Pathology--who picks this?

[summertime02]

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Hi I am and have been for quite some time, interested in becoming a pathologist. I was just wondering if anyone knew where the best places to get path residencies are and how competitive it is to get them? I was hoping for something in the MD or PA area and don't know where to start looking for them, I am only a 2nd year so I know I have some time but still...it's never too early to research! Thanks!

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
I was very interested in Pathology and did a paid Pathology fellowship the summer between my second and third year. I was totally leaning toward Path until I did Surgery and fell in love with it.

While I was doing my Path fellowship(through the ASCP), the places that came up constantly were Hopkins and University of Maryland. Hopkins was considered fairly malignant but U of MD was pretty highly rated because of location and faculty.

The other place that I found very attractive was Mayo Clinic in MN. The path folks there were great teachers (I did an AI) and loved what they were doing. I had a great interest in Transfusion Medicine and Forensics so Mayo had lots of great experience for me.

Though I decided to pursue Surgery, I still spend lots of time with the Pathologists during Tumor Board. I loved to look at my frozen sections and I still find Transfusion Medicine pretty interesting.

Path is a wondeful lifestyle and you can "mind everyone's business" to a certain degree. I found the lectures and conferences at Mayo to be totally interesting. There was something new to learn and observe everyday. I learned to do a great autopsy and how to systematically look for clues. I also got a couple of weeks in an urban Medical Examiner's office which was totally awesome.

Path has gotten more competitive for obvious reasons: money and lifestyle but do your homework early and make some contacts. I have never regretted a single hour that I spent in my Path AI and fellowship.

Good luck!

njbmd

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to the Pathology Forum...

 

[ckent]

If you are an american med student, you should not have any trouble getting one of your top choices for path as most spots are filled by IMG's. As for making yourself more competetive, I've heard that doing well in your pre-clinical years helps. And of course research helps as well, but again, path is so non-competetive, that if you just apply with nothing special on your app, you will probably get into a pretty good program. It probably helps to get a low grade in psych too, to show that you can't talk with patients and you know nothing about psych 😉 .

 

[Weil-Felix]

Oh, crap! I accidentally honored psych! Now what?!😛

 

[Mindy]

ckent said: "path is so non-competetive, that if you just apply with nothing special on your app, you will probably get into a pretty good program."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ckent, I am not sure you know what you are talking about.

MGH has only 1 *OUTSTANDING* FMG only this year. There are 3 phd's, several AOA's, 2 post-sophomore fellows, and medical schools from across the country represented in the first year class of seven.

While it is true in the past that pathology was less competitive than other specialties, the last few years have displayed a strong upward trend in difficulty of obtaining a top position. Uniformly, the prgrams I interviewed at expressed how excellent the applicants were for the 2003/04 year. Considering that the number of residency positions available is equivalent to only 2 to 3 applicants per medical school, an applicant would be disadvantaged to believe they could waltz into any program they wanted to with "nothing special on your app".

As far as psychiatry is concerned, I fence-road between which of the 2 fields I was going to pursue (path v. psych.) In fact, some old time board members may remember my ramblings about how many pathologists seem interested in psychiatry and vice-versa. In fact, one of the path-oriented PSF's in my class ultimately decided to pursue shrink-hood. A good pathologist will have well-honed communication skills so they can sensitively and accurately relay life-altering information to clinicians. I really caution against falling so quickly into stereotypes.

Mindy

 

[ckent]

Originally posted by Mindy
ckent said: "path is so non-competetive, that if you just apply with nothing special on your app, you will probably get into a pretty good program."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ckent, I am not sure you know what you are talking about.

MGH has only 1 *OUTSTANDING* FMG only this year. There are 3 phd's, several AOA's, 2 post-sophomore fellows, and medical schools from across the country represented in the first year class of seven.

While it is true in the past that pathology was less competitive than other specialties, the last few years have displayed a strong upward trend in difficulty of obtaining a top position. Uniformly, the prgrams I interviewed at expressed how excellent the applicants were for the 2003/04 year. Considering that the number of residency positions available is equivalent to only 2 to 3 applicants per medical school, an applicant would be disadvantaged to believe they could waltz into any program they wanted to with "nothing special on your app".

As far as psychiatry is concerned, I fence-road between which of the 2 fields I was going to pursue (path v. psych.) In fact, some old time board members may remember my ramblings about how many pathologists seem interested in psychiatry and vice-versa. In fact, one of the path-oriented PSF's in my class ultimately decided to pursue shrink-hood. A good pathologist will have well-honed communication skills so they can sensitively and accurately relay life-altering information to clinicians. I really caution against falling so quickly into stereotypes.

