and not to the hotness factor. Then again, I've gotten over most of my body image issues and don't really care that I'll probably always be on the bigger side. I'm sure that contributed to my confidence and how I performed in the interviews. It also helps that I bought a business suit and overcoat that were tailored to fit my frame and that gave me confidence as well.

If one is insecure in how he or she feels about himself or herself, regardless of whether they're big, skinny, etc., that could influence how the interview goes--but considering that when you're invited for an interview, they have no idea what you look like anyway.

As for what a practitioner does in his or her spare time, it's none of my damn business unless it influences me personally--like someone getting drunk or drugged and wanting to drive, for example. If a pharmacist/RN/MD/DO wants to smoke, as long he or she does it in a place that's designated to smoke, who am I to judge?

 

[sandoz]

I'll be honest on this one. I myself am currently struggling with my own weight, though I am far from the end of the obesity spectrum. A variety of factors has caused me to gain weight, even beyond the 10 or 15 pounds I gained my first year or two of college, and I am now, medically speaking, probably around 30 pounds overweight, possibly even borderline "obese" according to BMI. I can understand the difficulty in losing weight, especially if the problem has been around for most of a person's lifetime. However, once I move into my new "home" for pharmacy school in a month or two, I plan to work towards several lifestyle changes that I honestly haven't had time to make. College got to be too much for me at times, and I stopped paying attention and unfortunately had no one to hold me accountable.

Despite my own personal issues... I will also admit that I am biased on this issue. It is one thing to be 175 versus 150 pounds (assuming you're at least 5'5 or 5'7 or taller). That is about the amount of weight that I am struggling with... So if my doctor or other healthcare professional is a little chubby, I get that, I understand, and I would hope that he or she is at least taking care of him/herself in terms of diet, exercise, etc, regardless of whether he/she might be clinically "overweight." At the same time, if I went to a doctor and the doctor was, excuse my informal language, really fat... I would be uncomfortable and would not want to return to said person for future advice on my own health. In this case we are talking 200, 225, 250.. instead of 150 pounds.

And unfortunately, it also very much depends on how a person carries the extra weight. For reasons that I do not understand and which infuriate me (but at the same time I guess are convenient), people who have known me for a long time tell me I look really good when I see them, and they can't tell that I've gained as much weight as I have.

Part of being a professional is looking like one, and part of being a healthcare professional is also representing the field of healthcare. You don't want to get relationship advice from someone you know is on his tenth marriage. You don't want to get psychiatric counseling from someone you know is crazy. You don't want to get advice on how to stop drinking or smoking from someone who still actively does both. You don't want to get advice on how to kick cocaine from someone who has been unable to do so. And you probably don't want to get health and nutrition advice from someone who is obviously overweight and therefore likely to be unhealthy in the future if not right now. There are exceptions, but as a general rule, these statements are reasonable.


And as for the cigarette smoking... I think it is absolutely disgusting regardless of who does it, but it does particularly irritate me when I see healthcare workers out on a smoke break. If you do it while you aren't wearing your scrubs or white coat, that only irritates me as much as anyone smoking... But it's when I can quickly and easily identify the smoker as a nurse, pharmacist, doctor, etc, it really really really bugs me. And it smells bad. ew.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I'll be honest on this one. I myself am currently struggling with my own weight, though I am far from the end of the obesity spectrum. A variety of factors has caused me to gain weight, even beyond the 10 or 15 pounds I gained my first year or two of college, and I am now, medically speaking, probably around 30 pounds overweight, possibly even borderline "obese" according to BMI. I can understand the difficulty in losing weight, especially if the problem has been around for most of a person's lifetime. However, once I move into my new "home" for pharmacy school in a month or two, I plan to work towards several lifestyle changes that I honestly haven't had time to make. College got to be too much for me at times, and I stopped paying attention and unfortunately had no one to hold me accountable.

Despite my own personal issues... I will also admit that I am biased on this issue. It is one thing to be 175 versus 150 pounds (assuming you're at least 5'5 or 5'7 or taller). That is about the amount of weight that I am struggling with... So if my doctor or other healthcare professional is a little chubby, I get that, I understand, and I would hope that he or she is at least taking care of him/herself in terms of diet, exercise, etc, regardless of whether he/she might be clinically "overweight." At the same time, if I went to a doctor and the doctor was, excuse my informal language, really fat... I would be uncomfortable and would not want to return to said person for future advice on my own health. In this case we are talking 200, 225, 250.. instead of 150 pounds.

