Paying off loans - How do you do it?

[SearchSquad]

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Guys, how in the world do optometrists pay off their loans? I have been doing a lot of calculating and research recently (preparing for my financial grave digging). It seems like it will be impossible to do so within ten years. I used an online loan calculator (www.finaid.com/calculators) and it gives you the expected salary you must earn in order for the monthly loan repayment to be 10% of your monthly income. Frankly, I don't think most optometrists earn this much. It was in the $200,000 area...

So what do people do? Take 30 years to pay off the loans?

 

[eyestrain]

So what do people do? Take 30 years to pay off the loans?

Yes. Some of us were lucky enough to get most of our loans when interest rates were around 3%, so the 30 year plan isn't a bad idea.

 

[BKK]

1) Live on a good, detailed budget that tells your money how to behave.

2) Give yourself a raise to where are above the "student" standard of living, but well below what your annual income is. Make $70-80K, live on $40K. Use the difference to knock out your student loan. Don't spend more than you earn.

3) Don't take the easy credit offers. Don't finance/lease a new car.

I wish that I would have taken this advice 11 years ago when I graduated...

BK

 

[still_confused]

1) Live on a good, detailed budget that tells your money how to behave.

2) Give yourself a raise to where are above the "student" standard of living, but well below what your annual income is. Make $70-80K, live on $40K. Use the difference to knock out your student loan. Don't spend more than you earn.

3) Don't take the easy credit offers. Don't finance/lease a new car.

I wish that I would have taken this advice 11 years ago when I graduated...

BK

good plan 👍. its easy to pay off loans even at 7%. in fact its too easy and theres only one rule, most students are doing that now:

DONT BUY THINGS YOU CANT AFFORD!

-say no to : BMW, rolex, bananna republic, gold chain, plasma tv, fancy dinners etc

-plenty of ppl live on les then 20k a year (and they have debt) i know because that was my family (socal so dont give me cost of living crap). if you cant live on an optometrist salary and pay off your debt, then you are an embarassment.

-cant stand not living the "doctor" lifestyle and in McMansions with country club membership? optometry is not for you

 

[optogirl21]

I'm just curious, for those of you who are currently practicing Optometrists with debt, how much debt did you have when you got out of school and how long will it take you to pay off your loan completely? How much are you putting towards the loans per year? The example the previous poster gave about having a $70-80k salary and living off only $40k per year seems reasonable to me, for a few years. But how long would you have to do this before paying off loans and finally living off the full $70k?

 

[paremyd]

I owed 90K when I graduated in 1998. I paid the minimum payments to my student loans. I paid on time for 4 years and was eligible for a reduction in rates. My monthly was about 1200/month. This was a 10 year plan.

After paying about 50K (5-6 years), I decided that I needed the cash flow to buy a house, get married/raise kids and finance an office.

I still owe ~38K and pay about 225/month stretched out over 30 years. The rate is a little under 5 percent.

The words of wisdom is not to borrow too much. The fear is that the more your borrow, the higher your monthly payment will be. Do not be in a hurry to pay off your loan unless you have nothing better to do with the extra money. You should save it for a rainy day, down payment on a house, or down payment on an office.

If you get married and have any type of debt i.e. house, car, business loan, both persons are responsible for the debt. If you have student loan debt and you die, your spouse does not assume that debt.

 

[SearchSquad]

I paid on time for 4 years and was eligible for a reduction in rates.

Are you saying your interest is reduced? This way you can afford to extend your repayment for 30 years?

I was also thinking more on the lines of weddings, babies, and homes not the rolexes that someone mentioned in that bitter post. So thanks for addressing that. I guess it just seems a little depressing to be indebted for such a long time!

 

[eyestrain]

Are you saying your interest is reduced? This way you can afford to extend your repayment for 30 years?

Yes, for example, my one big consolidated loan is at something like 4.25%. If I do automatic withdraw payments, I get an immediate 0.25% reduction. After 33 months of on-time payments, I get an additional 1% reduction, dropping the rate to 3% for the remainder of the loan.

 

[bournehall]

I graduated in 1983 with GSL of $19,900. Went to SCO and started paying off the loan ASAP. Paid $231 a month for 10 years. Another key that is not mentioned nearly enough is that alot of the debt incurred is to support a lifestyle younger adults have become accustomed to. There is simply no need to acquire much of the debt quoted to go to optometry school.

