People with high GPA but low MCAT - how'd it happen?

[JJMrK]

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and yes even the percentiles on the MCAT are displayed as a range...and they have a HUGE range...like a 10 on one section ranged from 45th percentile to 75th percentile..thats a huge freaking range...talk about it being standardized LOLLLLL 👎

That's because in some cases, a 10 might be missing 10-15 questions or something similar. Look here. You can see that the scale starts off very broad near the middle, but becomes increasingly narrower at the top. Thus, there is a huge difference between a 9 and an 10 (maybe 10 questions missed) in a section, but not so much between a 14 and a 15 (probably 1 question missed).

Righto. I should have said that a raw question score doesn't translate into the same scaled score every time.

I was wrong on percentiles.

Yeah, that part is right. Different scale for each test.

 

[paki20]

nah took the same test its just verbal is scaled much more differently than the rest of the sections...PS and BS have a really good curve so people who fall within a set range, lets say 7-10 questions wrong, can technically achieve the same score on ONE section of the same test..

am not even talking about different tests which too will have different scales when compared to other test dates

having said all this i do think MCAT is needed to standardize GPAs but my point is MCAT is in no way a good measure to determine whether you will make a good doctor or not and its unfortunate so much emphasis is placed on such a test that doesnt necessarily test your KNOWLEDGE base..for the doctors i have talked to they say that USMLE is easier to do well on because it tests your knowledge base unlike the MCAT though they do say the volume of content is 100x more than that of the MCAT..for example, Mayo Medical School prides itself on having one of highest average USMLE scores in the nation despite having lower MCAT averages than the top-10 schools..

a lot of the Nobel Laureates often tell stories of how they've failed numerous exams in their field of study...

 

[RunningDiva]

nah took the same test its just verbal is scaled much more differently than the rest of the sections...PS and BS have a really good curve so people who fall within a set range, lets say 7-10 questions wrong, can technically achieve the same score on ONE section..

I see what you mean. I assumed that each test is usually different in terms of what passages show up for each section. But yes, the science sections have a friendly curve compared to verbal. My point was to illustrate how a person could get more wrong and score higher when each took different tests.

If we could say that the MCAT is an intelligence test, it is fairly limited. Problem solving is just one aspect of the usual general definition.

 

[paki20]

If we could say that the MCAT is an intelligence test, it is fairly limited. Problem solving is just one aspect of the usual general definition.

yeah exactly..intelligence is multi-dimensional and not determined by one factor (ie problem-solving or route memorization)..and honestly anything that will make you use your brain and think for a second can be argued as testing your intelligence..

 

[RunningDiva]

having said all this i do think MCAT is needed to standardize GPAs but my point is MCAT is in no way a good measure to determine whether you will make a good doctor or not and its unfortunate so much emphasis is placed on such a test that doesnt necessarily test your KNOWLEDGE base..for the doctors i have talked to they say that USMLE is easier to do well on because it tests your knowledge base unlike the MCAT though they do say the content is 100x more than the MCAT..

a lot of the Nobel Laureates often tell stories of how they've failed numerous exams in their field of study...

whole-heartedly agree!

the more standardized tests i take, the better i've gotten at them. i was technically labeled a "gifted" student in elementary school based on school performance but routinely scored well below the range of what people assumed to be the range for such students. school performance is not necessarily related to test scores, as stated by the OP.

 

[bamtuba]

i actually think the MCAT does measure intelligence. and my definition of intelligence is being able to solve a problem by analyzing info and having sound reasoning.

while yes, studying is required for the mcat, you really max out after 1-2 months of studying cuz the test isnt about how much bio/physics/chem you know.

I agree with the second sentence onward, but not the first.

Since you must have a "basic" working knowledge of the various subjects it is obviously not JUST about reasoning and the ability to problem solve. The familiarity one has in applying the basics of Physics, Organic, etc. CERTAINLY affects ones ability to quickly work through the problems posed by the MCAT no matter the question format.

For some, working through the science portions of the MCAT could be compared to an immigrant doing the verbal reasoning portion of the test with English as their second language. There will obviously be an advantage for another person from a primarily English speaking background, which nullifies the test-makers' ability to honestly gauge the "reasoning ability" of two such applicants. This makes the test as much about content as reasoning ability to an extent, though I would agree it does so less than your average college professor's idea of a "reason-based" exam.

 

[paki20]

No, it's not. Although not a bad score, a 235 is not even 80th percentile.

my bad i was confusing it with the 2 digit score..

 

[JasonE]

I agree with the second sentence onward, but not the first.

Since you must have a "basic" working knowledge of the various subjects it is obviously not JUST about reasoning and the ability to problem solve. The familiarity one has in applying the basics of Physics, Organic, etc. CERTAINLY affects ones ability to quickly work through the problems posed by the MCAT no matter the question format.

