Pay Potential

[Cardiothoracic]

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Earlier I was researching the job descriptions of surgeons and dentists. One thing led to another and salary came up. I came upon a few topics on this board that discussed the issue, and I was shocked to see people claiming that dentists made money in the millions annually. What is the potential pay of experienced doctors? If you decide to open up your own clinic; what would be the average annual salary? I realize that most medical clinics are revolved around either dentistry, optometry, or family practice (including pediatricians). I am mostly interested in cardiology and cardiothoracic surgery. What would be the potential prospects of a cardiology/cardiothoracic clinic? I'm guessing that it won't be anywhere near as successful as a dentistry. Anyways, I'm just interested in the "what if" circumstances of clinics. I guess what I'm trying to ask in a nutshell is if its realistic to expect millions of dollars annually in the medical field, and how much you could potentially make by opening up your own clinic. I'd also like the know which medical profession/concentration makes the most on average, and which one could make the most. Thank you for taking the time to read all this, and don't think that I'm interested in the medical field just because of the money. I hope I don't come off as that, its just curiosity.

 

[mcloaf]

Earlier I was researching the job descriptions of surgeons and dentists. One thing led to another and salary came up. I came upon a few topics on this board that discussed the issue, and I was shocked to see people claiming that dentists made money in the millions annually. What is the potential pay of experienced doctors? If you decide to open up your own clinic; what would be the average annual salary? I realize that most medical clinics are revolved around either dentistry, optometry, or family practice (including pediatricians). I am mostly interested in cardiology and cardiothoracic surgery. What would be the potential prospects of a cardiology/cardiothoracic clinic? I'm guessing that it won't be anywhere near as successful as a dentistry. Anyways, I'm just interested in the "what if" circumstances of clinics. I guess what I'm trying to ask in a nutshell is if its realistic to expect millions of dollars annually in the medical field, and how much you could potentially make by opening up your own clinic. I'd also like the know which medical profession/concentration makes the most on average, and which one could make the most. Thank you for taking the time to read all this, and don't think that I'm interested in the medical field just because of the money. I hope I don't come off as that, its just curiosity.

 

[Spinach Dip]

The number of physicians making "millions a year" is ~ lim ---> 0

The number making enough to support themselves and their family is pretty good, though.

 

[Cardiothoracic]

Somebody that's striving for a certain profession can't ask the potential pay of it without being money driven?

EDIT: For anyone wondering where I came upon the information that dentists make money in the millions:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=243780

 

[mcloaf]

Somebody that's striving for a certain profession can't ask the potential pay of it without being money driven?

EDIT: For anyone wondering where I came upon the information that dentists make money in the millions:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=243780

If your question were about whether or not you could live comfortably as a cardiologist/CT surgeon I might buy your argument (though it would be a silly question).

Since you're instead asking about how reasonable it is to expect to make a over a million dollars a year and it seems to concern you that you might be able to make more as a dentist, you'll have to forgive me if I don't take you super seriously.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with money being a factor in your decision, I just thought it was pretty funny to say that your original post wasn't money driven, since it clearly is.

 

[Cardiothoracic]

If your question were about whether or not you could live comfortably as a cardiologist/CT surgeon I might buy your argument (though it would be a silly question).

Since you're instead asking about how reasonable it is to expect to make a over a million dollars a year and it seems to concern you that you might be able to make more as a dentist, you'll have to forgive me if I don't take you super seriously.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with money being a factor in your decision, I just thought it was pretty funny to say that your original post wasn't money driven, since it clearly is.

No need to. I didn't take your comments as being offensive. Let me make myself clear; money is a factor. I said "don't think that I'm interested in the medical field just because of the money". I find medicine to be an interesting career field all around. Money is just a bonus.

 

[Geebeejay]

Earlier I was researching the job descriptions of surgeons and dentists. One thing led to another and salary came up. I came upon a few topics on this board that discussed the issue, and I was shocked to see people claiming that dentists made money in the millions annually. What is the potential pay of experienced doctors? If you decide to open up your own clinic; what would be the average annual salary? I realize that most medical clinics are revolved around either dentistry, optometry, or family practice (including pediatricians). I am mostly interested in cardiology and cardiothoracic surgery. What would be the potential prospects of a cardiology/cardiothoracic clinic? I'm guessing that it won't be anywhere near as successful as a dentistry. Anyways, I'm just interested in the "what if" circumstances of clinics. I guess what I'm trying to ask in a nutshell is if its realistic to expect millions of dollars annually in the medical field, and how much you could potentially make by opening up your own clinic. I'd also like the know which medical profession/concentration makes the most on average, and which one could make the most. Thank you for taking the time to read all this, and don't think that I'm interested in the medical field just because of the money. I hope I don't come off as that, its just curiosity.