I'm just curious, for those of you who are currently practicing Optometrists with debt, how much debt did you have when you got out of school and how long will it take you to pay off your loan completely? How much are you putting towards the loans per year? The example the previous poster gave about having a $70-80k salary and living off only $40k per year seems reasonable to me, for a few years. But how long would you have to do this before paying off loans and finally living off the full $70k?

 

[jesskiss312]

I plan to be in near 160k of debt because of school and living in nyc. Any advice so I am not paying my loans off until I am 70?

 

[bournehall]

Ever heard of an 8 ball hyphema? I hope so, because you are behind it. Seriously, how does a recent graduate with this type of debt make it in optometry? There seems to be such a huge oversupply of OD's and the transition into the professional world is getting harder and harder. In NY do most OD's have to go the mercantile route?

I plan to be in near 160k of debt because of school and living in nyc. Any advice so I am not paying my loans off until I am 70?

 

[Opii]

I hate to point out the obvious but many students come from wealthy parents so they do give new comers the false impression it is easy to get out of debt and have a good looking office within a year or two. That's not normal folks, ask yourselves what is going on and dig a little deeper, you'll find out the office was inherited or paid for by the inlaws, dad, etc... Just don't believe everything you see at first glance, optometrists can be very good illusionists and good at patting themselves on their own backs for something they didn't pay for.

 

[blazenmadison]

Ever heard of an 8 ball hyphema? I hope so, because you are behind it. Seriously, how does a recent graduate with this type of debt make it in optometry? There seems to be such a huge oversupply of OD's and the transition into the professional world is getting harder and harder. In NY do most OD's have to go the mercantile route?

is military a better option?

work for the military for 4 years w/ salary around 50-60k
no grad school debt

 

[bournehall]

YES, I know I am prejudiced but the military is a fantastic option. There are loan forgiveness programs and as you move up the ladder pay is not bad at all. This was one of the best decisions I have ever made. Loved the 20 years I spent in the Air Force.

is military a better option?

work for the military for 4 years w/ salary around 50-60k
no grad school debt

 

[cpw]

If I had been single in OD school I definitely would have looked into the military loan option. To be out and debt free 3-4 years after OD school = HEAVEN!

But, I lived at home with family and took out as little as I could to survive. (and still owed 90k) Tuition isn't cheap. Consolidating at a low interest rate makes the payments doable. Make sure you pay off your high interest credit cards FIRST before you try to make ANY dent in your lower interest rate student loans. I know that sounds like common sense, but I've met some people so obsessed with paying off student loans they rack up high credit card debit (which is worse: higher interest, and NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE!)

Although, one thing they don't tell you in school. If you make more than 65k a year... your student loan interest IS NOT tax deductible.

 

[ODhopeful]

If I had been single in OD school I definitely would have looked into the military loan option. To be out and debt free 3-4 years after OD school = HEAVEN!

But, I lived at home with family and took out as little as I could to survive. (and still owed 90k) Tuition isn't cheap. Consolidating at a low interest rate makes the payments doable. Make sure you pay off your high interest credit cards FIRST before you try to make ANY dent in your lower interest rate student loans. I know that sounds like common sense, but I've met some people so obsessed with paying off student loans they rack up high credit card debit (which is worse: higher interest, and NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE!)

Although, one thing they don't tell you in school. If you make more than 65k a year... your student loan interest IS NOT tax deductible.

I remembered from your previous post u said that you got paid over 100,000/yr in Florida. It should be pretty easy to pay off the 90,000 you owe, at least I would think. Please tell me the secret to how u found a job like that, coz that's the highest starting salary i've ever heard. I would love to go to Florida and work there... beach, good weather (except all the hurricans). I want it too!!!!!!!

 

[still_confused]

its easy for an OD to make 100k, most chain/franchise ODs make that if not more

 

[ODhopeful]

its easy for an OD to make 100k, most chain/franchise ODs make that if not more

Walmart.... here I come!!!!! J/K😀

 

[KHE]

its easy for an OD to make 100k, most chain/franchise ODs make that if not more

I respectfully disagree.

