Penn vs. Stanford

[gimili]

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I wasn't sure if anyone else had had this problem in ranking. I am not bound to either coast, but rather am looking for great clinical training with future job flexibility. Any advice would be appreciated.

If there are any past/current residents from either, input would be highly appreciated.

 

[IlDestriero]

I wasn't sure if anyone else had had this problem in ranking. I am not bound to either coast, but rather am looking for great clinical training with future job flexibility. Any advice would be appreciated.

If there are any past/current residents from either, input would be highly appreciated.

Do you have any specific questions about the programs that might help guide your decision? Both offer great training, great research opportunities, and a large alumni groups to network.
Do you want to live and work in a big city? Stanford is in an extended suburb of SF, a good 30-45 min away from real city life. You can't just hop a cab downtown and party like a rockstar on the weekends.

 

[interleukin2]

If you have specific questions that would help you that would make it easier. I cannot speak for Stanford but I am quite familiar with the HUP program. I assume Palo Alto vs. Philly doesn't make a huge difference to you.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Do you have any specific questions about the programs that might help guide your decision? Both offer great training, great research opportunities, and a large alumni groups to network.
Do you want to live and work in a big city? Stanford is in an extended suburb of SF, a good 30-45 min away from real city life. You can't just hop a cab downtown and party like a rockstar on the weekends.

Still a college town, lots of college gals to party like a rockstar with

 

[gimili]

Yea, I am not so interested in big-city vs. small suburb stuff. I am hitched with offspring, so partying like its '99 is not really the issue.

My big question is more about the national reputations of the programs. I know that the Bay area market is a tough nut to crack and generally you have to train at UCSF or Stanford. I would think the east coast would be easier simply due to the large size and the slurred nature of the north-east corridor. I just wanted the perspective of people further down the pike.

With Stanford, my question is that since the residents are the main workforce, are they relegated to "non-teaching cases" (ie. optho) simply to fill the service need. Also, it did not seem that alot of their residents left for fellowships.

With UPenn, I wonder how having so many pediatrics fellows will affect my training (I have an interest in Peds). How much can the residents actually utilize the ECC (competition, availability, etc)?

 

[Nooblet]

Can any Stanford residents comment on this issue - most of the residents I talked to on the interview day and most things I have read say that an average day is 6am to 7pm, plus call..and comes to about 70+ per week.

this is in pretty stark contrast to what Stanford has posted here:

http://med.stanford.edu/anesthesia/education/workhours.html

so whats the deal?

 

[interleukin2]

With UPenn, I wonder how having so many pediatrics fellows will affect my training (I have an interest in Peds). How much can the residents actually utilize the ECC (competition, availability, etc)?

Well with regards to Peds, as with any program we are required to do a rotation at CHOP during your CA-2 year, then in your CA-3 year you can elect to spend more time there, I have not done mine yet so I cannot speak about competition with fellows but from what I hear from those who have done it, there is plenty of work to go around. I would think that if you are thinking about peds it will be more than enough exposure to decide if you want to do the fellowship where you will get even more experience. One thing to keep in mind is that if you know you want peds going to Penn would not be a bad strategy as it will definitely help you if you apply to CHOP.
As far as ECC availability its a non-issue in that because in the months you can do it you are automatically assigned approx 3 shifts a month a lot of people give them up and you can take them. During your CA-1 year I would say 80% of your time is spent in the main OR where you are assigned ECC slots and can take as many as you want/can because as I stated many people give theirs up. Additionally when the main OR is extra busy come the afternoon, which happens quite frequently, they will ask for volunteers to stay late and get $$$. In summary there is ample opportunity to make significant extra cash if you have the stamina, trust me you will have days where $100/hr does not compete with getting home at 1830! Let me know if I can help you with anything else!

 

[its1louder]

Can any Stanford residents comment on this issue - most of the residents I talked to on the interview day and most things I have read say that an average day is 6am to 7pm, plus call..and comes to about 70+ per week.

this is in pretty stark contrast to what Stanford has posted here:

http://med.stanford.edu/anesthesia/education/workhours.html

so whats the deal?

Would also like to hear any Stanford resident input on this. I feel like I could do anything for 3 years. However, programs with more CRNAs make an attractive pitch when their residents don't have to do anything and everything that comes into the OR. Of course this doesn't really differentiate Penn (also very few CRNAs) from Stanford, but differentiates the two of them from most other programs.

 

[DoctorPain]

Yea, I am not so interested in big-city vs. small suburb stuff. I am hitched with offspring, so partying like its '99 is not really the issue.

My big question is more about the national reputations of the programs. I know that the Bay area market is a tough nut to crack and generally you have to train at UCSF or Stanford. I would think the east coast would be easier simply due to the large size and the slurred nature of the north-east corridor. I just wanted the perspective of people further down the pike.

With Stanford, my question is that since the residents are the main workforce, are they relegated to "non-teaching cases" (ie. optho) simply to fill the service need. Also, it did not seem that alot of their residents left for fellowships.

With UPenn, I wonder how having so many pediatrics fellows will affect my training (I have an interest in Peds). How much can the residents actually utilize the ECC (competition, availability, etc)?

CHOP is a huge hospital. I've never worked there, but I've had quite a few friends that have done peds fellowship there. My understanding is that there is plenty of work to go around and that fellows do their own cases (you are not doubled up).

Regarding your comment about "main-workforce" I asked the same question about Penn when I interviewed for residency. Unless things have changed, they do not have a lot of CRNAs and are also heavily dependent on residents for labor. My question was met with "We at Penn believe that every case has educational value ..." Also - they pay $100 an hour to compensate for this after a certain hour (5pm?). Not sure if same at Stanford.

 

[Spacedman]

Can any Stanford residents comment on this issue - most of the residents I talked to on the interview day and most things I have read say that an average day is 6am to 7pm, plus call..and comes to about 70+ per week.

this is in pretty stark contrast to what Stanford has posted here:

http://med.stanford.edu/anesthesia/education/workhours.html

so whats the deal?

current stanford resident here. not sure what or who your source material is, but my overall impression is that stanford is not significantly different from other similar programs for work hours. That said, I've heard that at Duke CRNAs relieve residents promptly at 5PM everyday, which kicks ass if it's true. (Blade and some of the other frequent posters on here may have a different view on that 😀).

I suppose I could now b!tch about the yearly rumor and misinformation cycles among interviewees, but i thought i'd just post my work hours for this academic year below. The graph is generated from our work hour logging program, and the hours are mostly accurate. In general, my experience has been that the FRIEDA data for our work hours are also accurate. Again, I'd be surprised if this very different from other similar programs.

for what it's worth, I also had a hard time deciding between Penn and Stanford. I don't think you'll find much difference between the two programs in terms of training or work hours. Each has its strong points, and for me it came down to which program was a better match for my research interests. I absolutely don't regret my decision, though I think I would've been happy at either place.

As for the fellowship question, I don't know the finally tally for this year's CA3s but about half maybe more are doing fellowships. A large chunk of those CA3s are staying at Stanford, and it's not because they couldn't escape to another program. Shhh, don't tell anyone, I think residents like it here.

If you have more questions, feel free to PM me.