And unfortunately, it also very much depends on how a person carries the extra weight. For reasons that I do not understand and which infuriate me (but at the same time I guess are convenient), people who have known me for a long time tell me I look really good when I see them, and they can't tell that I've gained as much weight as I have.

Part of being a professional is looking like one, and part of being a healthcare professional is also representing the field of healthcare. You don't want to get relationship advice from someone you know is on his tenth marriage. You don't want to get psychiatric counseling from someone you know is crazy. You don't want to get advice on how to stop drinking or smoking from someone who still actively does both. You don't want to get advice on how to kick cocaine from someone who has been unable to do so. And you probably don't want to get health and nutrition advice from someone who is obviously overweight and therefore likely to be unhealthy in the future if not right now. There are exceptions, but as a general rule, these statements are reasonable.


And as for the cigarette smoking... I think it is absolutely disgusting regardless of who does it, but it does particularly irritate me when I see healthcare workers out on a smoke break. If you do it while you aren't wearing your scrubs or white coat, that only irritates me as much as anyone smoking... But it's when I can quickly and easily identify the smoker as a nurse, pharmacist, doctor, etc, it really really really bugs me. And it smells bad. ew.

I'm sorry for your troubles, sandoz. I was pretty healthy in undergrad, but now that I'm in grad school, it's been harder to keep myself healthy. I gained a little bit of weight, although fortunately I am still in the normal range. I still eat pretty well; I just wish I had more time to exercise, like I used to.

One thing that I think we should all keep in mind, though, is that people make decisions in regards to their health, and even if we disagree with them, we can't make them change. You can encourage people to walk more, quit smoking, drink less, and eat better. However, we all get to decide for ourselves what we want to do (provided it's legal). Sometimes it's a choice between one thing or the other; a person can exercise more but spend less time with friends, and they may be at a time in their life that they need the support of their friends more.

Healthy habits don't guarantee a good life. They increase your chances, but nothing's definite. I just think as future pharmacists, it might be easier on ourselves to realize that everyone gets to make their own choices. You can encourage, but at the end of the day, you aren't able to be force someone to exercise, quit smoking, or take their pills correctly.

 

[luwical]

Gaining weight is a sign that you are taking too much time off. Add some extra hours to your work schedule. Spend more time cleaning your house. This will give you the opportunity to increase your muscular strength by lifting those heavy couches. Park your car at least half a mile from your classes or work place.

By doing all these activities, you must have saved a lot of money that will be paid at the gym.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Fatties can relate with other fatties, maybe share a candy bar during the consultation...mmm chocolate.....

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Gaining weight is a sign that you are taking too much time off. Add some extra hours to your work schedule. Spend more time cleaning your house. This will give you the opportunity to increase your muscular strength by lifting those heavy couches. Park your car at least half a mile from your classes or work place.

By doing all these activities, you must have saved a lot of money that will be paid at the gym.

So my graduate studies deal somewhat with obesity, so I've read quite a bit on it, and I've also taken some classes.

Gaining weight is multi-factorial, and we don't understand all that goes into whether a person becomes overweight or not. While to some extent it is the simple formula of how much you eat vs. your activity level, a lot more goes into it than that. Your brain regulates your weight, somewhat like a thermostat in a house regulates the temperature. But it does more when it regulates increasing back to your set weight than it does to decrease to it, if that makes any sense.

I think your best bet is when you gain a few pounds, change whatever you need to to get back to your original weight. It's a lot easier to lose five pounds and change your brain's set point down to that weight than to lose 35 pounds. However, sometimes, life happens. If you're in a really stressful point in your life, you might not have the time and energy to put into losing weight.

That all said, it still bugs me when I hear people complain about being overweight and then eating ice cream for breakfast. Either be happy the weight you are, or try and do something about it!

 

[Passion4Sci]

Excellent replies everyone, so far! I'm happy it's turning out to at least be a somewhat lively conversation.

As far as me personally, I am very active, and I don't really eat that badly. My wife and I play tennis 3 times weekly, we walk together in the evenings almost every night, and as a remnant of my Army days, I do push-ups, sit-ups and other muscle strength endurance type activities 3 times weekly.There's absolutely ZERO junk food in our house, since if you can't have it, you can't eat it. That means no ice cream, no chocolate, no cookies. None of that type of stuff. Only one 6-pack of soda in the 'fridge at a time, and it's always Zero/diet, so nothing with insane sugar. I do not smoke, and I drink only wine, and that quite sparingly.