The only way to make money in a commercial location is to be the lease holding doctor. If you are an associate of the lease holding doctor, you'll get paid relatively little for a relatively large amount of work. Most commercial doctors are NOT lease holding doctors, they are associates or employees of lease holding doctors. The only ODs I know who are making more than 100k and are not private practice owners or lease holding doctors are working 6-7 days per week.

 

[still_confused]

The only ODs I know who are making more than 100k and are not private practice owners or lease holding doctors are working 6-7 days per week.

thanks for the clarification and sorry for not making it clear. what you described is what i meant. many new grads i know do work 6 days a week to get 100k+ (some guy is up to almost 200k, maybe he works in different time zones to maximize his hours ), but that is what some of the posters want, an 100k job.

personally i have nothing against walmart doctors. its an option just like private practice, VA, military, or teaching. not everyone goes to optometry wantning to fight the evils of commercial and OMDs.

heck all the commercial docs i talk to enjoy the profession and were very active in encouraging me to apply, unlike some of the private doctors on this forum spelling doom and gloom for all.

 

[KHE]

thanks for the clarification and sorry for not making it clear. what you described is what i meant. many new grads i know do work 6 days a week to get 100k+ (some guy is up to almost 200k, maybe he works in different time zones to maximize his hours ), but that is what some of the posters want, an 100k job.

I doubt that most of you out there went to school for all that time and spent all that money and endured all that suffering to work 6 days a week at the mall or Walmart.

personally i have nothing against walmart doctors. its an option just like private practice, VA, military, or teaching. not everyone goes to optometry wantning to fight the evils of commercial and OMDs.

Again, I would bet that if you took a poll of students in your class, you find that 99.9% of them entered optometry school with the vision of one day owning or working in a large gugenheim style private optometric practice. Why then do so many end up at Walmart. I have my suspicions but they aren't really relevant. It is up to you, the students, to plot out your professional future.

heck all the commercial docs i talk to enjoy the profession and were very active in encouraging me to apply, unlike some of the private doctors on this forum spelling doom and gloom for all.

There is no shortage of supply of commercial jobs. I have said repeatedly that you will never starve as an optometrist. You will never default on your student loans. But unless you envision working nights and weekends at the mall, you need to so some serious planning even before you start optometry school.

 

[IndianaOD]

I doubt that most of you out there went to school for all that time and spent all that money and endured all that suffering to work 6 days a week at the mall or Walmart.



Again, I would bet that if you took a poll of students in your class, you find that 99.9% of them entered optometry school with the vision of one day owning or working in a large gugenheim style private optometric practice. Why then do so many end up at Walmart. I have my suspicions but they aren't really relevant. It is up to you, the students, to plot out your professional future.



There is no shortage of supply of commercial jobs. I have said repeatedly that you will never starve as an optometrist. You will never default on your student loans. But unless you envision working nights and weekends at the mall, you need to so some serious planning even before you start optometry school.

I've got some numbers for you. VSP did some surverys with 1st year OD students and recent grads. I think it was 93% wanted to go into private practice, 2-3% commercial (how'd they get into school?) and the rest was academics/research/OMDs.

Reality was less than 50% made it into a private job. It just shows poor planning to me on the part of the students. If you will accept less up front in private, you will make much more and be happier in the long run.

 

[bournehall]

Just think, your parents will be so proud when their friends ask why their child spent 8 years of college to work next to the pots and pans at Wal Mart.

Walmart.... here I come!!!!! J/K😀

 

[IndianaOD]

Just think, your parents will be so proud when their friends ask why their child spent 8 years of college to work next to the pots and pans at Wal Mart.

Around here its usually the slushy machine, guitars, and telescopes. I don't understand why anyone would work commercial.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Around here its usually the slushy machine, guitars, and telescopes. I don't understand why anyone would work commercial.

Because slushys are so tasty 😉. But seriously, if you do not understand why anyone would work commercial, you do not have a clue about the state of our profession. Aren't you getting a little tired of corporate OD bashing? Maybe you are compensating for something else. I have had the opportunity to meet a lot of OD's throughout the country, and one observation that I have made is that typically the most vocal docs with regards to the evils of corporate optometry are the least successful. Maybe that's not the case on this forum, but I can tell you the guys doing 1,2, and even 3 million a year, could care less about the local Wal-Mart doc. They are not our competition. Sure, you can make the point that corporate optometry is destroying the public perception of this profession, but so are many private practice doctors. I can't tell you how many doctors I have met that practice in a strip mall (to quote Seinfeld "Not that there is anyting wrong with that"). Is having the nail salon and video game store right next to your office any different than practicing in a mall? Or how about those private practice doctors that have one refracting lane in the back of their optical shop? Or those docs whose equipment is from the 60's or have not added the latest diagnostic equipment? There are plenty of private practice docs that are destroying the preception of our profession. And if you think that by getting rid of all of the corporate locations patients will be knocking down your door to get an exam, you are delusional. Either they will not get eye exams, or they will find that private practice doc advertising free eye exams with purchase of a pair of glasses in their local strip mall.

