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Do program directors know where else we are interviewing?
PD Question regarding interviews
- Thread starter kkc620
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They ask, though.
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From the NRMP FAQ:
During my interview, the program director asked me about other programs to which I had applied and how I plan to rank them. Am I obligated to provide that information?
No. Section 6.0 of the Match Participation Agreement prohibits programs from requiring applicants to reveal the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. Any program that requires an applicant to disclose such information is in violation of NRMP policy and will be investigated by the NRMP.
Of course, it says *requires* which is hard to prove. But they do ask, but we don't have access to a list of any sort. If I see you in the hallways taking a tour with the Plastic Surgery staff, I'll know you're applying to that program as well.
During my interview, the program director asked me about other programs to which I had applied and how I plan to rank them. Am I obligated to provide that information?
No. Section 6.0 of the Match Participation Agreement prohibits programs from requiring applicants to reveal the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. Any program that requires an applicant to disclose such information is in violation of NRMP policy and will be investigated by the NRMP.
Of course, it says *requires* which is hard to prove. But they do ask, but we don't have access to a list of any sort. If I see you in the hallways taking a tour with the Plastic Surgery staff, I'll know you're applying to that program as well.
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You: "I'm applying in Region XYZ."
Interviewer: "Which programs?"
You: "List of programs in random cities that you perceive to be similar of a similar rank to the place where you're interviewing." (I should point out that I approve of lying at this point since this is beyond where this conversation should reasonably go. YMMV of course.)
Interviewer: "Program A is where I did my fellowship, I thought PD L was awesome and they had a great XYZ. I heard Program D kind of blows but what a great city. What did ....?"
You: "..." (OK...seriously, at this point you need to be a grownup and figure out how to manage the conversation but I got you 90% of the way there. You're welcome.)
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gutonc's response is right on, although I have to wonder, "why do you care if they ask?"
Make something up or tell the truth. As he notes, pick programs of similar competitiveness or a slight step up to make the lie seem realistic.
Maybe they're making conversation.
Maybe they're trying to see how competitive you are.
Maybe they're trying to see how competitive they are.
I would think ya'll would have too much to worry about than focus on this. Like questions about whether you're married or have children.
Make something up or tell the truth. As he notes, pick programs of similar competitiveness or a slight step up to make the lie seem realistic.
Maybe they're making conversation.
Maybe they're trying to see how competitive you are.
Maybe they're trying to see how competitive they are.
I would think ya'll would have too much to worry about than focus on this. Like questions about whether you're married or have children.
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Marriage/children questions are worse because this may be a basis for discrimination. Eg A residency might decide that a woman with kids at home is more likely to max out the "personal days" as compared to a single male.
In general, programs that ask about where else you are applying just want to hear you are competitive. They want to know that their program is up there with the others. It also allows them to gauge how hard a sell they have to make, and to target their pitch. It's like when you are shopping for cars, the dealer will ask about what other cars you have tested, and tailor his pitch to why his product I better than brand X. Finally, nobody wants someone nobody else wants. You are more desirable when it's known others desire you.
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If asked where else are you applying just answer vaguely. "throughout the Southeast" or "mainly East Coast but with a little Midwestern" or "concentrating on the West Coast" are acceptable evasions of this question. That said, I do have one attending who will ask simply because he's worked at several schools around the country and will put in a good word for you if he's impressed by your interview.
When interviewers ask about other programs to which you may be applying, in my experience at 3 different institutions this is usually asked out of a genuine desire to provide some free career advice or observations about the training at other institutions (e.g., see gutonc's posting) or frank curiosity -- or, at worst, out of a desire to see whether you are getting interviews at comparably ranked programs.
My advice to students is to answer directly and honestly.
Whether or not you believe the free career advice or observations about training at other institutions are warranted, in any case I do not recommend that students adopt EMmotherhen's dodge unless an interviewer asks you specifically "to which regions of the country are you focusing your interviewing?" If I ask you a specific question and you answer with a dodge, are you thinking that I'm just going to forget that I asked you a different question? I, and other attendings I have spoken to about this, just find it irritating, and it makes me wonder why you are dodging the question.
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Not to hijack the OP's thread, but how exactly do we deal with issues we know are in direct violation of federal laws/NRMP. Like asking place of birth, etc. I know for a fact that its illegal to discriminate against an individual because of birthplace, ancestry, culture.. but what exactly do we say when we're asked this?
I've had a program actually send me a "prospective resident info" questionnaire that asks things like:
1. Married: Yes or NO
2. If children, their ages
3. Place of Birth, Place Raised
4. Mothers/Fathers occupation
I found this pretty appalling, especially considering how none of these things have any contribution on my competency to practice medicine.
I've had a program actually send me a "prospective resident info" questionnaire that asks things like:
1. Married: Yes or NO
2. If children, their ages
3. Place of Birth, Place Raised
4. Mothers/Fathers occupation
I found this pretty appalling, especially considering how none of these things have any contribution on my competency to practice medicine.
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Not sure what you're getting at, but place of birth (and citizenship/visa status) is totally OK to talk about. It's on your ERAS application for goodness sake. (It's on mine at least, and I'm a US citizen graduating from an LCME accredited medical school. Was born abroad, but meh at relevancy). Now, can they extrapolate from that to your ethnic background? Yes. But they can also extrapolate from your name, and it's not forbidden for them to ask for that.
They can't ask if you have children or are married (which is weird why that would be on a questionnaire), but if say, during the interview, you bring it up yourself, they can discuss them further quite legitimately (what does your husband do? how old are your kids?). Some interviewers will use this as a way to sell the program. (Oh, your husband is a profession X? Our city has lots of opportunities etc).
Regarding asking what your parents do, I don't think that's a protected class of information either. Not particularly relevant in most cases, but not something that's forbidden.
In general, I would tell the truth. If they did bring up an actual forbidden thing (marital status, religion, age, sexual orientation, whatever), I'd try to gauge why they were asking. If you're uncomfortable talking about it, you can just say you keep that information private. But never lie. (I suppose age is actually on ERAS too, since your date of birth is on there. But that's an iffy one for them to discuss. More iffy than birthplace at least).
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Well I would think that just because its on ERAS, wouldn't make it alright. Even if it was on ERAS, then why ask again on the questionnaire, since they do have the complete application.
Not sure what to take out of this, in terms of the latter questions (relationship status etc. I do not have an issue with it since I am single with no kids). Anyone else want to weigh in? or am I just being hypersensitive to this issue? 😕
