Pediatric Oncology Question

[CoryChevalier]

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Hey guys quick question.

Does anyone know how competitive it is to get a pediatric oncology fellowship after you are done with the pediatrics residency?

I have been trying to find this information but have not had much luck and haven't had the chance to meet with any of the oncology faculty yet at my institution.

Thanks! 🙂

Cory

 

[CoryChevalier]

bump?

 

[BigRedBeta]

In general, with the exception of neonatology (and cards to a lesser extent) the pediatric fellowships are not that competitive, at least in comparison to their adult counterparts. Most have more spots than applicants who are US Grads.

Here are the stats for Peds H/O programs that participated in the match last year (there are a handful of programs that don't currently participate in the match).

http://www.nrmp.org/fellow/match_name/ped_hem_oc/stats.html

 

[CoryChevalier]

Hey thanks a lot for the reply! Very helpful 🙂

 

[Stitch]

In general, with the exception of neonatology (and cards to a lesser extent) the pediatric fellowships are not that competitive, at least in comparison to their adult counterparts. Most have more spots than applicants who are US Grads.

Here are the stats for Peds H/O programs that participated in the match last year (there are a handful of programs that don't currently participate in the match).

http://www.nrmp.org/fellow/match_name/ped_hem_oc/stats.html

Generally this is true and if you make the right connections in residency you shouldn't have a problem. That said H/O is one of the more competitive fellowships to get. Two of my classmates matched in h/o fellowships, one at Emory and one at Dallas. The fellowship tends to try to push you into doing tons of research and they had to play the 'I only want to do research' game for a while.

But nonetheless, as an American grad if you have a decent residency program, your attendings will know other people and be able to help you out.

 

[CoryChevalier]

Any tips on what to do to become the most competitive? I really want to do H/O and if pediatric hem/onc wasn't something that I could get I would most likely go for adult hem/onc.

Oh and Stitch, you a big Disney fan?

Thanks.

 

[swcjack]

A PhD.
But if you don't really feel like going to graduate school for 4-6 yrs in addition to medical school, you should definitely get involved with research as much as possible. I have watched some H/O fellows struggling in fellowship because they had never really done any significant research. It is a different world....research, some people really hate it and some love it. If you hate it then I can imagine fellowship will be painful and may not be worth it. The other two things you need are pretty obvious 1. do well in a top-notch residency 2. Make connections with faculty that know other people.

 

[Spooner13]

A PhD.
But if you don't really feel like going to graduate school for 4-6 yrs in addition to medical school, you should definitely get involved with research as much as possible. I have watched some H/O fellows struggling in fellowship because they had never really done any significant research. It is a different world....research, some people really hate it and some love it. If you hate it then I can imagine fellowship will be painful and may not be worth it. The other two things you need are pretty obvious 1. do well in a top-notch residency 2. Make connections with faculty that know other people.

I am also interested in going into peds hem/onc and have heard others also say that I need to do research in med school and residency. Does anyone know if this needs to be any specific type of research? Does the research need to be basic science/cancer research? Or should I do clinical research? Or does it not matter what type of research I do as long as I get some research experience?

Also, I'm going to attend a DO school. Do I need to do an ACGME residency?

 

[Stitch]

I am also interested in going into peds hem/onc and have heard others also say that I need to do research in med school and residency. Does anyone know if this needs to be any specific type of research? Does the research need to be basic science/cancer research? Or should I do clinical research? Or does it not matter what type of research I do as long as I get some research experience?

Also, I'm going to attend a DO school. Do I need to do an ACGME residency?

I don't know about the DO residency, but I'd imagine an ACGME residency would be helpful. Others may know more. I haven't seen a lot of DO subspecialists, but I've worked with many DO pediatricians who have been great, so you should be able to make the connections you need to get where you want. Remember that the best subspecialists have a good grounding in general peds.

As for the type of research it doesn't matter so much. The important part is that you're involved in the research process. The set up, dealing with IRBs, data collection and number crunching. Those things are similar in any field even if the topics are different. Exposure and experience with those things will allow you to know whether you can deal with it in fellowship and also allow you to hit the ground running during fellowship.