The real reason students are going corporate is because of lack of opportunity in private practice. I don't see the critics of corporate optometry hiring new doctors every year. Where do you want them to practice? They can't all open up cold, and they have to service their student loan debt. So until you find a way to place every new grad into a private practice, I would suggest you spend less time railing against corporate optometry and more time building your practice so you don't have to worry about the new Wal-Mart opening up down the street from your office.

 

[ODhopeful]

Because slushys are so tasty 😉. But seriously, if you do not understand why anyone would work commercial, you do not have a clue about the state of our profession. Aren't you getting a little tired of corporate OD bashing? Maybe you are compensating for something else. I have had the opportunity to meet a lot of OD's throughout the country, and one observation that I have made is that typically the most vocal docs with regards to the evils of corporate optometry are the least successful. Maybe that's not the case on this forum, but I can tell you the guys doing 1,2, and even 3 million a year, could care less about the local Wal-Mart doc. They are not our competition. Sure, you can make the point that corporate optometry is destroying the public perception of this profession, but so are many private practice doctors. I can't tell you how many doctors I have met that practice in a strip mall (to quote Seinfeld "Not that there is anyting wrong with that"). Is having the nail salon and video game store right next to your office any different than practicing in a mall? Or how about those private practice doctors that have one refracting lane in the back of their optical shop? Or those docs whose equipment is from the 60's or have not added the latest diagnostic equipment? There are plenty of private practice docs that are destroying the preception of our profession. And if you think that by getting rid of all of the corporate locations patients will be knocking down your door to get an exam, you are delusional. Either they will not get eye exams, or they will find that private practice doc advertising free eye exams with purchase of a pair of glasses in their local strip mall.

The real reason students are going corporate is because of lack of opportunity in private practice. I don't see the critics of corporate optometry hiring new doctors every year. Where do you want them to practice? They can't all open up cold, and they have to service their student loan debt. So until you find a way to place every new grad into a private practice, I would suggest you spend less time railing against corporate optometry and more time building your practice so you don't have to worry about the new Wal-Mart opening up down the street from your office.

I agree. If private optometry was offering what commercial entities are offering ODs, then I think commercial would not even be a problem. I hate going to the mall and seeing ODs in these small-ass places or going to Walmart/Target or whatever and see ODs working there. I feel kinda shameful to tell ppl I'm with at the time that these ppl received the same "doctorate" education that I'm getting now. I feel even more sad that I might end up there too in a few years because the private opportunities just aren't there. We should try to tell those commercial docs to start a real private practice, but if that really happens, then can u imagine driving down the road n stop at a light, u look around and there is literally one OD clinic in every corner at every intersection. That's kinda a scary thought too...

 

[eyebwoi]

I agree completely with Ben. It takes a lot of motivation for someone to spend +$150 000 just to go through optometry school as it is. It's unfair to ask the same person to have even more motivation to take a low paying job right after school just to preserve the reputation of the profession (because others feel corporate is completely evil). High income pays the bills, clears the debt, and probably helps the optometrist move towards private practice in the long run. It doesn't make financial sense to stay in debt, especially with the higher interest rates (not everyone will be on federal loans). If debt was low (relatively, compared to what we face nowadays), maybe $80 000, then yes, probably no excuse to go corporate. If you really want someone to rant on, then take the fight to the OD schools for pumping out so many graduates...they're hurting the profession more than anyone else.
It's unfair to put the blame on a new OD for going where they can have a better income. It's how the world works, everyone goes where the money is.

 

[SearchSquad]

Can someone please explain this whole corporate thing. I mean, I've got the gist but I don't understand completely.

Why are commercial/corp. jobs so bad?

