Pending MCAT and Secondaries

[xcrunner18]

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Hi everyone, I am applying MSTP this cycle, and have submitted my primary application to 1 school.

My UG GPA is good (3.85 at top 5 school) and my last MCAT went well minus a small hiccup on verbal (12, 9, 14). I signed up to retake on July 2nd. My pre-health advisor advised me to retake as MSTP programs are especially competitive and the 9 in verbal may hurt my chances.

In terms of secondaries, would schools delay sending me secondaries solely because of the pending MCAT?

I would appreciate any advice, thanks in advance.

 

[Alucard6]

I think a lot of schools send out secondaries without the screening. They do that just so they can rake in the money then send out rejections afterwards, unless you fall really below their stats.

You will have your scores by August which should be perfectly fine. You already have a 35 so that should get you some interviews if everything else checks out. So I would not worry about it, since if you are already on track to take the MCAT, just go with it but make sure you have it on your application that you plan to take another one.

 

[Marine to MD]

How is the rest of your app? Retaking a 35 is incredibly dangerous. ...

 

[xcrunner18]

Rest of the app should be good, solid EC's, hopefully good letters. No publications, but I have 3 years of solid research in a rising star's lab.

My practice tests were all much better on verbal, and idk I keep reading that a 9 can be a definite issue at more selective schools.

 

[aspirantmed]

Schools won't delay sending you secondaries. The only difference a pending MCAT will make is that some schools will wait to evaluate your application until they receive your updated MCAT score, and others will render a decision based on the information that they have at the time when your application is reviewed.

Be really careful upon retaking a 35, though. I'm not sure if a 9 in VR is necessarily enough to be ruled out in MSTP admissions, but a decrease in one or more sections of the MCAT will raise eyebrows and certainly hurt your chances.

 

[xcrunner18]

Schools won't delay sending you secondaries. The only difference a pending MCAT will make is that some schools will wait to evaluate your application until they receive your updated MCAT score, and others will render a decision based on the information that they have at the time when your application is reviewed.

Be really careful upon retaking a 35, though. I'm not sure if a 9 in VR is necessarily enough to be ruled out in MSTP admissions, but a decrease in one or more sections of the MCAT will raise eyebrows and certainly hurt your chances.

So, if I submit my secondaries before my second mcat score is out. You're saying that some schools may review my file, and reject based on the 9 (or other factors) without waiting for the pending MCAT?

In that case, is it worth delaying secondary submission until the MCAT score is out. Obviously taking the risk that the new score is better.

I realize the risk with retaking the 35, but I assume the 9 will be a definite roadblock at some of the top tier mstp programs. My verbal scores were better on pretty much all my practice exams, and I know I can do better without test day anxiety. That said, the 14 in bio may be hard to replicate. I'm just hoping that I can score close to a 35 with more even distribution of scores.

 

[lmn]

Read up on what some of our adcom members have said regarding retaking a test score as high as a 35, a few have said it shows poor judgment or the premed mindset of not recognizing a strong score and constantly chasing small little points.

 

[xcrunner18]

Read up on what some of our adcom members have said regarding retaking a test score as high as a 35, a few have said it shows poor judgment or the premed mindset of not recognizing a strong score and constantly chasing small little points.

Thank you for your advice, I will look for these threads.

But, I am having trouble weighing the negativity that my application will face with the 9 in verbal vs. the lack of judgment of retaking a high mcat.

I would love to go to a strong MSTP program, I just want to do everything in my power to put the best application I can put out there.

 

[xcrunner18]

Bump, any more clarity on this?

 

[zzxxzz]

Will the 9 hurt you? Perhaps.

But - and I mean this without any implied insult - you aren't scoring a 14 on BS again. Keep that in mind.

I thought about retaking my 35 (12/12/11) due to the fact that I scored 12-13 on BS on nearly all of my practice tests. But I decided against it because it's a huge risk. If you have a bad day, you just lost your 35. The risks outweigh the reward.

 

[el_duderino]

Read this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/retaking-low-30s.1075043/

Your score is already a 95+ percentile score. Retaking is not a good idea, and apparently a significant number of adcoms will think less of you as an applicant for doing so. Pay particular attention to the posts of Goro, an actual adcom.

 

[Microglia]

Read this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/retaking-low-30s.1075043/

Your score is already a 95+ percentile score. Retaking is not a good idea, and apparently a significant number of adcoms will think less of you as an applicant for doing so. Pay particular attention to the posts of Goro, an actual adcom.

When it comes to MSTP, it is a little different. Low 30s (30-33) is often worth retaking. However, a 35 is above my threshold for a retake. I think it's a good enough score to get you interviews and won't hurt you much. I wouldn't retake if I were you, unless you're averaging 40 currently on practice tests.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

How about this idea: submit your application as is and without any notification about future testing. Take the test. Then, if your MCAT score improves, send out updates to those schools. If it doesn't go up or it even goes down, they'll be referring to the first one anyway. I suppose what you need to think about what helps you overall. For instance, assuming your VR goes up but your BS goes down, would you prefer that?

 

[claduva94]

How about this idea: submit your application as is and without any notification about future testing. Take the test. Then, if your MCAT score improves, send out updates to those schools. If it doesn't go up or it even goes down, they'll be referring to the first one anyway. I suppose what you need to think about what helps you overall. For instance, assuming your VR goes up but your BS goes down, would you prefer that?