That said, don't focus on getting published at all costs. Just get involved. Residency and fellowship are nothing like medical school and the mindset is different.

 

[J-Rad]

I am also interested in going into peds hem/onc and have heard others also say that I need to do research in med school and residency. Does anyone know if this needs to be any specific type of research? Does the research need to be basic science/cancer research? Or should I do clinical research? Or does it not matter what type of research I do as long as I get some research experience?

Also, I'm going to attend a DO school. Do I need to do an ACGME residency?

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f0303c4b29dd78ef924e63275e713d6d1fe2
All, but two, AOA pediatrics residencies are dual AOA/ACGME accredited. Given the paltry number of DO pediatrics residencies, location and individual program qualities will likely play a greater part in your choice of residency than whether is is AOA, AOA/ACGME, or ACGME. I agree with Stitch's response. Tangentially, while the #s are fewer, you can find DO subs in some high profile places (check out the cardiology depts of Wisconsin Children's or Children's Hospital of Atlanta, Peds CCM trainess at Pittsburgh, anesthesia/CCM docs at CHOP for a sample). You'll do fine as long as you prove yourself in med school and residency.

 

[Spooner13]

Thanks for the great info Stitch and J-Rad. I really appreciate it.

 

[Amoeba]

Generally this is true and if you make the right connections in residency you shouldn't have a problem. That said H/O is one of the more competitive fellowships to get. Two of my classmates matched in h/o fellowships, one at Emory and one at Dallas. The fellowship tends to try to push you into doing tons of research and they had to play the 'I only want to do research' game for a while.

But nonetheless, as an American grad if you have a decent residency program, your attendings will know other people and be able to help you out.

A PhD.
But if you don't really feel like going to graduate school for 4-6 yrs in addition to medical school, you should definitely get involved with research as much as possible. I have watched some H/O fellows struggling in fellowship because they had never really done any significant research. It is a different world....research, some people really hate it and some love it. If you hate it then I can imagine fellowship will be painful and may not be worth it. The other two things you need are pretty obvious 1. do well in a top-notch residency 2. Make connections with faculty that know other people.

Wondering about this...any other thoughts about whether it's possible or worthwhile to go into heme-onc if you aren't totally gung-ho all research all the time?

Clearly, any fellowship involves committing to a significant research component, and heme-onc's a basic science heavy field, so you have to be at least comfortable with that to do it. But are there heme-onc programs out there that have good clinical training, but you don't have to play any "I only want to do research game" to get in or to succeed in? (Any examples if ya got 'em...) I don't particularly care about big names, but would like a program that'll train me well. Possible, or not so much?

 

[23 from me]

Wondering about this...any other thoughts about whether it's possible or worthwhile to go into heme-onc if you aren't totally gung-ho all research all the time?

Clearly, any fellowship involves committing to a significant research component, and heme-onc's a basic science heavy field, so you have to be at least comfortable with that to do it. But are there heme-onc programs out there that have good clinical training, but you don't have to play any "I only want to do research game" to get in or to succeed in? (Any examples if ya got 'em...) I don't particularly care about big names, but would like a program that'll train me well. Possible, or not so much?

Very possible.

Most PHO faculty are not doing research. Check out the American Society of Hematology and American Society of Pediatric Hematology Oncology web pages for current job ads. Most programs are looking for clinicians.

The research game is a pyramid. You must have grants funded (by NIH) to continue. Less than 10% of grant applications are currently funded. The math says that most faculty will not be doing research no matter what you are told in fellowship.

There are many solid fellowship programs with excellent clinical training. Significant research experience means >1 full time year, and almost no MD applicants have this after med school/residency. Even the ABP has relaxed the requirement for a first authored peer reviewed publication for boards - there are now requirements for master clinicians and educators.

Try research as a fellow in a field of interest with a GOOD MENTOR. Be patient. Successful research often takes years of persistent work and a lot of luck even with the support of an excellent PI. In your 3rd or 4th year of fellowship you can decide if you want to be a clinician or research. Remember, success in a fellowship means completing your training so that you can treat kids with devastating diseases.