Probably the most anticlimactic and disappointing "one thing led to another" story I've ever read.

 

[tantacles]

Earlier I was researching the job descriptions of surgeons and dentists. One thing led to another and salary came up. I came upon a few topics on this board that discussed the issue, and I was shocked to see people claiming that dentists made money in the millions annually. What is the potential pay of experienced doctors? If you decide to open up your own clinic; what would be the average annual salary? I realize that most medical clinics are revolved around either dentistry, optometry, or family practice (including pediatricians). I am mostly interested in cardiology and cardiothoracic surgery. What would be the potential prospects of a cardiology/cardiothoracic clinic? I'm guessing that it won't be anywhere near as successful as a dentistry. Anyways, I'm just interested in the "what if" circumstances of clinics. I guess what I'm trying to ask in a nutshell is if its realistic to expect millions of dollars annually in the medical field, and how much you could potentially make by opening up your own clinic. I'd also like the know which medical profession/concentration makes the most on average, and which one could make the most. Thank you for taking the time to read all this, and don't think that I'm interested in the medical field just because of the money. I hope I don't come off as that, its just curiosity.

It's not realistic to make millions of dollars by opening your own clinic unless the clinic, over the course of many years, expands to the point where you are managing hundreds of physicians.

The only doctors (and dentists) who make that much money are ones you see on television.

 

[Daneosaurus]

It's not realistic to make millions of dollars by opening your own clinic unless the clinic, over the course of many years, expands to the point where you are managing hundreds of physicians.

The only doctors (and dentists) who make that much money are ones you see on television.

Speakin' da troof^

 

[UCLAzy]

1.5 million gross versus 1.5 million take home is very different. you clearly didnt read the thread you referenced. overhead is a large factor in any small business, something you should familiarize yourself with if you're going to lurk in the dental section

 

[nysegop]

The number of physicians making "millions a year" is ~ lim ---> 0

The number making enough to support themselves and their family is pretty good, though.

Actually I read about this one physician who managed several hospitals and made about $2,000,000, but he had an MBA and was more focused on business but still did a little bit of practicing.

Basically no, becoming a doctor won't make you a millionaire.

After 4 years of undergrad, and 4 years of medical school you're about $206,000 in debt (Ben Bernanke's son has $400,000 in medical school debt). After that you can expect to make about minimum wage for the next 3-8 years (depending on specialty). If you want to make money, go into finance or computer science. Only become a doctor if you like the science and the people.

 

[jr93]

Actually I read about this one physician who managed several hospitals and made about $2,000,000, but he had an MBA and was more focused on business but still did a little bit of practicing.

Basically no, becoming a doctor won't make you a millionaire.

After 4 years of undergrad, and 4 years of medical school you're about $206,000 in debt (Ben Bernanke's son has $400,000 in medical school debt). After that you can expect to make about minimum wage for the next 3-8 years (depending on specialty). If you want to make money, go into finance or computer science. Only become a doctor if you like the science and the people.

Average residency pay right now is around 47k if I'm not mistaken. Low for a physician but far from minimum wage.

 

[alerk323]

Getting that magical MD opens up plenty of doors. You're in a rare group of people who consistently make an large income every year, opening up the door for business/investment opportunities that otherwise would not be there. Sure, you're income will probably not be over a million dollars solely through clinical work but all the ways you would normally make money and more are available to you as a physician.

Lots of people downplay the difficulty of making such a large amount of money, they seem to think "oh if i didn't go to med school i could just be a banker and make millions". That's just now how it works

 

[PennDippody]

Actually I read about this one physician who managed several hospitals and made about $2,000,000, but he had an MBA and was more focused on business but still did a little bit of practicing.

Basically no, becoming a doctor won't make you a millionaire.

