Pathology residency

[cyborg88]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I am an International medical graduate, US permanent resident. I applied for residency previous year with the following credentials:

Step 1 251
Step 2 CK 244
Step 2 CS Second Attempt

No US clinical experience

Two research publications in Internal medicine

I applied for residency with failed CS in ERAS. I applied to 46 pathology programs and 53 Internal Medicine programs. Out of that I got 5 calls from pathology and 2 calls from internal medicine. I got ECFMG certified in December 2012. I matched to a university pathology program. I would not say it is a top program but it is ranked somewhere at number 50 according to internet sources.

I have heard that current pathology market is really poor. People do not get a job even after fellowship. Should I try to switch to medicine? If yes, what are my chances of matching again next year to family medicine, internal medicine or neurology?.

 

[pianoguy05]

Wow...it's like someone took all of the threads that are consistently on here and merged them into a single scenario. I don't even know where to begin.

 

[cyborg88]

Wow...it's like someone took all of the threads that are consistently on here and merged them into a single scenario. I don't even know where to begin.

Still I want to hear honest opinions ...

 

[KLPM]

I remember when I was 5 years old, my father took me on a fishing trip. I thought it was odd because he didn't take my sisters or my mother. In fact, he said it was time I became a man. I recall it was a long drive but I was okay with it because it was the first time in my life he let me sit in the front seat. I was so excited and never once asked "are we there yet" because I wanted, no, I needed to savour that moment. Just the two of us.

I have always known my father as a gentle figure. He used to grow his greying beard out and I used to affectionately refer to him as "daddy Santa". When we finally stopped I found us at a motel.

"Daddy where are the fishies?" I asked in my 5yo pre-pubescent voice.

"Oh don't you worry my son there will be plenty of fish where we be going," he chimed back.

Room 14 we went into. No fish. Just 4 men. I have never seen them before. They smiled at me through crooked dentition. They patted my head. They rubbed my head. One of them even picked me up and gave me a wet kiss. They liked me. They liked me a lot.

"Are they coming fishing too, daddy?"

"That's right Ben. That's right."

They took me into a room and started to "fish". It was the day I lost my innocence.

In the summer of 1978, I was 16 and my father and I went "fishing" again. We have been fishing for a good 10 years now. Always with the same 4 guys. We became good friends. We always went to the same motel and always the same room. They took me on usually at the same time. Sometimes less but I always ended up on top.

That was the last summer I ever spent with my dad. Liver cancer they said. We always drank a lot during these trips. Daddy wasn't one to visit the doctor regularly either. They boozed me up when I was 5 too. Probably why I didn't remember much of that trip. I held his hands as he laid dying in ICU. I slipped something into his hand.

"I love you dad," I stuttered through tearful eyes.

He opened his palm and there was the first poker chip I ever won when I was 5. That's right our "fishing" trips were excuses my dad gave so he could play poker with his friends. Just the six of us in that tight cramped up space smoking, drinking while playing cards. We lost a lot at first but after a few years I started winning. My successes at the game on an international scale started in that tiny motel room.

Thank you, Daddy Santa, R.I.P.

 

[Substance]

i remember when i was 5 years old, my father took me on a fishing trip. I thought it was odd because he didn't take my sisters or my mother. In fact, he said it was time i became a man. I recall it was a long drive but i was okay with it because it was the first time in my life he let me sit in the front seat. I was so excited and never once asked "are we there yet" because i wanted, no, i needed to savour that moment. Just the two of us.

I have always known my father as a gentle figure. He used to grow his greying beard out and i used to affectionately refer to him as "daddy santa". When we finally stopped i found us at a motel.

"daddy where are the fishies?" i asked in my 5yo pre-pubescent voice.

"oh don't you worry my son there will be plenty of fish where we be going," he chimed back.

Room 14 we went into. No fish. Just 4 men. I have never seen them before. They smiled at me through crooked dentition. They patted my head. They rubbed my head. One of them even picked me up and gave me a wet kiss. They liked me. They liked me a lot.

"are they coming fishing too, daddy?"

"that's right ben. That's right."

they took me into a room and started to "fish". It was the day i lost my innocence.