What is the salary differential between wal-mart starting pay and a private? And why would a private company pay less initially?

Thanks

 

[prettygreeneyes]

Because slushys are so tasty 😉. But seriously, if you do not understand why anyone would work commercial, you do not have a clue about the state of our profession. Aren't you getting a little tired of corporate OD bashing? Maybe you are compensating for something else. I have had the opportunity to meet a lot of OD's throughout the country, and one observation that I have made is that typically the most vocal docs with regards to the evils of corporate optometry are the least successful. Maybe that's not the case on this forum, but I can tell you the guys doing 1,2, and even 3 million a year, could care less about the local Wal-Mart doc. They are not our competition. Sure, you can make the point that corporate optometry is destroying the public perception of this profession, but so are many private practice doctors. I can't tell you how many doctors I have met that practice in a strip mall (to quote Seinfeld "Not that there is anyting wrong with that"). Is having the nail salon and video game store right next to your office any different than practicing in a mall? Or how about those private practice doctors that have one refracting lane in the back of their optical shop? Or those docs whose equipment is from the 60's or have not added the latest diagnostic equipment? There are plenty of private practice docs that are destroying the preception of our profession. And if you think that by getting rid of all of the corporate locations patients will be knocking down your door to get an exam, you are delusional. Either they will not get eye exams, or they will find that private practice doc advertising free eye exams with purchase of a pair of glasses in their local strip mall.

The real reason students are going corporate is because of lack of opportunity in private practice. I don't see the critics of corporate optometry hiring new doctors every year. Where do you want them to practice? They can't all open up cold, and they have to service their student loan debt. So until you find a way to place every new grad into a private practice, I would suggest you spend less time railing against corporate optometry and more time building your practice so you don't have to worry about the new Wal-Mart opening up down the street from your office.

Spectacular post Dr. Chudner. 👍

 

[ODhopeful]

Can someone please explain this whole corporate thing. I mean, I've got the gist but I don't understand completely.

Why are commercial/corp. jobs so bad?

What is the salary differential between wal-mart starting pay and a private? And why would a private company pay less initially?

Thanks

I don't really know either, I just know I've been brainwashed by these forums and school that corporate is evil and should be damned to hell for all eternity, but I love walmart when I'm not talking optometry coz it's so damn CHEAP!!!!!
This is exactly what I'm talking about...
http://allabout-sp.net/?p=season8/809

 

[Dr Gump]

I just found this forum and I thought I would add my thoughts to this issue. Corporate vs Private....lets get ready to rumble.

I have a private practice and enjoy it enormously. My "boss" lets me look at the internet all day (in between patients), listen to my favorite types of music while I work and even pays me a decent salary.

It really doesn't matter where you practice, it matters how you practice. An eye exam is the same no matter where you do it...Wallyworld, your own office, your grandmother's basement. Its all the same. Don't compromise how you do an exam just because you are in a different environment. Rise above it and do the right thing for your patient. I realize all dreadful vision plans do not pay for medical care, but that is why you refer to our friends the Ophthalmologists or even other Optometrists, such as myself, who deal with lots of pathology.

I have a good friend who works at a Wallyworld location. He has a medical practice. He does not compromise his patient's care and accepts every type of medical insurance that allows him on their panel.

To get back to the subject of paying off student loans. Don't sweat it. Find a good interest rate and pay it off slowly. There are other things to do with your salary, such as investing in your practice. You'll have debt until you retire (hopefully not after), so it is just another monthly bill.

The biggest difference between corporate and private practices is the accumulation of assets. Everyone will retire one day and a private practice affords individuals access to a greater collection of assets.....real estate, goodwill, equipment, stock and bonds bought with excess salary, etc.

How would one start a private practice with so much competition??? This is a common question that has many answers. My answer is to find a "niche" area that is underrepresented. I found a town of 45,000 people, 3 and a half Optometrists (No, the half is not a midget, just part-time) and one visiting Ophthalmology group. The Optometrists are "old school" so my progressive practice is flourishing. Do I live on a beach or have access to multiple malls or restaraunts?? No, but there is a nice lake and I like to travel anyway. My weeks are spent at the practice and my weekends are either on my "ranch" or elsewhere. I enjoy it tremendoulsy.

So to sum up my post - Optometry is a great field, don't compromise your exams and don't sweat the student loans.