After 4 years of undergrad, and 4 years of medical school you're about $206,000 in debt (Ben Bernanke's son has $400,000 in medical school debt). After that you can expect to make about minimum wage for the next 3-8 years (depending on specialty). If you want to make money, go into finance or computer science. Only become a doctor if you like the science and the people.

so rediculous

 

[anegron519]

.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Average residency pay right now is around 47k if I'm not mistaken. Low for a physician but far from minimum wage.

Precisely.

OP, no becoming a physician/dentist will likely not make you a millionaire. What it will do, is allow you plenty of liquidity to live a very comfortable lifestyle. Doctors DO make a good deal of money, and are among the top income earners in the country.

Some of you really need some perspective, however. To pretend that money is not a motivating factor in choosing a field that requires this immense amount of work to enter is disingenuous. If money is your only motivation, it's not worth it - there are ways to make an equal amount that do not require the same amount of work. For example, my mother's ex never even graduated college, but he is a very successful small business owner. He owns ~85 apartment units and rents them out almost exclusively to college students. He, and his 3 assistants, do 100% of the work/maintenance/repairs and nets ~500k/yr.

 

[occams_razor]

there are plastic surgeons and dermatologists that make well over a million dollars a year doing cosmetic work (note: this is not the norm for those specialties either). my dad has a friend who is a plastic surgeon in NYC and he apparently makes 4 million a year. cardiologists..not so much
don't go into medicine for money because most likely you will live a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle, be able to support your family, but you will not be a millionaire

 

[Daneosaurus]

there are plastic surgeons and dermatologists that make well over a million dollars a year doing cosmetic work (note: this is not the norm for those specialties either). my dad has a friend who is a plastic surgeon in NYC and he apparently makes 4 million a year. cardiologists..not so much
don't go into medicine for money because most likely you will live a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle, be able to support your family, but you will not be a millionaire

Quite right. Those making those making 7 figures are the exception, not the rule.

 

[survivordo]

Basically no, becoming a doctor won't make you a millionaire.

Just to be clear- you will become a millionaire (have greater than 1 million in assets) then again, most people these days do. You will not make more than 1 million a year.

No harm in asking about money, it's important to consider, but most of this information is readily available and fluctuates greatly depending on practice environment.

Survivor DO

 

[Daneosaurus]

Just to be clear- you will become a millionaire (have greater than 1 million in assets) then again, most people these days do. You will not make more than 1 million a year.

No harm in asking about money, it's important to consider, but most of this information is readily available and fluctuates greatly depending on practice environment.

Survivor DO

I think we were all assuming he meant salary.

 

[circulus vitios]

After that you can expect to make about minimum wage for the next 3-8 years (depending on specialty). If you want to make money, go into finance or computer science. Only become a doctor if you like the science and the people.

Even if you work 80 hours a week every week for 52 weeks out of the year, you're still making $12/hour on a $50k/year resident's salary.

The average guy in 'finance' or 'computer science' is lucky to break $125k by 30 years of age. Even FM physicians pull down $175-200k/year by 30.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Even if you work 80 hours a week every week for 52 weeks out of the year, you're still making $12/hour on a $50k/year resident's salary.

The average guy in 'finance' or 'computer science' is lucky to break $125k by 30 years of age. Even FM physicians pull down $175-200k/year by 30.

Unless you are 28 upon matriculating to med school😎

 

[kmp0410]

The difference between making pretty good money and really really good money in that type of sense will be alot about business sense.

I know a Podiatrist who makes a tonnnn of money because he owns 2 practices, is very smart with running them, and does surgeries at a hospital.

 

[Iso4ane]

The number of physicians making "millions a year" is ~ lim ---> 0

The number making enough to support themselves and their family is pretty good, though.

If by millions (plural)/year you mean 2mil and up then probably. But, there are a handful that do crack the 1 million dollar mark (top 1% spinal surgeons).

 

[sinombre]

Average residency pay right now is around 47k if I'm not mistaken. Low for a physician but far from minimum wage.

Not when you factor in 80 hours per week... it comes out to just under 12 an hour. Not far from minimum wage at all.

Even if you work 80 hours a week every week for 52 weeks out of the year, you're still making $12/hour on a $50k/year resident's salary.

