Penn or Columbia?

[MCouper]

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I'm trying to decide between University of Pennsylvania and Columbia. Which do all of you think is better (or the pluses and minuses of each)? Also any idea which has a better residency match list? Thanks in advance.

 

[INeedAdvice]

Penn has the better name. Penn is higher ranked (not that it always matters). Penn is more known for medicine and has more of a tradition in it (it's the oldest med university in the u.s.).

Also, because of these times, I would rather be in Philly than NYC (just in case. :wink: )

•••quote:•••Originally posted by MCouper:
•I'm trying to decide between University of Pennsylvania and Columbia. Which do all of you think is better (or the pluses and minuses of each)? Also any idea which has a better residency match list? Thanks in advance.•••••

 

[KDMD]

I think that Dr. L and I would advise you to keep an open mind...don't just choose a school based on name. In addition, I would hardly say that Columbia is lacking in tradition..."in 1928 Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center was the world's first medical center to combine facilities for patient care, medical education, and research in a single complex"--straight from the Columbia handbook.

Look at the programs and go where you feel that you best fit...don't disregard Columbia just because of two ranks in U.S. News.

 

[ValleyGal]

First off, congrats on the great decision that you get to make. Your hard work has paid off!

As for the actual decision, that is a difficult one, as both are so tremendous. But know that you really can't go wrong with either.
First -- do you want to/can you handle living in New York. If you don't think that is the place that you absolutely want to be, I would not go to Columbia. But if you want it, then go. Penn is not in a great neighborhood either.
2. Penn would be considered a better school than Columbia academically speaking, and they have a better reputation. It is harder to get into Penn than Columbia, and they get the students with the better stats. If you are looking at going into a competitive residency, that could factor into your situation.
3. Where did you feel the most comfortable? If you don't feel like you have a good idea about the students and the environment and such, go to the second look weekends and talk to as many people as possible. Amidst academic concerns, you do have to live there and deal with the other students for 4 years, so make sure that you like it there.

Good luck!

 

[Thewonderer]

I would not say that Penn has a better rep than Columbia. Go with your gut feeling....

But, honestly, with their 30-minute single interview at Columbia and rushing people in and out of the doors, I don't see how you can get a good feel about THAT school.

 

[Dr. L]

If you feel like you need to know more about a school just call the admissions committee and ask if you can have the names of med students to contact or if you can come have a second look at the school (if there isn't an official one.) Once you've been accepted to a school they want to do all they can to make you decide on their school. Take advantage of that position so that you make the best possible decision for yourself.

 

[Lt. Ub]

Penn's neighborhood is just fine - it's right next to Center City (where my 80% of my class lives) and all the fun!

 

[P&S-CC3]

First off, let me say that I have a clear bias here as I am a current third year at Columbia. That being said, I would warn strongly against using the USNews ratings to decide which medical school you want to spend the next four years of your life at. While "Student Selectivity" is important as a general idea, there is more to being a good student and a decent person and especially a colleague than an MCAT score, a GPA, and an acceptance percentage (the components of that selectivity score FYI).
While it is true that Penn was the first medical school in the colonies, Columbia, founded in 1767 was the first medical school in the colonies to award the degree of MD. ( <a href="http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/ps/descrip.html" target="_blank">Columbia History Info</a> )

As far as reputation and academics I would honestly say that you are splitting hairs to say that one of these schools is clearly better than the other, furthermore, because they both have distinct curriculums and vastly different ideas about the fundamentals of medical education, the two systems can hardly be compared to each other. Think about your style of learning and what you prefer, however, keep in mind that you have no idea what will work best for you in medical school, this is learning on a scale that you have not seen as a college student and will never see again, no matter where you went to college or what your degree is in. This is learning that ends up with you making life and death decisions up close and personal. The liklihood is that you are good students, and will make whichever system you end up with work for you and not vice versa.

Also, you should think about Philly vs. NYC personally, I hate philadelphia and would have been bored out of my mind there, no offense intended, I have spent a good deal of time there and really felt that the city could not hold a candle to NYC on any scale with which one chooses to measure the two.

I would encourage you to return to both schools for "revisit" and meet as many current students and possible future classmates as possible. As others have said, if you have gotten into both of these schools, you will likely do very well for yourself anywhere.

As far as the match etc., I can only speak for Columbia in this regard. I can tell you that we were recently told that our class (the class of '03) had a USMLE step 1 average of 231. To put this in the proper context, passing=180, national average=215, Standard dev=15-19. What this means is that, on average, Columbia students scored nearly one standard deviation above the national mean. In addition, this class only had about two weeks to study for the boards due to a scheduling error that will never be repeated and we still managed to get the highest average score that Columbia has ever seen.
In terms of the National Match, this years fourth year class at Columbia had an excellent match with 7 people matching in neurosurgery, 7 people (actually low for us, likely to be about 20 or so next year b/c ppl taking years off for research) matching in orthopedic surgery, about 3 or 4 who matched in combined plastics programs for which there are about 90 spots nation wide, and a number of people matching in other categories at number one residencies i.e. Brigham/Womens, Mass General, CHOP, CH of Boston, etc...

Anyway, hope this helps, if you have any questions, let me know.
JB