Mindy

If you re-read what I wrote, I said that if you don't have anything special on your program, you can still "probably get into a pretty good program", not MGH. And I did say that research helps, so it's no surprise that you have a number of PhD's at MGH. The fact that you still have one IMG out of seven at MGH, and how IMG's make up so many of the pathology residents at university programs does suggest that AMG's have a pretty easy time getting into good programs. Finally, "well-honed communication skills so they can sensitively and accurately life-altering information to clinicians"? Since when do clinician's "feelings" matter? I've never heard a clinician complain that the pathologists shouldn't have sounded so callous and cold when conveying the bad path results over the phone, but I guess that you have more experience in the matter then I do.

 

[rirriri]

Originally posted by ckent
Finally, "well-honed communication skills so they can sensitively and accurately life-altering information to clinicians"? Since when do clinician's "feelings" matter? I've never heard a clinician complain that the pathologists shouldn't have sounded so callous and cold when conveying the bad path results over the phone, but I guess that you have more experience in the matter then I do.

it is sad but true that in a few of the hospitals i have been to/worked at, the pathologist IS regarded as a cold and dry individual who has nothing to offer the clinician aside from a statement regarding what was sent to him/her. no one in the wards wanted to talk to the pathology department....they would all dread it.

i don't think it's like this at all hospitals, but i have seen this and i didn't like it. maybe our generation of pathologists will help change this "image".

maybe if the clinicians weren't all so "happy go lucky let's fix the patient temporarily to send him home so that we can see him again in 1 week" and if pathologists were more communicative in the hospital i worked at...things would have been better.

we will change this.

cheers

 

[Weil-Felix]

To comment on something Mindy mentioned in her post: I am shocked at how many people in pathology have been torn between psychiatry and pathology at one point. There is even a path resident at my school who did a couple of years in a psych residency and then changed to path. I was contemplating psych vs. path after I got done with my psych rotation and loved it. (I have since made up my mind to go path, however.) My other classmate who is thinking about path is still torn between path and psych.

It's a fascinating observation, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Perhaps it's because of the intensely intellectual quality of both fields? I dunno.

And as far as the stereotype of pathologists as being cold, social misfits. Yeah, I have noticed this too at my school. Several times, when I have told people that I'm going into path, the response is: "Whaaat? You're WAY too nice and sociable to be a pathologist!" I'm not quite sure if I should take it as a compliment or an insult. I just don't get it. The pathologists at my institution are as a whole some of the nicest, most approachable people in the hospital. Where do they get this reputation? Don't get it at all.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

"Cold, dry, social misfit" typical stereotype with not much reality. Sure you can find examples, but most of the residents and attendings I have met do not come close. I would say if anything path has some of the warmest and happiest people. It is one of the fields that is attractive to type B personallity folks like myself. It is also attractive to people that value lifestyle issues.

And, some of the things said seem to imply that pathologists do not interact with patients....think again. Not only that pathologist are responsible for sometimes hundreds of employees depending on the size of the hospital. So having decent social interaction skills is critical to becoming a good pathologist.

The field has been getting more competitive. A US grad can be pretty much assured of a spot somewhere, but it also may be at a place they didn't want to go. Many of the mid level institutions were much picker about who they interviewed and who they ranked this last year. The top institutions have always been pretty picky even in the worst of times for path. The FMGs you see that gained admission in programs like MGH were not because they were forced to accept them, it is because they wanted them. They were probably outstanding, superstar candidates with tons of research and great connections within the path world.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Mindy
A good pathologist will have well-honed communication skills so they can sensitively and accurately relay life-altering information to clinicians. I really caution against falling so quickly into stereotypes. Mindy

This has certainily been my observation about the pathology residents and pathologists at NIH. At the weekly pathology conferences in urologic oncology, it's the IM residents that could most use a "personality transplant"

 

[Doctor B.]

The Great Pumpkin is right. Nearly all of the pathologists I've worked with are friendly and well-adjusted. In fact, many surgeons will come by to look at biopsy results and will chat with the pathologist for a few minutes as well. The old rumor that pathologist don't have to deal with living people is very false. We talk to other physicians, ancillary staff and medical students every day. In blood bank, we talk to patients. On forensics, we talk to the coroners, detectives and to the families of the deceased. People skills are a great asset no matter what area of medicine you go into.

 

[spinestudent]

I don't think ckent meant that anyone can waltz into MGH, Hopkins, etc. He means that any american grad(and many IMGs) can get into a decent university program somewhere.

And that's the case in any non-competitive specialty. The worst applicants aren't going to be able to waltz in and take top spots in psychiatry or neurology either, two fields with similar match distributions.