The average guy in 'finance' or 'computer science' is lucky to break $125k by 30 years of age. Even FM physicians pull down $175-200k/year by 30.

Yep, but $12 an hour is really, really hard to live off of (at least in California).

 

[nysegop]

Not when you factor in 80 hours per week... it comes out to just under 12 an hour. Not far from minimum wage at all.



Yep, but $12 an hour is really, really hard to live off of (at least in California).

👍

 

[Daneosaurus]

Not when you factor in 80 hours per week... it comes out to just under 12 an hour. Not far from minimum wage at all.



Yep, but $12 an hour is really, really hard to live off of (at least in California).

Hate to burst your bubble, but federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr. The Feds have proposed a bill this month that will raise it to 10.10/hr, but like most potentially good things, the govt will find a way to screw it up via too many compromises or GOP obstructionism (yet again).

 

[Daneosaurus]

Not when you factor in 80 hours per week... it comes out to just under 12 an hour. Not far from minimum wage at all.



Yep, but $12 an hour is really, really hard to live off of (at least in California).

Uh...federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr nearly half 12/hr. Get some perspective, some people have it really bad monetarily.

 

[sinombre]

Hate to burst your bubble, but federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr. The Feds have proposed a bill this month that will raise it to 10.10/hr, but like most potentially good things, the govt will find a way to screw it up via too many compromises or GOP obstructionism (yet again).

I guess I don't see that as far from minimum wage, but when you make that little, a few dollars an hour can make a huge difference. So point taken. Still, the thought of making that little with that much debt is terrifying. And I don't doubt the last part of your post.

-Sent from my iPhone

 

[sinombre]

Uh...federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr nearly half 12/hr. Get some perspective, some people have it really bad monetarily.

I know, I am one of those people.

-Sent from my iPhone

 

[Daneosaurus]

Sinombre, I apologize for double posting with basically the same info. I just downloaded the SDN app and I didn't see my first one posted, so I posted again.

 

[nysegop]

Chances are if you can get into medical school, you can get into a higher paying finance job. My teacher knows a couple of buddies from college that went to Goldman and had starting salaries of >$100 K, within 5 years they were making over $250 K. No graduate degree. They had perfect GPAs and went to an Ivy mind you.

 

[235009]

don't forget you also get 4 weeks of vacation so you actually end up making about twice the minimum wage ($14-ish per hour) depending on the cost of living in your residency's location. the whole minimum wage during residency is no longer true with work hour restrictions.

Chances are if you can get into medical school, you can get into a higher paying finance job. My teacher knows a couple of buddies from college that went to Goldman and had starting salaries of >$100 K, within 5 years they were making over $250 K. No graduate degree. They had perfect GPAs and went to an Ivy mind you.

this whole post is ridiculous. specifically though the first bolded statement is simply not true as you so astutely showed with the second bolded statement. you really have to be very smart, have the proper pedigree and have a degree in certain fields (typically engineering, math, econ ....NOT a basic science like bio) to land a job like that ....so that eliminates the VAST majority of med students. Even then you have to work an insane amount to claw your way up the corporate ladder. There's no get rich quick scheme.

 

[sinombre]

don't forget you also get 4 weeks of vacation so you actually end up making about twice the minimum wage ($14-ish per hour) depending on the cost of living in your residency's location. the whole minimum wage during residency is no longer true with work hour restrictions.

4 weeks of vacation? Not too shabby.

 

[nysegop]

don't forget you also get 4 weeks of vacation so you actually end up making about twice the minimum wage ($14-ish per hour) depending on the cost of living in your residency's location. the whole minimum wage during residency is no longer true with work hour restrictions.



this whole post is ridiculous. specifically though the first bolded statement is simply not true as you so astutely showed with the second bolded statement. you really have to be very smart, have the proper pedigree and have a degree in certain fields (typically engineering, math, econ ....NOT a basic science like bio) to land a job like that ....so that eliminates the VAST majority of med students. Even then you have to work an insane amount to claw your way up the corporate ladder. There's no get rich quick scheme.

