Peds Fellowship? Whaaaat?

[suckstobeme]

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So, I'm thinking about doing a Peds Fellowship. I've heard a lot of downside: you end up making less $$$, you miss out on a couple yrs of attending salary, you don't need a fellowship to work with kids in the ER, worse malpractice, etc etc.... but what can I say? Suckstobeme loves the little guys (but not in a creepy, DatelineNBC kinda way).

What do I need to know? In particular:
1) When do I need to get started with all this stuff? (Currently a PGY3 in a 4 yr program)
2) Are there any career upsides? Like maybe easier to find academic jobs, or jobs in places where it's ordinarily tough to find jobs?
3) What do fellowship directors look for in potential fellows? What can I do to make myself look like a better applicant than i actually am? 😉
4) Is there any advantage to a 2 yr vs a 3 yr program?
5) Are there any stellar programs out there? More importantly, are there programs I need to stay away from?
6) I heard peds fellowships are tough to land.... how hard?
7) Anything else you think is important

Responses from everyone are encouraged; responses from current or past fellows particularly valued. Responses from fellowship directors will be automatically entered in a sweepstakes for my sweet 1992 Toyota Corolla.

 

[WilcoWorld]

I doubt that I am much more informed than you are on this subject, but I have 2 things to say:

1) I have heard multiple department chairs (at community and academic institutions) say something to the effect of, "If you were boarded in Peds and EM I'd hire you today".

2) Since a lot (is it not yet all?) of these Peds EM fellowships are 3 years, another option would be to simply do a Peds residency after EM or an EM residency after Peds. You might get less research time out of it, but I suspect you'll be just as well trained.

Best of luck!

 

[BADMD]

What do I need to know? In particular:
1) When do I need to get started with all this stuff? (Currently a PGY3 in a 4 yr program)

Peds EM typically (although not exclusively) goes through ERAS. The deadlines are available on the NRMP website. It would be a good idea to start figuring out where you want go, so that you can apply. You may also consider contacting programs to see if there are extra-match positions. FRIEDA should have a searchable list.

2) Are there any career upsides? Like maybe easier to find academic jobs, or jobs in places where it's ordinarily tough to find jobs?

It depends. Anytime you being something to the table that someone else doesn't have, you have an advantage...on paper. Having subspecialty training will make you more marketable. However, you can't rely on that to get you jobs. It also limits you to some degree unless the hospital has a large pediatric population.

6) I heard peds fellowships are tough to land.... how hard?

My understanding is that it is easier if you are EM trained than if you are Peds trained. But being awesome is always the easiest way.

 

[docB]

The pay is less. That's because most peds visits bill at level 3 and adults bill more level 4 & 5. Peds EM is like being an airline pilot, lots of routine with occasional moments of pure terror (although you'll be less terrified than the rest of us).

Jobs are easy to get. My group is looking for a peds em doc right now.

I don't think that doing EM and then a peds residency would train you as well for doing peds EM as doing an actual peds em fellowship. How many non-EM peds docs are really comfortable running codes?

 

[suckstobeme]

come on guys? no more love for the peds fellowship question?

 

[diphenyl]

So, I'm thinking about doing a Peds Fellowship. I've heard a lot of downside: you end up making less $$$, you miss out on a couple yrs of attending salary, you don't need a fellowship to work with kids in the ER, worse malpractice, etc etc.... but what can I say? Suckstobeme loves the little guys (but not in a creepy, DatelineNBC kinda way).

What do I need to know? In particular:
1) When do I need to get started with all this stuff? (Currently a PGY3 in a 4 yr program)
2) Are there any career upsides? Like maybe easier to find academic jobs, or jobs in places where it's ordinarily tough to find jobs?
3) What do fellowship directors look for in potential fellows? What can I do to make myself look like a better applicant than i actually am? 😉
4) Is there any advantage to a 2 yr vs a 3 yr program?
5) Are there any stellar programs out there? More importantly, are there programs I need to stay away from?
6) I heard peds fellowships are tough to land.... how hard?
7) Anything else you think is important

Responses from everyone are encouraged; responses from current or past fellows particularly valued. Responses from fellowship directors will be automatically entered in a sweepstakes for my sweet 1992 Toyota Corolla.

1) 2 vs 3 years: The fellowships are 2 years for EM trained peeps. 3 years only for PEDS trained peeps.
2) Peds fellowships are competitive from the ped's camp, if ur EM trained it isn't nearly as difficult.
3) As to the EM vs. PEDS vs. EM/PEDs training: This has been discussed extensivly before hand in both the PEDS and combined residency forum. I looked into this when I considered a PEDS fellowship vs. going into community practice. Basically what I have gathered is if you go the peds route into EM, your options are limited to PEDS ED's vs. if your EM trained you can do peds or adult EM. Being certified in both doesn't qualify you to do PEDs EM in some director's eyes. They want fellowship trained applicants, stupid considering the EM trainees are fully qualified to treat kids.

 

[kalico]

I was in a similar place a few years back. Debating med/peds vs EM vs peds then EM fellowship vs EM then peds fellowship.

I did a bunch of away electives and on my tour I surveyed the pedi ED chairs. Here's what I found:

- A good amount of the pedi ED's that don't let straight up EM attendings work (the restrictive ones) will only let you work there if you have the peds fellowship (from either peds or EM).

- Most (community) hospitals don't have a separate pedi ED, or if they do, EM docs can work both.

- Most academic centers (in the northeast at least) have a separate pedi ED and tend to restrict to the fellowship-trained folks.


So what's my point?

Being Peds + EM double boarded would not have gotten me a job in most of the pedi ED's that wanted fellowship-trained attendings. To them, it did not equal the same thing. And I found that to be true at a good amount of the academic pedi ED's I rotated through.

That being said, I opted to do EM, and if I want to see kids, I'll work in a community-academic hybrid center.

Good luck.

-K

 

[roja]

Being double boarded in peds and EM is not the same thing as doing Peds EM fellowship.

You are at a slight advantage than someone who did Peds +peds EM only because you can negotiate at an adult salary.

You would have to work SOME in an adult ED to have this work.

Being EM + peds EM fellowship trained pretty much will net you a job anywhere. you can work both in an adult ED and work in any peds ED with that fellowship.