I've gone so far as to track my caloric intake (including fat, sat fat, carb, etc) with an add-on Livestrong on my iPhone, and by all rights, I should be losing weight, yet I am consistently 175-180, never below, never above, and I simply cannot shake it. I know I'm "normal" by BMI standards, but I've got that dreaded spare tire, and it makes wearing a suit with a white lab coat rather uncomfortable. It's baffling, and to go along with what Farscapegirl has been saying, it's very complex.

If I was 180 pounds and eating ice cream, beer, pizza, Taco Bell, Chipotle, In'n'Out, ad nauseum then I could understand it! But I don't... I simply don't. I am concerned because everyone in my family is overweight (and started becoming overweight around 26/27, my age) despite being very actively healthy. I am worried that by the time I finish Pharm school, I'll be 31 and weigh 200 lbs. instead of 175-1800, and 200 is a much less "desirable" number than even 175 lbs. is.

Gaining weight is a sign that you are taking too much time off. Add some extra hours to your work schedule. Spend more time cleaning your house. This will give you the opportunity to increase your muscular strength by lifting those heavy couches. Park your car at least half a mile from your classes or work place.

I do things like this - I work myself pretty hard on a daily basis, not leaving alot of time for "snacking due to boredom". I always park my car in the farthest spot that I can find in any parking lot, and if at all possible, I do errands close to my house so I can ride my bike/rollerblade. It's great advice!

I also believe what Meteor2 said is very important to remember. Being HEALTHY and being THIN are two very different things that society tends to just lump together - Clearly you're healthy if you have a BMI of 7, right? In every physical I take, I am textbook healthy for my age. Yet I have about 15-20 pounds of weight I can't shake, and it does show in my gut. Nowhere else, just my gut, and that can be really annoying, again, for wearing professional clothing. In the Army, it didn't matter, because it was underneath 100 pounds of gear, a rifle, etc. And I can feel the sands of time slowing packing more weight on, despite my best efforts to fight it.

 

[luwical]

Passion4Sci,

your post illuminated an extra point that I forgot to mention.

Genetics !

If your genetic makeup makes you susceptible to being overweight, my advice might not make a difference. You are taking right approach by tracking your caloric intake, etc.


However, being healthy means being able to try any challenge without the fear that your body would be the negative factor...

 

[Passion4Sci]

Passion4Sci,

your post illuminated an extra point that I forgot to mention.

Genetics !

If your genetic makeup makes you susceptible to being overweight, my advice might not make a difference. You are taking right approach by tracking your caloric intake, etc.


However, being healthy means being able to try any challenge without the fear that your body would be the negative factor...

Indeed, we'd all be remiss not to remember that genetics is very important in several things, like how my father is 83 years old and has smoked 3 packs a day since his 18th birthday, and still has both of his lungs and plays golf every day. Overweight, yes. Healthy, yes.

It's weird. I can run 3 miles in 19 minutes still, it's slipped from my Army days of pure aerobic awesomeness, ticking off 5 minute miles like no problem, but I am still in excellent shape cardiovascularly. But my waistline tells a different story and I hate being lumped (no pun intended) in with folks with less self-control over their appetite!

 

[Jdario86]

I think the OP brought up a really interesting point. The physical appearances and personal lifestyles of clinicians can sometimes impact how patients and other people see them. Sometimes it can impact how serious patients take their clinicians. For example, my former pediatrician would always lecture me on the importance of exercising. I did not take my pediatrician seriously because she was not in shape.

Other things like smoking can also negatively impact a pharmacist's reputation. My former pharmacist manager smoked cigarrettes and the other pharmacist would always criticize my pharmacist manager for it.

These previous experiences actually impacted me to start exercising regularly and to quit smoking before i start pharm school. However, when it comes down to it, I think job performance is the most important factor. I personally would take a pharmacist (regardless of their weight) who can perform efficiently much more seriously than one who is has an amazing physique and performs sub-par. On the same accord, I do believe that some people puts a stigma on those who can't practice what they preach.

And to answer the OP's question, I consider anyone with a BMI > 50 is overweight. But that's just my personal opinion.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Indeed, we'd all be remiss not to remember that genetics is very important in several things, like how my father is 83 years old and has smoked 3 packs a day since his 18th birthday, and still has both of his lungs and plays golf every day. Overweight, yes. Healthy, yes.

It's weird. I can run 3 miles in 19 minutes still, it's slipped from my Army days of pure aerobic awesomeness, ticking off 5 minute miles like no problem, but I am still in excellent shape cardiovascularly. But my waistline tells a different story and I hate being lumped (no pun intended) in with folks with less self-control over their appetite!