To say that there is "no get rich quick scheme" is utterly ridiculous. It's not very common, but it certainly does happen. I had a business teacher last year who was making $130 K out of college. That's not super high, but he had very low debt and that was his starting paycheck (He actually makes less than he used to in his prime. Now he does teaching and consulting). Of course there is no guaranteed way to get rich, but the point is you can become wealthy in any field if you excel. In the 7-11 years it takes students to complete medical training, someone in finance could certainly have climbed a few ladders. I'm not recommending business/finance by the way. Personally I think business is one of the most boring subjects on earth.

 

[circulus vitios]

To say that there is "no get rich quick scheme" is utterly ridiculous. It's not very common, but it certainly does happen. I had a business teacher last year who was making $130 K out of college. That's not super high, but he had very low debt and that was his starting paycheck (He actually makes less than he used to in his prime. Now he does teaching and consulting). Of course there is no guaranteed way to get rich, but the point is you can become wealthy in any field if you excel. In the 7-11 years it takes students to complete medical training, someone in finance could certainly have climbed a few ladders. I'm not recommending business/finance by the way. Personally I think business is one of the most boring subjects on earth.

Getting into a finance doctorate program makes getting into med school look like a joke. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[getdown]

Uh...federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr nearly half 12/hr. Get some perspective, some people have it really bad monetarily.

Yes, it's true that those making 7.25/hr have it bad but a majority (I'm not saying all) of those making minimum wage don't have any type of degree or marketable skills and aren't involved in life and death decision making. For a resident who've put in 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school and working 10-14 hour days ... that's pretty bad. Granted that's what we signed up for and the pay increases exponentially as you become an attending but it's still pretty bad for the amount of schooling you've done.

 

[nysegop]

Getting into a finance doctorate program makes getting into med school look like a joke. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I didn't say that he got into a "doctorate program". He had only finished undergraduate school when he was making that salary. He went back to school after some years of employment so he could teach college students.

 

[jd989898]

My dad is an ER doctor and makes as much as the average engineer if he worked 2 days per month. Obviously medicine pays well... but if you truly just want to be rich, then you should probably try to start your own business. I honestly think that anyone who thinks it's worth it to just go into medicine for the money doesn't understand how much work it is to become a physician.

 

[Bluto385]

My dad is an ER doctor and makes as much as the average engineer if he worked 2 days per month. Obviously medicine pays well... but if you truly just want to be rich, then you should probably try to start your own business. I honestly think that anyone who thinks it's worth it to just go into medicine for the money doesn't understand how much work it is to become a physician.

Easier said than done when over 50% of small businesses fail within five years of their inception.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Yes, it's true that those making 7.25/hr have it bad but a majority (I'm not saying all) of those making minimum wage don't have any type of degree or marketable skills and aren't involved in life and death decision making. For a resident who've put in 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school and working 10-14 hour days ... that's pretty bad. Granted that's what we signed up for and the pay increases exponentially as you become an attending but it's still pretty bad for the amount of schooling you've done.

I was in the Marine Corps for 6 years, with multiple deployments - I know life and death decisions well. I never made 50K in a year, except for the extra bonuses you get when in a hot desert for 9 months.

 

[circulus vitios]

Easier said than done when over 50% of small businesses fail within five years of their inception.

I like how people say "start a business" while neglecting that tiny little thing that makes a business successful: an idea or a product.

 

[sinombre]

Easier said than done when over 50% of small businesses fail within five years of their inception.

Good point, but what percentage of freshman pre-meds end up getting in to medical school? Even the majority of those that get far enough in the process to apply won't be accepted.

 

[Bluto385]

Good point, but what percentage of freshman pre-meds end up getting in to medical school? Even the majority of those that get far enough in the process to apply won't be accepted.

Not sure what you're insinuating here. Is it that the odds of getting rich are statistically better for a random pre-med freshman if they opt out of the med school route to start a small business?

 

[nysegop]

👍

Lots of self-selection amongst pre-meds.

 

[SamyLSF]

Probably the most anticlimactic and disappointing "one thing led to another" story I've ever read.

That made me lol, not gonna lie.

 

[nvnme]

It's not realistic to make millions of dollars by opening your own clinic unless the clinic, over the course of many years, expands to the point where you are managing hundreds of physicians.

The only doctors (and dentists) who make that much money are ones you see on television.

Bit off topic but that avatar really brings back memories. Never could beat the damn thing, though. The final boss was impossible and disc four broke during a move.