PAT score Good enough?

[briansle]

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I recently talked to a dentist who teaches at USC and is also reviews applicants there. I asked him about my chances. I said my GPA is about 3.3, he told me my GPA was borderline, which I expected to be the case. Then I told him my DAT scores were 21/21/19. I was surprised to hear him tell me, "take the DAT over again." He says I should shoot for a PAT score of atleast 21, and that 19 was just average, which will not be competitive.

So, if I do take it over again, and somehow score lower, will they just take my best score? or most recent one?

I know that alot of people in this forum will say my scores are good enough and this dentist doesn't know what he's talking about. But remember, this guy teaches pros at USC and actually reviews applicants. So obviously he knows alot about this process.

His reasoning for why my DAT scores need be better was that as a korean male, I will not be compared with other white, persian, or vietnamese males. Instead, I will be compared only to other korean males. They have quotas they adhere to. I wasn't shocked to hear this, but a bit disappointed. USC I know in particular has that good ole boy network thing going on. Where alot of dumb rich white guys get accepted simply because their great grand papy went here. The "Brotherhood". This is true atleast for its undergrad, I hope this doesn't pervade into the dental school. But then again I wonder: if me and another white male applicant had the exact same stats and extracurriculars, who would SC accept? Me or him? Sadly, I think I already know the answer.

 

[DREDAY]

I recently talked to a dentist who teaches at USC and is also reviews applicants there. I asked him about my chances. I said my GPA is about 3.3, he told me my GPA was borderline, which I expected to be the case. Then I told him my DAT scores were 21/21/19. I was surprised to hear him tell me, "take the DAT over again." He says I should shoot for a PAT score of atleast 21, and that 19 was just average, which will not be competitive.

So, if I do take it over again, and somehow score lower, will they just take my best score? or most recent one?

I know that alot of people in this forum will say my scores are good enough and this dentist doesn't know what he's talking about. But remember, this guy teaches pros at USC and actually reviews applicants. So obviously he knows alot about this process.

His reasoning for why my DAT scores need be better was that as a korean male, I will not be compared with other white, persian, or vietnamese males. Instead, I will be compared only to other korean males. They have quotas they adhere to. I wasn't shocked to hear this, but a bit disappointed. USC I know in particular has that good ole boy network thing going on. Where alot of dumb rich white guys get accepted simply because their great grand papy went here. The "Brotherhood". This is true atleast for its undergrad, I hope this doesn't pervade into the dental school. But then again I wonder: if me and another white male applicant had the exact same stats and extracurriculars, who would SC accept? Me or him? Sadly, I think I already know the answer.

OK FIRST OF ALL THE HES CRAZY. Your DAT scores are great and your GPA is competitive for USC. Don't stress it you'll be fine. DO NOT take it over again.

 

[briansle]

Yea, I thought he was crazy too, but after seeing the other applicants on this site, he's making alot of sense now.

Truth be told, nowadays 21 is only competitive if not average, its not really great. It no longer sets you apart from other applicants, since everyone else scores just as high. It merely gives you consideration.

Also, answer my orig question, do they take my best or most recent score?

 

[t12kim]

yeah, don't take it. i got 16 on pat and i sheduled an interview on the first week of october (when they started interviewing people). Although i am not saying i have a better chance of getting in because i had an early interview, they gave me an interview with 16!! on pat. you have 19! 🙂

 

[t12kim]

Kp

 

[briansle]

Kp fo life

 

[aphistis]

Yea, I thought he was crazy too, but after seeing the other applicants on this site, he's making alot of sense now.

Truth be told, nowadays 21 is only competitive if not average, its not really great. It no longer sets you apart from other applicants, since everyone else scores just as high. It merely gives you consideration.

Also, answer my orig question, do they take my best or most recent score?

Key phrase in your post: on this site. SDN is *not* a representative section of the applicant population. A 19 PAT is perfectly respectable, and it's for bleepin' sure not a liability.

 

[t12kim]

they look at the most recent DAT, but you should do better than the first one if you are retaking it. Eva (admission staff) told me that long time ago when she visited my school.

