Pathology and the DO internship

[vegasdo]

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Hello. I am a 4th year osteopathic student applying to Pathology residencies for 2008. I was notified today by Henry Ford in Michigan that I cannot get accepted this year because I need to do an osteopathic internship first. They told me to apply next year. Is Michigan the only state with this requirement?


Thanks

 

[Daddydoc]

Hello. I am a 4th year osteopathic student applying to Pathology residencies for 2008. I was notified today by Henry Ford in Michigan that I cannot get accepted this year because I need to do an osteopathic internship first. They told me to apply next year. Is Michigan the only state with this requirement?


Thanks

The five states that require an internship year for DOs to practice will all be the same. MI, OK, WV, PA, FL are the five states with this particular requirement, I believe. Stupid, I know.

 

[vegasdo]

I thought they were changing this requirement. I don't know about PA either because I got an invite from Thomas Jefferson. I guess I should contact each program

 

[Daddydoc]

I thought they were changing this requirement. I don't know about PA either because I got an invite from Thomas Jefferson. I guess I should contact each program

The change in the requirement really didn't change anything. All it was was a change of semantics by the AOA. They didn't eliminate the requirement for the intern year, they just changed the wording of it. It did change some things for fields that do intern years, I think, but nothing changed for fields like path where there is no need for an intern year. There have been threads about this in other forums which might shed some light on it for you. Some of the five states might vary in their requirements. Some states might still let you get a temporary license for training, but not a permanent license. The real problem is the AOA has no control over this as it is a requirement by each states osteopathic state board.

 

[schrute]

The change in the requirement really didn't change anything. All it was was a change of semantics by the AOA. They didn't eliminate the requirement for the intern year, they just changed the wording of it. It did change some things for fields that do intern years, I think, but nothing changed for fields like path where there is no need for an intern year. There have been threads about this in other forums which might shed some light on it for you. Some of the five states might vary in their requirements. Some states might still let you get a temporary license for training, but not a permanent license. The real problem is the AOA has no control over this as it is a requirement by each states osteopathic state board.

Can't you get a waiver for that requirement?

 

[djmd]

The five states that require an internship year for DOs to practice will all be the same. MI, OK, WV, PA, FL are the five states with this particular requirement, I believe. Stupid, I know.

My understanding was that the rule applied to 'practicing' medicine, (having a full medical license), and that doing a residency in one of those states was not an issue, but that was just my impression....

 

[Daddydoc]

My understanding was that the rule applied to 'practicing' medicine, (having a full medical license), and that doing a residency in one of those states was not an issue, but that was just my impression....

I think that is state dependent.

 

[Daddydoc]

Can't you get a waiver for that requirement?

As far as I know I can't. They do have Resolution 42 which allows you to get and ACGME intern year approved to take the place of a DO intern year. I don't know of a waiver to not do it at all. The AOA specifically states in their new requirements that an intern year is required before a path residency. Path falls under the option 2. Here is a link to their explanation of the new requirements.

https://www.do-online.org/pdf/sir_postdocinternrestructure0708.pdf

 

[schrute]

well good thing i said 'screw the AOA' long ago.

 

[dermpathdoc]

Hello. I am a 4th year osteopathic student applying to Pathology residencies for 2008. I was notified today by Henry Ford in Michigan that I cannot get accepted this year because I need to do an osteopathic internship first. They told me to apply next year. Is Michigan the only state with this requirement?
Thanks

four other states.....Florida, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma andone other..forget right at present...The AOA webiste should be able to direct you to those states and frankly i think your school fell down on the job they should have informed you about this. I tell all of my students who plan to go into pathology about the realities
You might of course go to another state for your residency and then try pleading with the AOA COPT to get a waiver

 

[vegasdo]

Are there any DOs out there planning on completing a DO internship before starting a pathology residency program?

 

[schrute]

four other states.....Florida, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma andone other..forget right at present...The AOA webiste should be able to direct you to those states and frankly i think your school fell down on the job they should have informed you about this. I tell all of my students who plan to go into pathology about the realities
You might of course go to another state for your residency and then try pleading with the AOA COPT to get a waiver

but isn't that only if one desires to maintain affiliation with the AOA? I could care less, and if one takes all necessary USMLE steps and receives ACGME training, what does the internship matter?

 

[schrute]

Are there any DOs out there planning on completing a DO internship before starting a pathology residency program?

absolutely not.
it's completely ridiculous that the AOA, the state osteopathic associaiton, or AT Still himself should make such an asinine requirement.
This lack of logic and insistance on hard-line political garbage is precisely the reason i want nothing to do with that archaic organization.

 

[vegasdo]

but isn't that only if one desires to maintain affiliation with the AOA? I could care less, and if one takes all necessary USMLE steps and receives ACGME training, what does the internship matter?