In the summer of 1978, i was 16 and my father and i went "fishing" again. We have been fishing for a good 10 years now. Always with the same 4 guys. We became good friends. We always went to the same motel and always the same room. They took me on usually at the same time. Sometimes less but i always ended up on top.

That was the last summer i ever spent with my dad. Liver cancer they said. We always drank a lot during these trips. Daddy wasn't one to visit the doctor regularly either. They boozed me up when i was 5 too. Probably why i didn't remember much of that trip. I held his hands as he laid dying in icu. I slipped something into his hand.

"i love you dad," i stuttered through tearful eyes.

He opened his palm and there was the first poker chip i ever won when i was 5. That's right our "fishing" trips were excuses my dad gave so he could play poker with his friends. Just the six of us in that tight cramped up space smoking, drinking while playing cards. We lost a lot at first but after a few years i started winning. My successes at the game on an international scale started in that tiny motel room.

Thank you, daddy santa, r.i.p.

wtf??

 

[pathresident2]

Sincere advice from somebody who is doing fellowship in a big name institution in the northeast now: Flee pathology at all cost. I think with your credentials, you can probably find a spot in IM or FM. Don't waste time in pathology. It is a highly disregarded specialty. The pathology leaders are just *****s! They always paint the picture that there will be a mass retirement and shortage of pathologists. However, the reality is pathologists work till the last day of their life. They are just greedy and hungry and desperate. Such a hopeless field.

I am an International medical graduate, US permanent resident. I applied for residency previous year with the following credentials:

Step 1 251
Step 2 CK 244
Step 2 CS Second Attempt

No US clinical experience

I applied for residency with failed CS in ERAS. I applied to 46 pathology programs and 53 Internal Medicine programs. Out of that I got 5 calls from pathology and 2 calls from internal medicine. I got ECFMG certified in December 2012. I matched to a university pathology program. I would not say it is a top program but it is ranked somewhere at number 50 according to internet sources.

I have heard that current pathology market is really poor. People do not get a job even after fellowship. Should I try to switch to medicine? If yes, what are my chances of matching again next year to family medicine, internal medicine or neurology?.

 

[Thrombus]

Still I want to hear honest opinions ...

You should look elsewhere for a rewarding and profitable career. I would flee pathology as you are likely to have to do at least 2 fellowships, maybe more, and then be stuck in a job (if you get one) where a businessman/administrator scrapes off the majority of the profit from your work.

The field of medicine has many avenues towards taking control of your career in your own hands. Pursue that!!!!

I love pathology but there is no way I would ever enter this oversaturated field at this time. This is the same advice I would give to my children.👍👍👍

 

[Substance]

Sounds like the OP is looking for low-hanging fruit. Lucky for him, pathology has fallen off the tree.

With stats like that, some gross-monkey program in New York will take you. Or you can do IM, FM, or psych. You'll never get into a good program or a field that has any modicum of professional respect, so get that out of your head.

 

[Enkidu]

Sounds like the OP is looking for low-hanging fruit. Lucky for him, pathology has fallen off the tree.

With stats like that, some gross-monkey program in New York will take you. Or you can do IM, FM, or psych. You'll never get into a good program or a field that has any modicum of professional respect, so get that out of your head.

Yes, OP - flee those disreputable fields of pathology, medicine, and psychiatry. Be proud like substance and spend your time trolling those pathetic forums to make fun of the lowly pukes who earn their living by diagnosing and medically treating patients.

 

[Substance]

Yes, OP - flee those disreputable fields of pathology, medicine, and psychiatry. Be proud like substance and spend your time trolling those pathetic forums to make fun of the lowly pukes who earn their living by diagnosing and medically treating patients.

Ok, I renege on IM. That field has programs that run the gamut from super to asinine and I have a lot of respect for them; I was merely stating that low-end malignant community programs could be available to the OP, but wasn't clear so I apologize for that.

Psych gets no respect anywhere, and neither does path. I assume the first is for the subject matter, and the second is for the perception of competence and personality types within.

This is a serious problem with your field, and I can't believe that its never addressed. The recruitment issue in pathology has been well known since the 1980s, and still nothing has been done about it except to lower standards; a terrible, shameful move. Your leadership sucks.