For some, working through the science portions of the MCAT could be compared to an immigrant doing the verbal reasoning portion of the test with English as their second language. There will obviously be an advantage for another person from a primarily English speaking background, which nullifies the test-makers' ability to honestly gauge the "reasoning ability" of two such applicants. This makes the test as much about content as reasoning ability to an extent, though I would agree it does so less than your average college professor's idea of a "reason-based" exam.

there are just so many bio majors who do well because all the information/analysis is spoon fed to them. then they take the test and get an A. its not hard. and then these people do poorly on the mcat. ive seen it so many times.

there are just too many classes in college that you can get an A in just by trying. its kind of sickening. this is why SO MANY ppl hate orgo, cuz thats often the only class many premeds take that required a bit of problem solving.

 

[RunningDiva]

there are just so many bio majors who do well because all the information/analysis is spoon fed to them. then they take the test and get an A. its not hard. and then these people do poorly on the mcat. ive seen it so many times.

there are just too many classes in college that you can get an A in just by trying. its kind of sickening. this is why SO MANY ppl hate orgo, cuz thats often the only class many premeds take that required a bit of problem solving.

heaven forbid i tried and got an A.

if bio isn't too hard, why don't all bio majors have 4.0s? maybe they don't try. or maybe because it does involve elements of application and problem solving, which are more difficult than rote memorization.

i see what you're saying about ochem though. it would be incredibly difficult to memorize every single reaction vs. learning and knowing the mechanisms. it is the application of the few mechanisms to reaction schemes you've never seen that makes the ochem part of the mcat intimidating.

 

[JasonE]

heaven forbid i tried and got an A.

if bio isn't too hard, why don't all bio majors have 4.0s? maybe they don't try. or maybe because it does involve elements of application and problem solving, which are more difficult than rote memorization.

i see what you're saying about ochem though. it would be incredibly difficult to memorize every single reaction vs. learning and knowing the mechanisms. it is the application of the few mechanisms to reaction schemes you've never seen that makes the ochem part of the mcat intimidating.

nah man, bio is all about effort. if you dont know the answer, you can sit there for 10000 hrs and still not know. any chem/math/engineering class, you can figure it out.

and with lots of effort, you may not get a 4.0, but you'll get a good gpa. for people who study in bio classes, the questions they get wrong are usually things they overlooked or poorly worded questions that studying would not help for. HUGE POINT: you never really see problem sets in bio classes cuz there arent any problems to solve. other classes have problem sets and require practice questions cuz you need to learn how to reason with the material. that takes practice

and when you say bio involves elements of problem solving, its not very deep. try and take a minute and understand the quantum mechanics behind ESR and hyperfine splitting. that would make most bio majors **** their pants

 

[RunningDiva]

nah man, bio is all about effort. if you dont know the answer, you can sit there for 10000 hrs and still not know. any chem/math/engineering class, you can figure it out.

and with lots of effort, you may not get a 4.0, but you'll get a good gpa. for people who study in bio classes, the questions they get wrong are usually things they overlooked or poorly worded questions that studying would not help for. HUGE POINT: you never really see problem sets in bio classes cuz there arent any problems to solve. other classes have problem sets and require practice questions cuz you need to learn how to reason with the material. that takes pracrice

and when you say bio involves elements of problem solving, its not very deep. try and take a minute and understand the quantum mechanics behind ESR and hyperfine splitting. that would make most bio majors **** their pants

well, at this point we're comparing the difficulty and merits of different disciplines, which is a bit off topic. i've said my peace about mcat/gpa.

 

[s1lver]

poor test taking skills?

 

[XxNemesis29xX]

A good GPA doesn't require "smarts," just good work ethic and discipline. The MCAT requires a very strong capacity to think critically while juggling many topics in an interdisciplinary fashion. For me, 4 years of fairly challenging course work doesn't even come close to the challenge that 5 hour test can give you.

 

[thesauce]

A good GPA doesn't require "smarts," just good work ethic and discipline. The MCAT requires a very strong capacity to think critically while juggling many topics in an interdisciplinary fashion. For me, 4 years of fairly challenging course work doesn't even come close to the challenge that 5 hour test can give you.

And yet it pales in comparison to Step 1

 

[BBender716]

It happens with a lot of hard work and hours of studying. Consistency and no letdowns are paramount.