Exactly. I just wanted to make sure this internship was only to maintain affiliation with the AOA, and not some sort of requirement to practice medicine.

 

[Daddydoc]

Exactly. I just wanted to make sure this internship was only to maintain affiliation with the AOA, and not some sort of requirement to practice medicine.

Definately not doing one. That's all I need...another year for interest to accrue. To get a license to practice medicine in those states you do have to complete the AOA approved intern year. It's not only to stay on the good side of the AOA.

 

[schrute]

Definately not doing one. That's all I need...another year for interest to accrue. To get a license to practice medicine in those states you do have to complete the AOA approved intern year. It's not only to stay on the good side of the AOA.

ditto.

 

[alimarie81]

what I do not understand is how the AOA can cling to this steadfast internship rule when the AOA does not even OFFER and osteopathic pathology training programs. If an osteopathic student wants to go into pathology, he/she MUSTcomplete an allopathic training program. The AOA is stepping over into ACGME territory, and screwing the students in the process. How can they require this, and how could they deny retro-active accrediation since there just are not any programs?

I was thinking of applying to MI programs- does this mean that I should cross all MI programs off my list if I do not intend to do an internship??

 

[vegasdo]

I was thinking of applying to MI programs- does this mean that I should cross all MI programs off my list if I do not intend to do an internship??

Cross Henry Ford off and I would contact the other ones.

 

[EUA]

As far as I know I can't. They do have Resolution 42 which allows you to get and ACGME intern year approved to take the place of a DO intern year. I don't know of a waiver to not do it at all. The AOA specifically states in their new requirements that an intern year is required before a path residency. Path falls under the option 2. Here is a link to their explanation of the new requirements.

https://www.do-online.org/pdf/sir_postdocinternrestructure0708.pdf

Does this god-forsaken form need to be filled out for those who intend to become licensed in the remaining 45ish states then, those that don't officially require an internship? Why is the AOA so bass-ackwards? Why do I feel like I'm being punished for going into a non-primary-care specialty? Bah.

 

[pathdawg]

Here's the deal. You do NOT need to do an AOA internship in order to train in one of those five states. You DO need on in order to have an unrestricted medical license. There is nothing stopping you from training in Michigan. Practicing there afterward may be a challenge. But you can certainly do a residency there.
Check with the dimwits at the AOA first, but this is the situation as I see it.

 

[Daddydoc]

Why do I feel like I'm being punished for going into a non-primary-care specialty? Bah.

Because you are.

 

[EUA]

Because you are.

Rhetorical question.... but yeah.

 

[vegasdo]

Here's the deal. You do NOT need to do an AOA internship in order to train in one of those five states. You DO need on in order to have an unrestricted medical license. There is nothing stopping you from training in Michigan. Practicing there afterward may be a challenge. But you can certainly do a residency there.
Check with the dimwits at the AOA first, but this is the situation as I see it.

I think you got it right. I just got an interview offer from St. John's in MI so I guess it's up to each program whether or not they want to take you.

So if you are a DO who wants to train in MI, apply to St. John's but not Henry Ford. I'll keep you posted on the others.

 

[alimarie81]

so, you are an osteopath, who is not completing an internship, and got an interview?

I have called the AOA headquarters in Chicago, and nobody I talk to can give me a straight answer as to whether or not I can train in a residency program (not necessarily practicing there afterwards) in Michigan without doing an internship.

I did find out that if one were to try to use the resolution 42 petition for pathology (or any other specialty that falls under category 2) you need to do this: 1) get the forms early in your PGY-1 year for documentation 2) complete 2 months of inpatient adult medicine 3) complete 2 months of another "core" area- can be surgery, more medicine, peds, etc. 4) complete 1 month of ER 5) complete 1 month of family med OR have 42 weeks in a continuity of care clinic AND....my personal favorite 6) attend national and regional AOA meetings, and have proof that you attended

If you have any more correspondence from St. John's let me know, because I would like to submit my app there, but hesitated the entire state of MI

 

[vegasdo]

Yes, I am an osteopath and like the other posters on this thread I will definitely NOT be doing a DO internship. I also called the AOA and received the same vague answer. Everyone I talked to over there tried to transfer me to someone else that might know more about the topic.

I haven't contacted St. John's or Thomas Jefferson yet but I plan to ask them what they know about the situation.

 

[alimarie81]

Please let us know if you find out from those MI programs. I am going to make some more calls on Monday before I waste more money applying to programs who might not even be able to keep me as a resident if I can't get my state medical license while in residency.

 

[Flintstone]

It seems to be the common consensus that you can receive training but not practice in the 5 states.