And my question.........is that professor really in the admission committee?? I also talked to one of usc professors (i got a chance to talk to him because my dad knows him somehow), even though he is not in the admission comittee, he told me that i have a great chance. he never told me that nationality and race are counted in the admission process. koreans are compared with other koreans...that's BS i think. If that is the real case, let's sue them. next time record your conversation with that processor on a tape.

by the way, 21 is a great DAT score. It is not an eye catcher like 27 and 28, but the average DAT score for USC is around 19, which means that there are people with higher than 19 and there are people with lower than 19. There are around 144 people accepted each year. Hypothetically speaking, around 70 poeple get lower than 19 and around 70 people get higher than 19. I am speaking hypothetically here. Don't worry man.

good luck man. usc is one of my first choices, because k-town is right next to it. let's party every friday night if we both go there. i mean clubbing.

 

[MrBenny]

the guy was joking. I got a 16 on my PAT and i have had 7 interviews so far, including USC. i'm also asian.
i have said this in other posts, and i'll say it again: The PAT is the stupidest section of any standardized exam i have ever taken, or will ever take, in my life. someone explain to me why future dentists need to go through this, but mechanical, civil, and all other engineers don't see anything remotely like this on their standardized exams.

fortunately, it is my understanding that the majority of dental schools share my sentiments, and focus more on AA and TS.

 

[Biogirl361]

i have a 17 pat and got interviews to every school i applied to. although i don't know anything about usc and their standards, i would say don't take it over again, i think you have awesome DAT scores and they shouldn't hurt you in any way. 👍

 

[demonicr]

i think that dentist is full of crap. you should of asked him what he has for the PAT section when he took it. Your PAT score is good. i would not retake it.

 

[dane4695]

Perhaps this is something that can be solved with... problem based learning? 🙂 gg

I wouldn't consider retaking with those scores 😛 But if you're down and confident you'll score 23 or 24 across the board then go for it.

 

[Mo007]

i have a 17 pat and got interviews to every school i applied to. although i don't know anything about usc and their standards, i would say don't take it over again, i think you have awesome DAT scores and they shouldn't hurt you in any way. 👍

Absolutely agree. Same here, 17 PAT... 3 interviews so far, no one mentioned my PAT score.

It's unhealthy to fear something that you shouldn't be feared about... A PAT 19 may not be good score to the candidate (which is fine), but doesn't mean is a problem on your file... the OP can call the schools if he/she is not comfortable with this issue, so he/she can get the point everyone is trying to make here. 😀

 

[briansle]

Alright, I'll take your guys' word for it.

When the guy told me to buy some engineering books to study from, I was like, "you gotta be kidding me." He was dead serious though.

Besides, I don't see how I could raise the PAT score any higher. I practiced alot for it. If it was the AA part, then it would be another story, but the PAT seems like something your either good at or not.

 

[saman1]

Do not take the test again unless you're aiming for UCLA. I pretty much have the same score as you do. I talked you someone at USC and they said that 21/18 is competitive.

(but I hope that dentist you spoke with as right about USC having lower standards for persians 😀 )

 

[DrTacoElf]

I had a 17 PAT and got an interview everywhere I applied. Your fine with a 19!!

 

[bouncy_ball]

I know that alot of people in this forum will say my scores are good enough and this dentist doesn't know what he's talking about. But remember, this guy teaches pros at USC and actually reviews applicants. So obviously he knows alot about this process.

His reasoning for why my DAT scores need be better was that as a korean male, I will not be compared with other white, persian, or vietnamese males. Instead, I will be compared only to other korean males. They have quotas they adhere to. I wasn't shocked to hear this, but a bit disappointed.

The reason I don't buy it is because how does an admission person know what ethnicity you are, especially if you didn't specify on your applications??? I mean, if your last name is Lee, couldn't you very well be Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, or even Caucasian? Or what if you're of mixed racial ethnicities?

Additionally, although the person you talked to may be on the admissions comittee, not all committee members see eye to eye, and he may have higher expectations than other members.

Just a thought...

 

[jessUMD]

When you took your test and got a 21/21/19, you should have seen what percentiles were listed next to it. For you to think 21 is "average" is pretty crazy - you are doing better than 90-95% of the rest of the country taking the test. when 21 starts being 50th percentile, then we'll worry. get over it already....19 is perfectly fine on the PAT - it's a GOOD score, in fact.
don't go by stats on this site- people who have good stats are way more likely to post than those who are "average" or even sub-par. i think you still have a great shot. good luck.