Hmm... it seems like you're doing all the right things to lose the spare tire. Unfortunately, it's hard to control where you gain/lose weight from, as well. So even if you end up losing weight, it might end up from being less desirable places.

It might be time at some point to go to the doctor, just to make sure there's not something wrong that's preventing you from losing the weight. If it really bothers you, you might even consider plastic surgery at some point. Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for it, using it to lose fat that isn't going away through normal means.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I think the OP brought up a really interesting point. The physical appearances and personal lifestyles of clinicians can sometimes impact how patients and other people see them. Sometimes it can impact how serious patients take their clinicians. For example, my former pediatrician would always lecture me on the importance of exercising. I did not take my pediatrician seriously because she was not in shape.

Other things like smoking can also negatively impact a pharmacist's reputation. My former pharmacist manager smoked cigarrettes and the other pharmacist would always criticize my pharmacist manager for it.

These previous experiences actually impacted me to start exercising regularly and to quit smoking before i start pharm school. However, when it comes down to it, I think job performance is the most important factor. I personally would take a pharmacist (regardless of their weight) who can perform efficiently much more seriously than one who is has an amazing physique and performs sub-par. On the same accord, I do believe that some people puts a stigma on those who can't practice what they preach.

And to answer the OP's question, I consider anyone with a BMI > 50 is overweight. But that's just my personal opinion.

Jdario86, out of curiosity, would you have taken your pediatrician more seriously if he/she had said something along the lines of the importance of exercise and setting up a regime when you're young, because it's harder to do when you're older?

Oh, and congrats on quitting smoking.

 

[Jdario86]

Jdario86, out of curiosity, would you have taken your pediatrician more seriously if he/she had said something along the lines of the importance of exercise and setting up a regime when you're young, because it's harder to do when you're older?

Oh, and congrats on quitting smoking.

Thanks! I've been 5 weeks smoke-free!

That's interesting. Yes - If my pediatrician said something along those lines, I would have taken the advice more seriously.

However, I think this would be a totally different situation, if the patient and clinician are within the same age range (hypothetically speaking)

 

[SHC1984]

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS do at least 50 sit ups before going to bed...that plus Pilates (The Hundred is my favorite) helps a lot with keeping in shape. Most people do not have time to spend 3 hours a day in the gym, so just do simple things like squats, sit ups, and pilates everyday...I like to do mine before I go to bed but I would recommend doing them at least once a day. Doesn't take up much time at all. 👍 Don't ever get off this routine...I got off for 6 months before and gain 5 pounds really quick! 😱 stick with this routine forever!!!

 

[Passion4Sci]

Hmm... it seems like you're doing all the right things to lose the spare tire. Unfortunately, it's hard to control where you gain/lose weight from, as well. So even if you end up losing weight, it might end up from being less desirable places.

It might be time at some point to go to the doctor, just to make sure there's not something wrong that's preventing you from losing the weight. If it really bothers you, you might even consider plastic surgery at some point. Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for it, using it to lose fat that isn't going away through normal means.

I would never even consider wasting money on something so frivolous as plastic surgery! Just my personal opinion, but I think that sort of cosmetic surgery for pure aesthetics is silly in almost every case.

I'm not too concerned about how it is right now, but rather, in about 3 years, as I'm not getting any younger, and undoubtedly my basal metabolism is decreasing.

Thanks! I've been 5 weeks smoke-free!

That's awesome, congratulations. I bet kicking that habit has been so incredibly hard... What steps are you taking to help you break it?

And Jdario, you consider, say, a 32 BMI to be not overweight?

 

[Passion4Sci]

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS do at least 50 sit ups before going to bed...that plus Pilates (The Hundred is my favorite) helps a lot with keeping in shape. Most people do not have time to spend 3 hours a day in the gym, so just do simple things like squats, sit ups, and pilates everyday...I like to do mine before I go to bed but I would recommend doing them at least once a day. Doesn't take up much time at all. 👍 Don't ever get off this routine...I got off for 6 months before and gain 5 pounds really quick! 😱 stick with this routine forever!!!

No offense, but you didn't reply to the thread at all.

This is not about personal fitness plans, even though I did speak about mine a little bit in a side-bar conversation, which I shouldn't have done I suppose (Should have done it in PM).

 

[Jdario86]

I would never even consider wasting money on something so frivolous as plastic surgery! Just my personal opinion, but I think that sort of cosmetic surgery for pure aesthetics is silly in almost every case.

