PA and PsyD?

[BellaPsyD]

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Out of curiosity, anyone heard of doctoral level Psych. going on to become a PA and then prescribing (under proper supervision)? Can you practice under both titles?

(I may post this is the RxP thread as well, just a heads up)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Out of curiosity, anyone heard of doctoral level Psych. going on to become a PA and then prescribing (under proper supervision)? Can you practice under both titles?

I've seen PhD/PsyD + NP, though not PA...though that is definitely an option.

-t

ps. We don't allow cross posting, so instead I'd ask you to edit your other post and stick a link to this thread in there, so people who are interested can read this thread.

 

[BellaPsyD]

sorry about cross posting- would definitely fix my mistake, but not sure how to do that (what you said about providing the thread....) let me know how and I'll take care of it asap!

 

[primadonna22274]

Yes, there was a PsyD. the year behind me in PA school and as far as I know she's doing that very thing. She wanted formal instruction in medicine and the ability to prescribe and to work under supervision of a psychiatrist without having to go through med school/residency. It seems like a smart fit for the right person. I briefly thought of going the other way (already a PA, thought about doing a Ph.D. in psychology, not as interested in Psy.D for other reasons) but decided I did enough psych in family practice for my liking.
It has been done often. You might check with the Society of PAs in Psychiatry (there's a website, don't know what it is but you could google it or check the AAPA website for links) for more info.
Good luck,
Lisa

 

[primadonna22274]

I posted an answer in the other forum. Maybe a mod could merge the threads....
lisa

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Okay, merged the threads, and there is a re-direct from the RxP thread to here. 😀

-t

 

[BellaPsyD]

Lisa-

thanks SO much for answering in such a kind way. I was a little scared asking b/c the school I go to is a well known DO school, but also has established PA and PsyD programs. When I went to the head of the PA program to inquire about how to go about doing this, she was VERY insulted. Telling me I saw PA's as a back door to RxP and asking if my program head had any idea what i was doing speaking to her (he did...., but I still felt like I was doing something wrong). I was also told I couldn't use the two degrees (I am in IL if anyone has heard of this)- not sure if that is true or her just being rude...For the record, I do not look at it as a back door, but instead a means to get what I want b/c I realized this a little late in life and don't want to spend the time to go thru many many more years of med school (after the 3 for PsyD, 1 for internship, and 2 for residency)....so PA as another 2 years seems a little more affordable and time efficient (I need to actually USE my degrees at some point....) Some of my patients just can't be helped by therapy alone and need meds, I would liek to provide it all for them.... 🙂 And I know some PA's I LOVE!

 

[primadonna22274]

No problem Bella. And for what it's worth, that PD is definitely wrong and probably the same PD who sent me a totally nasty email when I sent out survey requests to all the PA master's program directors when I was doing my master's project in '00, asking me how do I DARE infiltrate her inbox as a lowly student, did I have my PD's permission (duh, she gave me the email addresses), etc. There's b----ches everywhere.
University of Iowa has had a successful PA/Psychiatry postgraduate residency going for a long time. They would certainly know how feasible it is to use both degrees. I can see where it would be a problem to be dually licensed and practicing fully as a PA/Psy.D. outside of the mental health setting. But let's think about this; if you're already a Psy.D. student I imagine you're planning on serving in a mental health setting, so where's the problem? What you can't do is have a FP or EM supervising physician and then have a practice totally geared to psychiatry. Gotta be a psychiatrist supervising you. Probably not too hard to do in your situation.
Good luck!
Lisa

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I just got a couple e-mails today about RxP stuff in Illinois, and evidently the AMA is headquartered there, and they are quite adamant about keeping RxP out, even though PAs and NPs have rights now. I wouldn't look for RxP there any time soon, but the PA option seems like a viable one.

As for the PD reaction.....pretty unprofessional.

-t

 

[BellaPsyD]

Since you mentioned you got some info. on IL RxP- could you share/pass it on? I'm very interested (my dissertation is actually on it....)