I'm pretty sure the score automatically gets sent so determining whether to send an update is not a luxury they have. And I certainly think that assuming they will only look at the first score is optimistic. Regardless, I am in a similar situation as OP (although I am applying MD only) and the benefits of retaking are minimal compared to the return on an increased score, especially considering that a better score is far from guaranteed.

 

[xcrunner18]

I thought about retaking my 35 (12/12/11) due to the fact that I scored 12-13 on BS on nearly all of my practice tests. But I decided against it because it's a huge risk. If you have a bad day, you just lost your 35. The risks outweigh the reward.

If I scored a more evenly distributed score, I would not be considering a retake. The only reason I am considering is due to the 9 which has been discussed as a definite negative in applications. I am cognizant of the fact that I will likely not score another 14, but I'd be happy with a more even score.

Pay particular attention to the posts of Goro, an actual adcom.

Thank you for the thread, I think it raises some definite things for me to think about. I do agree with some posters on that thread that an adcom looking down on retakers is kind of unfair. Fundamentally, with a 9, I won't be a top choice at top 10 mstp programs. And yet, me putting the time and effort to try and get there is viewed as arrogance.

And, I think for mstp it is a real concern to end up at the best school you can go to. Funding is limited, and there are real consequences to your career in academic medicine that are driven by the research you can do and the mentors available at institutions. It's no question that certain institutions publish far more often in top journals, and that publications in these journals are essential to getting funded and career advancement.

When it comes to MSTP, it is a little different. Low 30s (30-33) is often worth retaking. However, a 35 is above my threshold for a retake. I think it's a good enough score to get you interviews and won't hurt you much. I wouldn't retake if I were you, unless you're averaging 40 currently on practice tests.

Thanks for the advice, I think this decision is so tough because its a 35. A few points below and it would be a no-brainer retake for me. I have been averaging 38's, with consistently stable verbal scores. Verbal was a bit volatile the last time I studied for the test.

Regardless, I am in a similar situation as OP (although I am applying MD only) and the benefits of retaking are minimal compared to the return on an increased score, especially considering that a better score is far from guaranteed.

I think the luxury in applying MD is that there are far more spots, and the application process overall tends to be more holistic. With MSTP they have the luxury of having candidates with great numbers, and I think not having great numbers can immediately take one out of contention?

 

[Microglia]

If I scored a more evenly distributed score, I would not be considering a retake. The only reason I am considering is due to the 9 which has been discussed as a definite negative in applications. I am cognizant of the fact that I will likely not score another 14, but I'd be happy with a more even score.


Thank you for the thread, I think it raises some definite things for me to think about. I do agree with some posters on that thread that an adcom looking down on retakers is kind of unfair. Fundamentally, with a 9, I won't be a top choice at top 10 mstp programs. And yet, me putting the time and effort to try and get there is viewed as arrogance.

And, I think for mstp it is a real concern to end up at the best school you can go to. Funding is limited, and there are real consequences to your career in academic medicine that are driven by the research you can do and the mentors available at institutions. It's no question that certain institutions publish far more often in top journals, and that publications in these journals are essential to getting funded and career advancement.


Thanks for the advice, I think this decision is so tough because its a 35. A few points below and it would be a no-brainer retake for me. I have been averaging 38's, with consistently stable verbal scores. Verbal was a bit volatile the last time I studied for the test.


I think the luxury in applying MD is that there are far more spots, and the application process overall tends to be more holistic. With MSTP they have the luxury of having candidates with great numbers, and I think not having great numbers can immediately take one out of contention?

A 35 won't take you out of contention, but at top tiers it may mean they'd expect a better research portfolio than from someone with a 38. I think you'd have a solid shot at a mid tier MSTP and a decent chance at top tier if the rest of your app is in order and your research is good. Overall I'd say just apply, unless you have a couple weaknesses as well.

 

[gettheleadout]

Will the 9 hurt you? Perhaps.

But - and I mean this without any implied insult - you aren't scoring a 14 on BS again. Keep that in mind.

And you say this why? We don't know OP's performance record on BS. I never scored below 14 across all 8 AAMC FL's (majority 15's) and one real MCAT. How much do you want to bet if I had retaken I would have scored a 14 or 15?

Also I'd like to point out that while goro and gyngyn certainly represent the views of their respective schools, we don't know how common the negative attitude toward retaking 35+ scores is. Generalizing this attitude to all schools (or even just from MD to MSTP applicants) is dangerous.

Heck, Tildy even says in the thread Johnny linked that this attitude isn't held at his school!

 

[Ismet]

If you can pull off a 35 or higher on the retake, I don't see anything wrong with it. As GTLO said, not every school considers someone who retakes a good MCAT score as someone who takes unnecessary risks. That is certainly not the mentality at my school, but then again I'm not involved in the MSTP side of things so I don't know what they look for or don't like. Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with the odds of a retake, but if you are confident that you can improve the verbal and score a 35 or higher the 2nd time, go for it. A 35 is a great score, just not if you have your sights on top tier MSTP programs.

How about this idea: submit your application as is and without any notification about future testing. Take the test. Then, if your MCAT score improves, send out updates to those schools. If it doesn't go up or it even goes down, they'll be referring to the first one anyway. I suppose what you need to think about what helps you overall. For instance, assuming your VR goes up but your BS goes down, would you prefer that?

You don't get to decide if schools see your MCAT. The score automatically uploads to AMCAS and schools can see it.