I'm not too concerned about how it is right now, but rather, in about 3 years, as I'm not getting any younger, and undoubtedly my basal metabolism is decreasing.



That's awesome, congratulations. I bet kicking that habit has been so incredibly hard... What steps are you taking to help you break it?

And Jdario, you consider, say, a 32 BMI to be not overweight?

Thanks. My doctor put me on chantix and instead of channeling my stress to smoking, I would go out running.

I consider a 50 BMI to be average. so I think a 32 BMI is absolutely not overweight.

 

[Carboxide]

Thanks. My doctor put me on chantix and instead of channeling my stress to smoking, I would go out running.

I consider a 50 BMI to be average. so I think a 32 BMI is absolutely not overweight.

WHAT???? Do you have ANY idea what BMI is??? Normal weight is 18.5-24.9; overweight is 25-29.9 and anything 30 or over is obese.

50 is morbidly obese.

 

[sandoz]

Thanks. My doctor put me on chantix and instead of channeling my stress to smoking, I would go out running.

I consider a 50 BMI to be average. so I think a 32 BMI is absolutely not overweight.

Are we all talking about the same BMI here? Body Mass Index? I was under the impression that anything over 25 was considered overweight... over 30 was obese and over 35 was morbidly obese.

I used a BMI calculator and I (at 5'2) would have to weigh about 275 pounds to get a BMI of 50. I cannot even fathom that, and it is definitely nowhere near average even if you are being overly permissive in your idea of body shape and size.

According to BMI calculations, even if I was a full foot taller (6'2, my boyfriend's height), I would still be morbidly obese if I weighed 275, with a BMI of around 35.3

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I would never even consider wasting money on something so frivolous as plastic surgery! Just my personal opinion, but I think that sort of cosmetic surgery for pure aesthetics is silly in almost every case.

I'm not too concerned about how it is right now, but rather, in about 3 years, as I'm not getting any younger, and undoubtedly my basal metabolism is decreasing.

I mostly agree with you with the plastic surgery part, even though it was my suggestion. However, I think that in some cases, if you're very self-conscious of something, so much so that it's preventing you from doing something you want (and you've already tried other ways of dealing with it), then plastic surgery's something that should be considered.

Plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons can be not so good, but every once in awhile, it seems to be helpful. Example of the not-so-good case: I had a friend who hated her large nose, felt self-conscious about it, got surgery, and then missed her old nose! However, I also knew a guy who had gynecomastia. Even with lots of exercise, he still had the problem. But after having surgery, he didn't have that self-conscious thing anymore.

Just wanted to clarify...

 

[Jdario86]

Mmm yeah. Correction - according to this source (http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/av.htm), a 50th percentile BMI is considered to be average in the u.s. I was going by percentiles.

But according to this one from the national heart lung institute (http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/), a BMI > 30 is overweight.

I got confused btw percentiles and the actual index value. so yeah, anything over 30, is considered overweight.

I never take those bmi scales seriously though because things like bone density are not taken into account.

 

[SHC1984]

No offense, but you didn't reply to the thread at all.

This is not about personal fitness plans, even though I did speak about mine a little bit in a side-bar conversation, which I shouldn't have done I suppose (Should have done it in PM).

My apologies. I will reply now.

Survival of the fittest.

Not everyone is created equal. Some people are smarter, some people are better looking, some people have nicer bodies, some people have more money (no loans! thats something I do not have.🙄) etc etc.

Yes, overweight people will be discrimmated against b/c society believes overweight people are lazy, sloppy, etc. (whether or not its true I do not know b/c I don't know any overweight people) People will think "why do I want you as a pharmacist, if you don't even care about your body enough to make yourself healthy?" I believe thats a very legit question...if you care about health, staying healthly, educating others to stay healthy etc. etc. (like a pharmacist should) don't you think its a bit hypocritical that you yourself can't stay healther by going to the gym and losing weight?

Not trying to preach or anything but I am just trying to say what most people "think" when they see an overweight doctor or pharmacist....they just think If you don't care about your body enough to lose weight then I am sure you won't care about my health either...🙄 Just like if I was to go to my dentist's office right now, I will see someone will beautiful white teeth...not someone with black, decaying teeth with bad breath! I mean come on now!

 

[Passion4Sci]

My apologies. I will reply now.

Survival of the fittest.

Not everyone is created equal. Some people are smarter, some people are better looking, some people have nicer bodies, some people have more money (no loans! thats something I do not have.🙄) etc etc.