However, don't you need to be a licensed physician to be a resident? What if you need to write a prescription?😕

 

[pathdawg]

It seems to be the common consensus that you can receive training but not practice in the 5 states.

However, don't you need to be a licensed physician to be a resident? What if you need to write a prescription?😕

There are different levels of licensure. A resident needs a trainee's license, with which one can write rpescriptions in their hospital. An unrestricted medical license is different. A trainee can, of course, have an unrestricted license but in fact does not require one to train.

 

[Flintstone]

Oh..I see. Thank you.🙂

 

[vegasdo]

Please let us know if you find out from those MI programs. I am going to make some more calls on Monday before I waste more money applying to programs who might not even be able to keep me as a resident if I can't get my state medical license while in residency.

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner, but here is what I have so far. I received interviews in MI from William Beaumont and St. John's. In Ohio, I received interviews from Cleveland Clinic, Metro Cleveland, and Akron. I also received invites from Jefferson in PA and Univ. Miami Jackson Memorial in FL. I applied to more programs in these states but have yet to here from them. The only no I got was from Henry Ford in MI.

I am pretty sure that you can train in these 5 states, but it is up to you to get your DO internship year waived in order to practice. I did not individually call each program, but I advise that you do before you apply so you can save some money. I'll let you know if I get any more responses like Henry Ford's in the future.

 

[IgnisDU]

I'll be starting DO school in the fall and I have a pretty strong preconceived notion that I want to go into Pathology. I keep hearing the rhetoric that DOs focus on primary care specialties and that just isn't me. Other than keeping my head down and staying off the radar, do you guys have an suggestions specific to osteopathic school to help me get into a pathology residency? The quick obvious suggestions are get good grades, do well on the boards and do research (I have 3 papers and two abstracts right now)... but what about getting clinical rotations?

I guess what I'm asking boils down to "if you knew then, what you know now..." sort of suggestions.

Thanks,

P.S. I had to choose between a DO school in my hometown where my wife an I have family and friends or go to a Caribbean MD school, I have chosen the DO school.

 

[myofibroblast]

Yeah, I am curious about this as well. I am also the class of '12 and have wanted to do pathology since I was 14. I don't really care where I do my residency, however, I am VERY passionate about someday practicing in my home state (Oklahoma). If the internship year is something that HAS to be done in order to practice, I wouldn't mind doing it. However, is it hard to set up an internship like this whenever you have been accepted to an allopathic residency that doesn't require it? The whole thing is VERY confusing.

 

[yaah]

Away rotations would probably help, perhaps at academic MD-associated institutions. If you can get a reference letter from an MD program director that would be a good thing, I would think.

 

[green mantis]

but isn't that only if one desires to maintain affiliation with the AOA? I could care less, and if one takes all necessary USMLE steps and receives ACGME training, what does the internship matter?

Different states have different requirements for licensure. In some states, the MD & DO boards are the same while in others, they're separate. In California, where I'm training, the boards are separate. You need to pass all 3 parts of the COMLEX to be licensed. This needs to be done by the time you start 3rd year of residency in aggregate. Otherwise, you get the boot.

In summary, in California, it has nothing to do w/ maintaining your affiliation w/ the AOA. On a side note, I'm still a member.


----- Antony

 

[macrocyte]

I'll be starting DO school in the fall and I have a pretty strong preconceived notion that I want to go into Pathology. I keep hearing the rhetoric that DOs focus on primary care specialties and that just isn't me. Other than keeping my head down and staying off the radar, do you guys have an suggestions specific to osteopathic school to help me get into a pathology residency? The quick obvious suggestions are get good grades, do well on the boards and do research (I have 3 papers and two abstracts right now)... but what about getting clinical rotations?

I guess what I'm asking boils down to "if you knew then, what you know now..." sort of suggestions.

Thanks,

P.S. I had to choose between a DO school in my hometown where my wife an I have family and friends or go to a Caribbean MD school, I have chosen the DO school.

If you're sure you want to do path, you should have gone the "palm tree MD" route. No problem with licensure in any state, no internship year, and easily match into a solid program, all the while getting the good ol' MD😉.

 

[myofibroblast]

Well, I am very happy about choosing the D.O. route and from talking to a practicing D.O. pathologist who practices in one of the five states that requires a D.O. internship but got it deferred, I'm not worried about becoming a D.O. pathologist in the least bit. Personally, I would rather stay in my home state, get a good medical education, and could care less about the initials at the end of my name. I will still be graduating from a US medical school regardless if it is osteopathic or allopathic. I don't think telling someone they should have chosen the "palm tree MD" route is very good advice. If you have someone on your side, you shouldn't have a problem getting the internship year deferred if you are in pathology. All they had to do was to explain to the osteopathic board that someone who will be performing autopsies does not need to have the internship year. They were very understanding.