 

[shock-me-sane]

I have experienced the snotty nature in medicine vs. psych. I am just doing nursing and not PA/NP, I have gotten less than stellar, almost insulted responses from the nursing department regarding my applying to clinical PhD programs.

Strangely enough my psychology department is wonderful about the nursing gig.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A link to the state association: http://www.illinoispsychology.org/index.php?tray=topic&tid=top134&cid=9

The e-mails pretty much said that there are some dedicated people who want to get the legislation passed, but it will definitely take awhile because of the AMA presence, as well as not having enough trained clinicians ready/willing to fill the need. They said it will eventually happen because of the need, but it won't be in the near future.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I have experienced the snotty nature in medicine vs. psych. I am just doing nursing and not PA/NP, I have gotten less than stellar, almost insulted responses from the nursing department regarding my applying to clinical PhD programs.

Strangely enough my psychology department is wonderful about the nursing gig.

There are many colors in the rainbow, so I'm sure you'll find a mixed bag anywhere you go. I use to work with nurses on a daily basis and for the most part they were really supportive, though it was in a psych setting and most were NPs, so I think they had a better understanding than a random hospital RN. I spent some time over at AllNurses.com, and they seem like a pretty informed bunch and seemed to have positive experiences with psychologists....though YMMV. I think most psychologists who have worked in a hospital setting can at least appreciate the hard work most nurses do.

Some people don't understand what is required for a doctorate and they criticize it because they would never do it. Some people can't understand how someone could spend 6-7 years 'studying'...on top of undergraduate work, sometimes an MS, etc. I really woudln't want it any other way....I get to study what I love, and learn it better than 99% of other people.

-t

 

[paramour]

So if one is solely interested in the mental health area and decided to pursue additional education for prescription privileges, what would be the benefit(s) of going through with a PA rather than a master's in psychopharam (or vice versa)?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So if one is solely interested in the mental health area and decided to pursue additional education for prescription privileges, what would be the benefit(s) of going through with a PA rather than a master's in psychopharam (or vice versa)?

There are already established laws across the US for practice. RxP for psychologists is very much in the beginning of that process. For people who KNOW they want to do this as a primary part of their practice (and don't want to live in LA, NM, etc)...I'd suggest going with an already established route, since you don't know if/when your state will get prescribing rights for psychologists. What is difficult about this is that to get legislation passed, you need people willing to do the training, but without firm legislation....it is hard to convince people to do the training and hope the legislation gets passed.

My personal bias is that the MS in psychopharm programs are probably a better fit because it is geared towards psychologist's strengths, and PA/NP are not....which isn't necessarily bad, just different.

I looked at various PA and NP programs, and I thought the NP programs in general were a better fit for the training....though I admittedly know more people in this area so they probably influenced some of my opinions.

It is important to note I think there is more variance in MS Pharma programs since they are newer and the standards are still being set. I am only familiar with the Nova program, which is residentially based. I feel comfortable recommending it as a program, though I'm not as sure about the programs that are mostly online. I am admittedly biased against any online training...so YMMV. I've been told that the nova grads on average score the highest on the national exam, compared to the other ms pharma programs...though I'm trying to find hard proof to verify this statement, so take that with a big grain of salt. If this is true, it is probably because of the required practicum requirements to graduate (different than the internship) and the fact it is residential and there are real exams, etc.

-t

 

[paramour]

Thanks, T4C. That's in line w/ what I was thinking on both but was unsure whether I was missing anything as it seemed too "simple" . . . for lack of a better word right now.

 

[BellaPsyD]

Yes, that's why I would do the NP or PA program (what are the big differences?)
A masters in Pharm is definitely preferable, however, that wouldn't enable me to actually prescribe. If IL passes the bill, I am definietly looking into Novas program- it's my #1 choice.

I have only researched PA, not anything aobut NP- pros, cons to each, anyone?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yes, that's why I would do the NP or PA program (what are the big differences?)
A masters in Pharm is definitely preferable, however, that wouldn't enable me to actually prescribe. If IL passes the bill, I am definitely looking into Novas program- it's my #1 choice.

If you have any questions, feel free to drop me a PM....I'm a 2nd year in that program.

-t