Yes, overweight people will be discrimmated against b/c society believes overweight people are lazy, sloppy, etc. (whether or not its true I do not know b/c I don't know any overweight people) People will think "why do I want you as a pharmacist, if you don't even care about your body enough to make yourself healthy?" I believe thats a very legit question...if you care about health, staying healthly, educating others to stay healthy etc. etc. (like a pharmacist should) don't you think its a bit hypocritical that you yourself can't stay healther by going to the gym and losing weight?

Not trying to preach or anything but I am just trying to say what most people "think" when they see an overweight doctor or pharmacist....they just think If you don't care about your body enough to lose weight then I am sure you won't care about my health either...🙄 Just like if I was to go to my dentist's office right now, I will see someone will beautiful white teeth...not someone with black, decaying teeth with bad breath! I mean come on now!

A couple of points that I take issue with in your post.

First of all, your comparison between a dentist with beautiful, pearly whites vs. one with black, decaying teeth is a the type of hyperbole that ruins rational discussions. We're not discussing in this thread whether someone who weighs 500 pounds should be practicing medicine or pharmacy, but your comparison is tantamount to such a claim. My question, framed in the topic, would be, "Is it okay for that dentist to have a couple of cavities, one incisor longer than the other, or be missing a molar?" These small imperfections are more what we're after, not the huge elephant in the backyard.

Second, this statement,

if you care about health, staying healthly, educating others to stay healthy etc. etc. (like a pharmacist should) don't you think its a bit hypocritical that you yourself can't stay healther by going to the gym and losing weight?

is horribly short-sighted. You're assuming that Person A who is, let's say, 30 pounds over their ideal weight (In terms of BMI, which is debatable whether it is perfectly accurate or not...), is exercising, and overall leads a healthy lifestyle, but simply has genetic coding that instructs the body, for example, to retain X amount of fat in X part of the body (a process not completely understood yet) can just walk into a gym, sit down at a bike, or stand at a treadmill, and whisk away their pounds. It does not work like that for a lot of people, myself included. If you wanted to, I'd line up with you on a track and we could probably go mile for mile for quite some time, as I still run regularly, and play tennis for upward of 3 hours at a time, regularly. Yet, I AM, technically, overweight according to the BMI! And yes, I have a small gut. But I'm fit, cardiovascularly. My Vo2Max is awesome, and as Will Smith says, "my cardio is infinite." Big Willy style, however, is not "all up in it." Sadly. Moving on...

It seems as though you skipped right over everything else and centered RIGHT in on obesity, which is not what we're discussing here! Survival of the fittest, as wonderful of a theory as it may have been in the mid 1800s, and still wonderful for many animals, does not apply today in modern society, and to bring that up as a hypothesis statement as you did is disingenuous. It is survival of the fittest that a thinner, more attractive guy got into <insert program of choice here> over me? Even though, mile for mile, I could walk in his shoes on a track? I believe this is a naive, foolhardy line of thinking. Our technology is what makes us - "Survival of the fittest" goes right out the window as soon as you start bringing modern technology into the equation. According to your rationale, I suppose we should stop dispensing Albuterol to asthmatics so they can die, and not thin out your precious "survival of the fittest" gene pool, hmm? I mean, did you really type that in a reply to this thread??

Sadly, I think most Americans probably would agree with you. You are correct that society does tend to favor thinner people, attributing some sort of godliness to them, that perhaps they were blessed with fast BMRs and that they eat pizza and beer constantly and their HDLs are off the charts never enters into anyone's mind.

Again, remember, we're not trying to get into obesity here, just "overweight" or, in other words, "slightly outside of normal range."

 

[IrishHammer]

I hope to God that somebody gets this reference, because a.) it's a reference to something funny, and b.) it's the truth.

The obesity epidemic is bull****!

 

[trailrider400]

i heard fat is the new skinny?

 

[Passion4Sci]

I hope to God that somebody gets this reference, because a.) it's a reference to something funny, and b.) it's the truth.

The obesity epidemic is bull****!

Penn and Teller!!

Saw them live in Vegas last year, best show I've ever seen there.

 

[Jdario86]

BTW, I think the stigma placed on overweight people is similar to that placed on underweight people and overly-attractive people. I think underweight people face accusations of being anorexic, cocaine addicts etc. when they really just have a naturally fast metabolism. Sometimes overly-attractive people can be stigmatized as air-headed and shallow, when they're actually really intelligent.

I spoke to some of my friends about this issue. They happen to be very attractive females, however, they feel like they have to "dress-down" and dress uberly conservative to be taken seriously for a school interview and not be seen as slutty party girls (even though they're absolutely not). I also think this is more of an issue with female interviewees and less with males.