 

[Enkidu]

Ok, I renege on IM. That field has programs that run the gamut from super to asinine and I have a lot of respect for them; I was merely stating that low-end malignant community programs could be available to the OP, but wasn't clear so I apologize for that.

Psych gets no respect anywhere, and neither does path. I assume the first is for the subject matter, and the second is for the perception of competence and personality types within.

This is a serious problem with your field, and I can't believe that its never addressed. The recruitment issue in pathology has been well known since the 1980s, and still nothing has been done about it except to lower standards; a terrible, shameful move. Your leadership sucks.

So what field are you in? Which fields would you recommend good medical students to get into?

Also - Do you really think that pathologists are perceived as incompetent? That would be shocking, since tissue diagnosis is the cornerstone of a huge portion of medicine. Any clinician who will argue with pathology about a diagnosis is setting themselves up to look very foolish.

btw - I think the OP will do well in pathology. Presumably smart with high board scores, but potentially not good at clinical medicine (as evidenced by the CS failure).

 

[cyborg88]

Sounds like the OP is looking for low-hanging fruit. Lucky for him, pathology has fallen off the tree.

With stats like that, some gross-monkey program in New York will take you. Or you can do IM, FM, or psych. You'll never get into a good program or a field that has any modicum of professional respect, so get that out of your head.

It is not some low program in new york. It is a big university program in Mid-west. There are 3/5 US medical graduates in the program. If the situation is so bad in pathology why the hell did they go into it?

 

[cyborg88]

Yes, OP - flee those disreputable fields of pathology, medicine, and psychiatry. Be proud like substance and spend your time trolling those pathetic forums to make fun of the lowly pukes who earn their living by diagnosing and medically treating patients.

So you think surgery is the only field that is good?

 

[cyborg88]

Yes, OP - flee those disreputable fields of pathology, medicine, and psychiatry. Be proud like substance and spend your time trolling those pathetic forums to make fun of the lowly pukes who earn their living by diagnosing and medically treating patients.

Even surgeons diagnose, prescribe medicines and do post-op care.

 

[Enkidu]

So you think surgery is the only field that is good?

No - my post was facetious. I think you should do whatever interests you. Pathology is probably a good bet based on your good step 1 score and your trouble with CS.

As for the job market situation... I guess I don't think you should get too frantic about it. Job markets can turn around quickly - A couple years ago the radiology forum was talking about how it was a waste of time to do a fellowship since jobs were so plentiful, and now they're talking about how they all have to do 2 fellowships just to get a job with significantly lower reimbursement than they had expected when they chose the field. You'll be in training for 4-6 years and will go through the implementation of obamacare. I don't think that anyone can predict what will happen to any medical specialty.

Anyway, despite the outlook on this forum about the future of the pathology market - the people who post here are pathologists, not economists. The outlook portrayed by economic data supports an aging and shrinking population of pathologists and predicts shortages - that idea is openly mocked here by some, but it at least warrants some consideration.

 

[TGF beta1]

I am an International medical graduate, US permanent resident. I applied for residency previous year with the following credentials:

Step 1 251
Step 2 CK 244
Step 2 CS Second Attempt

No US clinical experience

I applied for residency with failed CS in ERAS. I applied to 46 pathology programs and 53 Internal Medicine programs. Out of that I got 5 calls from pathology and 2 calls from internal medicine. I got ECFMG certified in December 2012. I matched to a university pathology program. I would not say it is a top program but it is ranked somewhere at number 50 according to internet sources.

I have heard that current pathology market is really poor. People do not get a job even after fellowship. Should I try to switch to medicine? If yes, what are my chances of matching again next year to family medicine, internal medicine or neurology?.

I would advise you against trying to match next year for the following reasons. 1) despite your high step 1 and 2 scores you have failed CS, which is a red flag in direct patient care centered specialties like IM and FM, 2) you are IMG, 3) No US clinical experience - again big red flag for IM and FM, 4) when you will interview next year PDs will ask you - why did you leave your PGY1 position in pathology and despite whatever you say (change of heart or bad jobs market) it is a BIG red flag.
Unless you wholeheartedly hate Pathology, apply yourself well and you'll get a job. Although may be after several fellowships🙂

 

[yaah]

You should look elsewhere for a rewarding and profitable career. I would flee pathology as you are likely to have to do at least 2 fellowships, maybe more, and then be stuck in a job (if you get one) where a businessman/administrator scrapes off the majority of the profit from your work.