...oh I thought we were talking about how to get a high GPA when you have a low MCAT. 😉

 

[archimedesxx]

And yet it pales in comparison to Step 1

Well it's been shown time and time again that MCAT score has no direct correlation with Step 1 scores. Many people implode on the MCAT and still get 90+ percentiles on Step 1. Most med students have told me that the Steps are easy to ace if you study your butts out. For the MCAT, you can study intensely and still get a bad score.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It has? Actually, I'm fairly certain that it was determined to have a correlation of about 0.5 or so. That's not enough to go wild about (or even terribly significant at all), but to say there's "no direct correlation" is, well, wrong. You can most definitely study hard for Step 1 and bomb the hell out of it.

 

[bamtuba]

there are just so many bio majors who do well because all the information/analysis is spoon fed to them. then they take the test and get an A. its not hard. and then these people do poorly on the mcat. ive seen it so many times.

there are just too many classes in college that you can get an A in just by trying. its kind of sickening. this is why SO MANY ppl hate orgo, cuz thats often the only class many premeds take that required a bit of problem solving.

This is pretty true. I think we all know both rote memorization skills as well as reasoning are necessary for med school, but way too many courses only prepare you for the first.

This is also why I loved Organic. And I REALLY wish there would have been even more of it on my MCAT administration date...

 

[MB333999]

i have a 3.9 and got a 32 on my mcat. although this isnt a "bad" score, i still feel i could of done much better had i studied more and actually followed my schedule... but meh im too lazy to rewrite this will have to do. good thing i dont really care about going to places like harvard.

 

[bamtuba]

nah man, bio is all about effort. if you dont know the answer, you can sit there for 10000 hrs and still not know. any chem/math/engineering class, you can figure it out.

and with lots of effort, you may not get a 4.0, but you'll get a good gpa. for people who study in bio classes, the questions they get wrong are usually things they overlooked or poorly worded questions that studying would not help for. HUGE POINT: you never really see problem sets in bio classes cuz there arent any problems to solve. other classes have problem sets and require practice questions cuz you need to learn how to reason with the material. that takes practice

and when you say bio involves elements of problem solving, its not very deep. try and take a minute and understand the quantum mechanics behind ESR and hyperfine splitting. that would make most bio majors **** their pants

Dealing with this as we speak. Poorly worded questions suck. Especially when the answer the prof. wants is much more simple than the question you answer. 😡

 

[Dr McSexy]

Haha, I love all the people saying all the different stuff as to reasons why this happens. If you just skim this thread, it's pretty obvious that the people who *actually* have high GPAs and low/average/decent/whathaveyou MCATs have all stated that it was a lack a preparation on their part.

And I am totally with that. If you can maintain a 3.9+ GPA throughout college in *whocareswhatmajor* then if you can take the adequate amount of time to study and prepare for the MCAT, you would probably knock it out as well.

 

[thesauce]

Well it's been shown time and time again that MCAT score has no direct correlation with Step 1 scores. Many people implode on the MCAT and still get 90+ percentiles on Step 1. Most med students have told me that the Steps are easy to ace if you study your butts out. For the MCAT, you can study intensely and still get a bad score.

No it hasn't. And I really hope you're not mistaking the 2-digit score for a percentile, which had already been debunked once on this thread.

 

[bamtuba]

Haha, I love all the people saying all the different stuff as to reasons why this happens. If you just skim this thread, it's pretty obvious that the people who *actually* have high GPAs and low/average/decent/whathaveyou MCATs have all stated that it was a lack a preparation on their part.

And I am totally with that. If you can maintain a 3.9+ GPA throughout college in *whocareswhatmajor* then if you can take the adequate amount of time to study and prepare for the MCAT, you would probably knock it out as well.

Well, for me it was not a lack of preparation. I just didn't perform as well that day as I had been on diagnostics and felt I lost focus during the exam. But the reason doesn't matter. I was just happy I DID prepare as much as I did or it probably would have just gotten ugly...

 

[rHinO1]

It is due to lack of preparation.

Both a high MCAT and a high GPA require a lot of hard work. However, it is harder to maintain that high level of effort over 4 years (to get a high GPA) than over 4 months (to get a high MCAT). It makes sense if your GPA is low that you would work harder on having a high MCAT score. It is hard to find MCAT study time on top of the study time necessary to maintain a 4.0 GPA.

Big props to anyone who has both a high MCAT & a high GPA.

 

[NatrixCaelicola]

So I did study my butt off for the MCAT... my practice tests were all around 36-38 but the one that counted was a 31S (8-11-12).

As for my GPA, I have a 4.0 (and I wasn't someone who studied a million hours a day, I simply studied some but just understood the material).

I therefor don't think that it's due to a lack of preparation.

I also don't think that it is more perfect than a GPA. A GPA, as has been stated in other posts, is relative and ranks students in a school. It has constant professors that for the most part have an A from one year equal and A from another. The MCAT also ranks students relative to their peers, but unlike professors, the questions change test to test and the standards change as well.