I personally think that people sometimes tend to focus so much on their physical flaws that it deters their true character to shine.

 

[samuricool]

Call me naive, but I stick with a professional (health or otherwise) who handles my affairs that has the best answers, focuses on my needs, and is not afraid to call me out on my bull**** when he knows it isnt good (healthy or otherwise) for me.

Personally, I have always been someone who picks out all the imperfections of a person before I even get to know them. Crooked smile, bad teeth, sloppy dresser, too big/small of a nose, eyebrows, ears, overweight, you name it I see it before I even say hello. I know all of my imperfections (and believe me I have my share) and dont care what anyone else has to say of them. When I graduate and begin to practice, I hope most people are like me, can look over my physical imperfections and choose to listen and take advice from me because I know what I am talking about and put their needs first. As is said in one of my favorite movies, "you can hope in one hand and **** in the other, and see which one comes first."

I wont hesitate to tell someone when they buy their lipitor that they shouldnt be buying the 100 count bagel bites that I see in their cart and should instead heed to the exercise plan I hope their PCP discussed with them. Just as I would want someone to tell me should I be in their shoes.

 

[Jdario86]

Call me naive, but I stick with a professional (health or otherwise) who handles my affairs that has the best answers, focuses on my needs, and is not afraid to call me out on my bull**** when he knows it isnt good (healthy or otherwise) for me.

Personally, I have always been someone who picks out all the imperfections of a person before I even get to know them. Crooked smile, bad teeth, sloppy dresser, too big/small of a nose, eyebrows, ears, overweight, you name it I see it before I even say hello. I know all of my imperfections (and believe me I have my share) and dont care what anyone else has to say of them. When I graduate and begin to practice, I hope most people are like me, can look over my physical imperfections and choose to listen and take advice from me because I know what I am talking about and put their needs first. As is said in one of my favorite movies, "you can hope in one hand and **** in the other, and see which one comes first."

I wont hesitate to tell someone when they buy their lipitor that they shouldnt be buying the 100 count bagel bites that I see in their cart and should instead heed to the exercise plan I hope their PCP discussed with them. Just as I would want someone to tell me should I be in their shoes.

👍

 

[charfdorn]

And as for the cigarette smoking... I think it is absolutely disgusting regardless of who does it, but it does particularly irritate me when I see healthcare workers out on a smoke break. If you do it while you aren't wearing your scrubs or white coat, that only irritates me as much as anyone smoking... But it's when I can quickly and easily identify the smoker as a nurse, pharmacist, doctor, etc, it really really really bugs me. And it smells bad. ew.

I agree with this point pretty strongly. Smoking in the medical profession is inappropriate. I have been quitting smoking for the past four or five years, and I'm pretty close, but I feel like I will have to kick it altogether when I start pharmacy school. What bothers me about is not that health professionals would choose to smoke, but that they would do it when easily recognizable. You shouldn't smoke in scrubs, white coat, etc., because you are at that time easily knowable as a health professional. It's hypocrisy. If you want to smoke on your own time, that's fine (but HARD).

Interesting note... one of my customers is a former or current (I'm not sure) head of surgery at a major hospital and smokes like a chimney. Nicotine is WAY addictive, and while we all know it's not good for us, it's pretty hard to quit, so I try not to judge someone because of their addiction.

 

[sakigt]

I know someone who stays thin in his 50 and never exercise in his entire life. His health, however, is not as good as his weight. Because of long period of inactivity, he suffers many illnesses, including cardiovascular diseases even though his blood cholesterol is well below 200.

Welcome to my life. I have never been active besides lifting groceries when I worked at a supermarket although Ive always been thin. Thats why in Feb I started running 3 times a week for 30 minutes. Once you tell yourself this is a long term plan and Im not going to stop running just because I dont feel like it - it becomes second nature. Luckily I didnt need a wake up call health related problem to start...

 

[stlouis79]

Answer in short- There is always the possibility you will be discriminated against, just like short people are always at a disadvantage over tall people (at least with men). Good looking people are at advantages over ugly folks. People subconsciously prefer fit, good-looking traits. It shows genetic superiority, at least perceived (because the best looking are normally dumb as rocks).