 

[HAB1206]

I agree completely with Ben. It takes a lot of motivation for someone to spend +$150 000 just to go through optometry school as it is. It's unfair to ask the same person to have even more motivation to take a low paying job right after school just to preserve the reputation of the profession (because others feel corporate is completely evil). High income pays the bills, clears the debt, and probably helps the optometrist move towards private practice in the long run. It doesn't make financial sense to stay in debt, especially with the higher interest rates (not everyone will be on federal loans). If debt was low (relatively, compared to what we face nowadays), maybe $80 000, then yes, probably no excuse to go corporate. If you really want someone to rant on, then take the fight to the OD schools for pumping out so many graduates...they're hurting the profession more than anyone else.
It's unfair to put the blame on a new OD for going where they can have a better income. It's how the world works, everyone goes where the money is.

I TOTALLY AGREE! Throughout undergrad, I have had the pleasure of working at a Sam's Club Optical. I have also worked for Pearle Vision for a few yrs in high school. I have to be honest, seeing the ODs at Sams Club/Wal-mart doesn't look like the most professional scene. But at the same time after talking to the doctors that worked there, it doesnt seem like a bad idea. Leasing is dirt cheap, equipment is given to you for use while you're there, if something breaks it is fixed immediately courtesy of Sam's, you get many patients through the marketing teams (and lets face it, EVERYONE shops at Walmart), AND I know their income is very appealing to new grads. VERSUS at Pearle, the doctor was ALWAYS slow, sometimes certain tests had to be performed at a later time since equipment was broken, AND it seemed that they were always trying to hustle the patients into buying this and that to make income. Yes, I also dream of one day opening a successful practice, but the way I look at it, why get in more debt when you're already sitting on it? I personally plan on looking into working at a corporate location when I graduate.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

Yes, I also dream of one day opening a successful practice, but the way I look at it, why get in more debt when you're already sitting on it? I personally plan on looking into working at a corporate location when I graduate.

Good post, but I have the opposite attitude regarding opening a practice out of school. I think the best time to open a practice and go into more debt is when I've been living like a student for the last 10 years, and am used to having no or very little money. Then, I'll still be driving the junker car that I am now - no car payment (if it holds up ), have a small housing payment, and have relatively few expenses. To go from making $100k a year with a nice car payment, doctor house payment, etc. to making negative income when you open the practice doesn't sound appealing to me. I personally question if I would be strong enough to do it. So, I'll be working towards opening my own practice from the get go with my husband (also an OD student). This all depends on my ability to get financed and find a suitable place to buy (two gigantic feats) of course. Now, if I have to work corporate while my office is getting up and running... you bet I will.

 

[eyestrain]

Yes, I also dream of one day opening a successful practice, but the way I look at it, why get in more debt when you're already sitting on it? I personally plan on looking into working at a corporate location when I graduate.

If you plan on waiting to get out of debt to open a practice, you'll be working commercial forever.

 

[KHE]

Yes, I also dream of one day opening a successful practice, but the way I look at it, why get in more debt when you're already sitting on it? I personally plan on looking into working at a corporate location when I graduate.

This is not a good way to look at it. You are always going to have debt. As someone else said, if you wait until you are debt free to open a practice, you'll never do it because one of two things will happen...

1) You'll never be debt free
2) In the rare case that you become debt free, you will almost certainly be adverse to the idea of going back into a huge debt.

I'm not sure why you've resigned yourself to working corporate. I'm not a corporate basher, but if you would rather do private practice, start exploring that option. Don't just resign yourself to a bunch of years at Sam's Club.

I bought a practice a couple of months ago now and between the practice, my mortgage, and my wife and my student loans I owe more than a million dollars. That's right....a MILLION dollars. Debt can be a bit overwhelming when you look at that bottom line and see all that red ink but it is what it is.....and you will get out of it.

 

[KHE]

So, I'll be working towards opening my own practice from the get go with my husband (also an OD student). This all depends on my ability to get financed and find a suitable place to buy (two gigantic feats) of course. Now, if I have to work corporate while my office is getting up and running... you bet I will.

This is not a good choice....

A cold start is not a bad option for one doctor, but if your goal is for you and your husband to be working together in a practice that you both own than you are far better off finding one to purchase and having one of you work it while the other person works somewhere else to generate income. As demand increases over time, the other spouse can slowly start adding time to the office a day a week at a time.