The field of medicine has many avenues towards taking control of your career in your own hands. Pursue that!!!!

I am curious just how you think other fields are doing so much better in this regard - do you ever talk to other clinicians? They complain even more about administrators, business types, lack of control over their own career, etc. You can try carving out certain niches in other fields, sure, but you can try that in pathology too if you really want.

As I have said many times, one has to be very careful when doing these types of comparisons that you aren't comparing the worst case scenario in one field to the best case scenario in another one.

 

[2121115]

Getting a job is hard enough for AMGs, I can't imagine how it would be for an IMG. Do what you have to do, but you are already behind the 8 ball in the pathology job market competition. Do an honest self assessment, and don't be afraid to cut bait if necessary. I've known many an IMG who took a pathology spot to get into the US and then transferred to IM or family medicine. It can be done.

 

[MetroPath]

I am an International medical graduate, US permanent resident. I applied for residency previous year with the following credentials:

Step 1 251
Step 2 CK 244
Step 2 CS Second Attempt

No US clinical experience

I applied for residency with failed CS in ERAS. I applied to 46 pathology programs and 53 Internal Medicine programs. Out of that I got 5 calls from pathology and 2 calls from internal medicine. I got ECFMG certified in December 2012. I matched to a university pathology program. I would not say it is a top program but it is ranked somewhere at number 50 according to internet sources.

I have heard that current pathology market is really poor. People do not get a job even after fellowship. Should I try to switch to medicine? If yes, what are my chances of matching again next year to family medicine, internal medicine or neurology?.

Dude do what you love. IM and Pathology are two drastically different fields. I could never be happy in internal medicine. Asking ppl what you should do on an anonymous board in regards to your future is just ridiculous.

 

[cyborg88]

Dude do what you love. IM and Pathology are two drastically different fields. I could never be happy in internal medicine. Asking ppl what you should do on an anonymous board in regards to your future is just ridiculous.

You are right ... I should not be asking such questions and do only what I love regardless of the job market.
The thing is when I applied for pathology I did not do it because I loved it...I never did a rotation in pathology. I was only exposed to medical school pathology -i studied Robbins cover to cover-but I never did much practical lab work. I thought I would not get a single interview but for whatever reason I did.
I will be starting my residency in July...and unless I totally dislike pathology I will not be going for next year's match.

 

[2121115]

You are right ... I should not be asking such questions and do only what I love regardless of the job market.
The thing is when I applied for pathology I did not do it because I loved it...I never did a rotation in pathology. I was only exposed to medical school pathology -i studied Robbins cover to cover-but I never did much practical lab work. I thought I would not get a single interview but for whatever reason I did.
I will be starting my residency in July...and unless I totally dislike pathology I will not be going for next year's match.

Ok then. But remember, for the average joe being IMG makes it tough. Sure, everyone will cite Rosai and the like as counter examples, but they are the exception not the rule.

 

[MetroPath]

Ok then. But remember, for the average joe being IMG makes it tough. Sure, everyone will cite Rosai and the like as counter examples, but they are the exception not the rule.

I know IMGs who have jobs and they are graduates. If you are a crappy IMG candidate I am sure you will have a tough time. Lets not kid ourselves, there are a lot of IMGs in pathology. They were your attendings in residency and fellowship. I would say about 50% or more at some academic institutions.

 

[MetroPath]

You are right ... I should not be asking such questions and do only what I love regardless of the job market.
The thing is when I applied for pathology I did not do it because I loved it...I never did a rotation in pathology. I was only exposed to medical school pathology -i studied Robbins cover to cover-but I never did much practical lab work. I thought I would not get a single interview but for whatever reason I did.
I will be starting my residency in July...and unless I totally dislike pathology I will not be going for next year's match.

If you have good board scores and speak English well, you can get into Pathology. You just have to say "I like Pathology."