 

[sprinkle0420]

I agree with this point pretty strongly. Smoking in the medical profession is inappropriate. I have been quitting smoking for the past four or five years, and I'm pretty close, but I feel like I will have to kick it altogether when I start pharmacy school. What bothers me about is not that health professionals would choose to smoke, but that they would do it when easily recognizable. You shouldn't smoke in scrubs, white coat, etc., because you are at that time easily knowable as a health professional. It's hypocrisy. If you want to smoke on your own time, that's fine (but HARD).

Interesting note... one of my customers is a former or current (I'm not sure) head of surgery at a major hospital and smokes like a chimney. Nicotine is WAY addictive, and while we all know it's not good for us, it's pretty hard to quit, so I try not to judge someone because of their addiction.

Smoking is a hard one to break for sure...I am struggling with quitting, but really don't want to because I know I will most likely gain some weight if I do and I don't want to lose my slender 102lb/5'2 frame.

 

[HayMay18]

I think there is bias in our society on overweight people. And people do have a hard time taking diet/health advice from overweight doctors and nurses. It might be better, though, if these health practitioners try to relate to the patients while they tell them to try to improve their health.

Honestly I'll admit I probably wouldn't go to a certain doctor or nurse if they were overweight, but I don't think I've ever even seen one that was overweight, not even a dentist or anything. I know their knowledge isn't based on their weight, but it also just doesn't look very professional in my opinion. I imagine it being like having a doctor covered in tats and piercings. Wouldn't exactly make me comfortable, but maybe I'm just being mean. 🙁

I'm 5'1 and 97 pounds. Hopefully I don't have to worry about my weight... at least for a while.

 

[LostTexan]

OP, in replying to your original statement I would have to say that I don't think interviewers are biased to the extent that they would attempt to deny you admission due to your weight. I've got too much junk in the trunk (I'm carrying around about 50 extra lbs) but I don't think that hindered me during my interviews and I was accepted to each school I interviewed at. I believe that the interviewers were more interested in what I had to say than what I tipped the scales at. I also noticed that the overwhelming majority of students that I saw appeared to be average/trim.

That being said, I understand the importance of getting my weight down to a healthy level, especially since I'm going into the healthcare profession. I'm making lifestyle changes now- like eating out less and excersing more. I have to disagree with a previous poster that said we become overweight because we have too much time on our hands, I personally feel that statement was a bit ridiculous. Personally, I have been working 50 hours/wk for the past 3 years, in addition to taking 18 credit semesters, and organizing numerous volunteer projects. This certainly isn't the lifestyle of a lazy person. When I come home from a 14 hour workday the last thing I want to do is cook, so I end up at the drive-thru the next day. Of course I know healthier choices are available, I'm just pointing this out to show that being overweight is not necessarily linked with having 'too much time on your hands'.

We commonly refer to the 'practice what you preach' mentality and I don't think that I would be taken seriously as a healthcare professional if I was telling others what they need to do to live a healthier life if I wasn't doing the same myself. I don't think a patient would discredit weightloss advice from someone that is 10-15 pounds overweight and is probably within normal BMI, but I can cetainly imagine that it may happen if the healthcare professional is significantly overweight. My doctor and pharmacist are both overweight but since I know that their weight has nothing to do with their capability to do their jobs, its something I can easily overlook. Unfortunately, many others cannot.

In regards to a healthcare professional smoking, I believe in general that it shouldn't be done. However, I know eating McDonalds french fries shouldn't be done either but I still do it on occasion. If we choose to participate in these actions which are detrimental to our health, i feel it should be done away from the workplace. I think that while we are on the job and have that white coat on we should be mindful of our actions and remember that we are representing healthcare as a whole- you shouldn't be smoking on breaks and I shouldn't be downing a BigMac and coke. Sorry that was so long-winded!

 

[Storm90]

To be honest, receiving nutritional advice from an obese person would seem rather ironic. But when it comes to my health, I'd rather a large person with the appropriate knowledge talking to me instead of a skinny or fit person who doesn't. As far as interviewer bias, that's "supposed" to not exist, and weight shouldn't factor in any decision unless it would affect your work. Would it be ideal to have physicians, RNs, pharmacists, etc to be physically fit? Sure, but not likely. And after working 12+ hours on your feet, that's not really something that should be expected. As for me, judge for yourself. I'm 5'7, 180-185lbs so obviously my BMI says I'm overweight & near obese, I play rugby 3 times/week, coach rugby 3 times/week, play baseball 1-2 times/week and I also go to the gym fairly regularly. I have been as high as 195lbs after taking 3 weeks off and not watching my diet, but my bodyweight should be around 170-175lbs imo, so I'm not too far off. I eat healthy most of the time and I don't smoke.