It's hard enough turning a one doctor office into a two doctor office. I can't even fathom trying to turn a cold start into a two doctor office.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

This is not a good choice....

A cold start is not a bad option for one doctor, but if your goal is for you and your husband to be working together in a practice that you both own than you are far better off finding one to purchase and having one of you work it while the other person works somewhere else to generate income. As demand increases over time, the other spouse can slowly start adding time to the office a day a week at a time.

It's hard enough turning a one doctor office into a two doctor office. I can't even fathom trying to turn a cold start into a two doctor office.

I completely agree KHE. I wasn't clear in my first post that my intent is to get an office opened up as soon as we are able to (not necessarily cold start either... we'll see) and work towards building a practice that can support two doctors, which will of course take several years. The joint practice is the goal we have set for ourselves and what we will be working towards throughout our careers. A "mom and pop" shop if you will...

 

[Dr Gump]

This is not a good way to look at it. You are always going to have debt. As someone else said, if you wait until you are debt free to open a practice, you'll never do it because one of two things will happen...

1) You'll never be debt free
2) In the rare case that you become debt free, you will almost certainly be adverse to the idea of going back into a huge debt.

I'm not sure why you've resigned yourself to working corporate. I'm not a corporate basher, but if you would rather do private practice, start exploring that option. Don't just resign yourself to a bunch of years at Sam's Club.

I bought a practice a couple of months ago now and between the practice, my mortgage, and my wife and my student loans I owe more than a million dollars. That's right....a MILLION dollars. Debt can be a bit overwhelming when you look at that bottom line and see all that red ink but it is what it is.....and you will get out of it.

Ahhh, the american dream. The old saying goes "You have to spend money to make money." The advantage of all this debt is the accrual of assets. Why sit in a corporate situation and pay for their company? Pay for your own, probably making the same or more, and experience an early retirement.
One million is not that much when you look at it over a period of time. Over a twenty year period that is only $50,000 a year. In private practice, after 20 years, most Optometrists make $150,000 to $200,000 a year. Not too shabby.
Look to the future. Eating a few bologna sandwiches and forgoing the expensive sports car for 10 years will make you a happy camper.

 

[JAZZEYE]

Ahhh, the american dream. The old saying goes "You have to spend money to make money." The advantage of all this debt is the accrual of assets. Why sit in a corporate situation and pay for their company? Pay for your own, probably making the same or more, and experience an early retirement.
One million is not that much when you look at it over a period of time. Over a twenty year period that is only $50,000 a year. In private practice, after 20 years, most Optometrists make $150,000 to $200,000 a year. Not too shabby.
Look to the future. Eating a few bologna sandwiches and forgoing the expensive sports car for 10 years will make you a happy camper.

Most OD's make 150-200K a year........really !

 

[KHE]

Most OD's make 150-200K a year........really !

No..."most ODs who are in private practice for 20 years" make at least that.

Not "most ODs."

 

[fjpod]

I am a little late to the fray here, and I have not read everysingle post in this thread, but here is some advice from someone who has lived through it.

It is generally not a good idea to borrow money for living expenses, or to support a lifestyle that you are used to, while in optometry school. (Heck, it's a bad choice no matter what stage of life you are in). You were going to live somewhere, somehow anyway. Do it if you absolutely have to, but there are consequences. I do believe in the long run, if you are entrepreneurial enough, and work hard enough, you will overcome the debt. If you sit and wait for someone to offer you a paycheck your entire work career, you will spend most of your career paying off that kind of debt.

It is a bit harder to get rich in optometry than it is in medicine because we are an underdog profession (for whatever reasons you can conjure up), but it is not impossible. When people throw around numbers like ODs make an average of $100k per year, that is usually in a startup salaried position with no hope of ownership over time. In sweat equity buy-in situations, your salary might even be lower, but if it is the right position, in the right place, etc., your potential can be two to four times that $100k.

If I had debt at 3% I would make only the minimum payment. At 7%, I would take a cut in my lifestyle to pay it off a bit faster. These are just good investment principles, has nothing to do with optometry.