Amongst my friends and other pre-meds, I have one of the highest GPAs yet one of the lower MCATs... not to mention, there isn't a correlation between our GPAs and MCATs as should be predicted by our GPAs ( us coming from the same institution, with the same professors), and our MCATs.

Not to mention, a test that you can do well on without understanding the material (aka take a Kaplan course and learn to do standardized tests), is not the best way to weed people out.

I also have to comment on the post that spoke about justifying all answers on a MC test. I am one of these people; I do horridly on MC tests, but if you ask me face to face, I'll knock your socks off. From my MCAT I still remember one of the questions... it asked which of the following gene splices would be used as a control [for the aforementioned experiment] (and then listed the options). I thought that there were two correct answers, the positive control and the negative control. Had they asked me how to do the experiment and what controls to use in an essay type fashion, then this wouldn't have been a problem; that being said I had to guess between the two and therefore probably got it wrong.

 

[Morsetlis]

High GPA, low MCAT = perseverance and stupidity.
Low GPA, high MCAT = laziness and brilliance.

 

[bamtuba]

High GPA, low MCAT = perseverance and stupidity.
Low GPA, high MCAT = laziness and brilliance.

Over-generalize much?

Let me fix it for you:


High GPA, low MCAT = consistent and dedicated.
Low GPA, high MCAT = rich parents and a Kaplan course, likely entitlement issues.

But in reality, there is no meaningful trend for either.

 

[thesauce]

High GPA, low MCAT = perseverance and stupidity.
Low GPA, high MCAT = laziness and brilliance.

Wins the award for least meaningful post

 

[BBender716]

So I did study my butt off for the MCAT... my practice tests were all around 36-38 but the one that counted was a 31S (8-11-12).

As for my GPA, I have a 4.0 (and I wasn't someone who studied a million hours a day, I simply studied some but just understood the material).

I therefor don't think that it's due to a lack of preparation.

I also don't think that it is more perfect than a GPA. A GPA, as has been stated in other posts, is relative and ranks students in a school. It has constant professors that for the most part have an A from one year equal and A from another. The MCAT also ranks students relative to their peers, but unlike professors, the questions change test to test and the standards change as well.

Amongst my friends and other pre-meds, I have one of the highest GPAs yet one of the lower MCATs... not to mention, there isn't a correlation between our GPAs and MCATs as should be predicted by our GPAs ( us coming from the same institution, with the same professors), and our MCATs.

Not to mention, a test that you can do well on without understanding the material (aka take a Kaplan course and learn to do standardized tests), is not the best way to weed people out.

I also have to comment on the post that spoke about justifying all answers on a MC test. I am one of these people; I do horridly on MC tests, but if you ask me face to face, I'll knock your socks off. From my MCAT I still remember one of the questions... it asked which of the following gene splices would be used as a control [for the aforementioned experiment] (and then listed the options). I thought that there were two correct answers, the positive control and the negative control. Had they asked me how to do the experiment and what controls to use in an essay type fashion, then this wouldn't have been a problem; that being said I had to guess between the two and therefore probably got it wrong.

Similar scenario for me as well. I've tried to stay away from this thread because I feel like many have tried to make generalizations about why this happens with people like us, but believe it or not, some people can have a bad test day for a variety of reasons. Whether that's because he or she went in extremely nervous or whether he collapsed when he got home and had a 100 degree fever for the next 3 days after taking 3 practice tests a week for the past 3 weeks which followed the 4 months of prep and other practice tests. 🙄

Yes, some of these discrepancies are a result of lack of prep and grade inflation. Point is why does anyone get a lower than expected score? For a given individual, who knows... it's as unique as the person who took the exam. I know the purpose of this thread is to make generalizations about why this happens, but instead, it'd be more accurate (though less powerful) to make a list. Because believe it or not, high GPAers are each different individuals. 😱

[/rant]

 

[FlowRate]

As a high MCAT person, I have to say I have always felt average in memorization abilities, but very above average in problem solving. Just some more anecdote for the fire.

 

[naijaboi]

Attack of the nerves. I can do well in college exams because I already believe that I will get an A in the final. If I get a less than desirable score on a test, I just have to work harder and make it up on the next exam, hence I am not nervous. The MCAT is a one shot deal - my palms get sweaty, my heart-rate goes up. I get very nervous and freak out. I scored 7 points lower than my average practice MCAT.

 

[Morsetlis]

As a high MCAT person, I have to say I have always felt average in memorization abilities, but very above average in problem solving. Just some more anecdote for the fire.

Same.

I hate memorization.

Anatomy is gonna kill me 🙁

 

[Morsetlis]

Wins the award for least meaningful post

No this one is! 😛