When I got out of optometry school in 1978, I owed $25,000. My first job out of optometry school paid me $15,700 per year. I chose to go with a lower paying job in a private practice because it had buy-in potential, was in the area in which I wanted to live, etc. Many of my friends scoffed at me because they took commercial positions at $30-35,000. I stayed with that practice, through thick and thin. I am now the most senior partner in a 6 OD practice, with 5 licensed opticians and additional staff of about 24 people. Today my counterparts who stayed commercial make $100-150, and I make *** times that. (and I pay the taxes to prove it, but that's another story.)

If you use the concept that things ( i.e. costs) double every ten years due to inflation, the amount of debt that I graduated with is almost equivalent to $200,000. today. I know this may sound strange, but time has a way of eroding debt as long as the interest rate isn't too high.

So, I guess what I am saying here is don't borrow money to live. Borrow money to learn. Secondly, even with what seems like insurmountable debt, don't go for the "best paying" job right after graduation, go for the job that has the "best potential" to suit your lifestyle in the future.

 

[alleigh79]

👍 Thanks for the post and your thought! (Sounds very simimilar to the doc I currently work for - demographics and all... kinda scary!)

I just found this forum and I thought I would add my thoughts to this issue. Corporate vs Private....lets get ready to rumble.

I have a private practice and enjoy it enormously. My "boss" lets me look at the internet all day (in between patients), listen to my favorite types of music while I work and even pays me a decent salary.

It really doesn't matter where you practice, it matters how you practice. An eye exam is the same no matter where you do it...Wallyworld, your own office, your grandmother's basement. Its all the same. Don't compromise how you do an exam just because you are in a different environment. Rise above it and do the right thing for your patient. I realize all dreadful vision plans do not pay for medical care, but that is why you refer to our friends the Ophthalmologists or even other Optometrists, such as myself, who deal with lots of pathology.

I have a good friend who works at a Wallyworld location. He has a medical practice. He does not compromise his patient's care and accepts every type of medical insurance that allows him on their panel.

To get back to the subject of paying off student loans. Don't sweat it. Find a good interest rate and pay it off slowly. There are other things to do with your salary, such as investing in your practice. You'll have debt until you retire (hopefully not after), so it is just another monthly bill.

The biggest difference between corporate and private practices is the accumulation of assets. Everyone will retire one day and a private practice affords individuals access to a greater collection of assets.....real estate, goodwill, equipment, stock and bonds bought with excess salary, etc.

How would one start a private practice with so much competition??? This is a common question that has many answers. My answer is to find a "niche" area that is underrepresented. I found a town of 45,000 people, 3 and a half Optometrists (No, the half is not a midget, just part-time) and one visiting Ophthalmology group. The Optometrists are "old school" so my progressive practice is flourishing. Do I live on a beach or have access to multiple malls or restaraunts?? No, but there is a nice lake and I like to travel anyway. My weeks are spent at the practice and my weekends are either on my "ranch" or elsewhere. I enjoy it tremendoulsy.

So to sum up my post - Optometry is a great field, don't compromise your exams and don't sweat the student loans.

 

[yyz]

.

 

[yyz]

Ok I figured it out for all you new grads out there with 200K in student loans



Ready......................................










Ready...........................................












Marry rich...........................









Wait I thought of another...........








Win the lottery.......................................









Oh wait, even better, move in with mommy and daddy and tell yourself how good you feel about helping others.













The reality: Live in the slums to afford housing. Drive an old used car with 100K mile on it. Work like a factory worker in some optical chain spinning dials until your head spins. Oh, yeah but your helping people. Oh yeah I'm going to open up my own practice with my 200K student loans and 300K mortgage for a starter home. Keep dreaming and keep spinning those dials. Faster Faster!

 

[KHE]

The reality: Live in the slums to afford housing. Drive an old used car with 100K mile on it. Work like a factory worker in some optical chain spinning dials until your head spins. Oh, yeah but your helping people. Oh yeah I'm going to open up my own practice with my 200K student loans and 300K mortgage for a starter home. Keep dreaming and keep spinning those dials. Faster Faster!

You need to be spreading your loan payments out over 30 years for your student loans. $200k at 6.9% over 30 years is $1300 per month. You can make that in 3 or 4 days as an OD.

Go with one of the companies that specialize in medical practice financing. If you go through the bank with your situation, you're right. You're probably out to lunch because most banks are asset based lenders. You need someone who will lend based on cashflow. Another good option is finding a seller who is willing to finance.