Ph.D. to MD switch

[thesubmarine]

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Hi guys,

I am currently in a 2nd year Biomedical Sciences Ph.D. program but I am realizing it is not my passion and that I prefer working with people and helping them directly. I am also 24 if it makes any difference, too old for med school? I took a clinical practicum course last semester and I really enjoyed my time in the psychiatry unit and the emergency department where I got to shadow. I enjoy interacting with patients, significantly more than doing research... anyway, long story short
I started volunteering in the hospital just to see if medicine is something I'd like and clocked in around 160 hours in ICU/emergency department + shadowing physicians. I will continue to volunteer because I am really enjoying it. I am thinking about switching to MD because I think it is a far better fit for me.
Unfortunately my science background isn't too great. I have a double major in psychology/math and a masters in psychology. My GPA is 3.27 from a really hardcore undergrad liberal arts school and I was a captain of a division 1 athletic team if it makes any difference. My masters gpa is 4.0. I have only taken two bio courses (intro (got A) + cell bio (permission of instructor, also got A) and just one semester of chem (A). Do you think I should take some time off to work in a medical field/volunteer more and take extra science classes? Or do you think I should apply to some postbac programs? I really don't think I want to continue with my Ph.D., but I am open to suggestions or any advice from people who might have been in similar situations. Do you think I have a chance of getting into any MD/DO programs? What kind of MCAT do I need to get to be competitive? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much in advance!

 

[beBrave]

Suddenly Ph.D and grad students are flocking here. DO with mcat 28 and above yes. MD more unlikely but not impossible.

 

[thesubmarine]

Suddenly Ph.D and grad students are flocking here. DO with mcat 28 and above yes. MD more unlikely but not impossible.

Do you mean that a lot of Ph.D. student want to switch? I really didn't know about it, just wanted to see what the options are. I appreciate your response. Thank you.

 

[beBrave]

Ph.D, MPH, J. D. I'm wondering if the economy caused so many people to go into post grad programs just to survive and now they are saying "oh crap".

 

[thesubmarine]

Ph.D, MPH, J. D. I'm wondering if the economy caused so many people to go into post grad programs just to survive and now they are saying "oh crap".

I see your point. You might be right but I obviously don't have enough stats to back that up. I didn't go into Ph.D. just because I didn't want to get a job. In fact I had a pretty nice job doing statistical analysis for a company lined up, but I wanted to pursue science. Only now I am realizing that it might not necessarily be science after all. I guess 24 isn't exactly too old to make a switch anyway. Thank you for responses!

 

[beBrave]

No you're not too old, just make sure this is something that you want.

 

[NZM33]

Ph.D, MPH, J. D. I'm wondering if the economy caused so many people to go into post grad programs just to survive and now they are saying "oh crap".

I don't know if you're referring to my thread, but my intention has always been the MD track; I just wanted my MPH first. I can't speak for anyone else, but I own a very lucrative import and sales operation in the equine industry and am certainly not pursuing any degree, MD or otherwise, for the sake of a paycheck. I don't really think it's fair to assume that others are doing that, either. Not everyone goes into medicine for the salary/job security.

 

[beBrave]

I don't know if you're referring to my thread, but my intention has always been the MD track; I just wanted my MPH first. I can't speak for anyone else, but I own a very lucrative import and sales operation in the equine industry and am certainly not pursuing any degree, MD or otherwise, for the sake of a paycheck. I don't really think it's fair to assume that others are doing that, either. Not everyone goes into medicine for the salary/job security.

One becomes a Medical Doctor to treat sick people. It sounds like you wanted to study them. MPH that's fine when studying populations but not for MD/DO, not for individual patients. There has been a major influx of drop outs and phd grads turning to medicine. It's just really odd. People with multiple Ph.D degrees who had no real passion for pursuing a Ph.D. Then you have the people who feel like medicine will fill a void in their lives and then you have the professional students.

 

[thesubmarine]

One becomes a Medical Doctor to treat sick people. It sounds like you wanted to study them. MPH that's fine when studying populations but not for MD/DO, not for individual patients. There has been a major influx of drop outs and phd grads turning to medicine. It's just really odd. People with multiple Ph.D degrees who had no real passion for pursuing a Ph.D. Then you have the people who feel like medicine will fill a void in their lives and then you have the professional students.

I understand your point, I don't really personally know of any ph.d. drop outs switching to medicine, nor do I understand the reason for doing so if you are not interested in treating individual patients. I, however, do enjoy my lab and my research (in the field of cocaine addiction), but I am realizing it would be a better fit for me to work with patients directly and I've been enjoying patient interaction even if it is only volunteering. I was originally considering going into clinical psychology but decided on a more biological focus, hence neuroscience. Anyway, I appreciate all the opinions I've gotten so far. Thank you.

 

[NZM33]

One becomes a Medical Doctor to treat sick people. It sounds like you wanted to study them. MPH that's fine when studying populations but not for MD/DO, not for individual patients. There has been a major influx of drop outs and phd grads turning to medicine. It's just really odd. People with multiple Ph.D degrees who had no real passion for pursuing a Ph.D. Then you have the people who feel like medicine will fill a void in their lives and then you have the professional students.

I'm terribly sorry you have that opinion of me. That's not the case at all. My medical interest lies in ortho sx, particularly traumatic ortho. Of my 200+ shadowing hours, 130 of those hours have been in ortho sx of one form or another. I love it. I'm excellent with my hands, I'm very visual, and extremely calm under pressure. I have the precision skills to work arthroscopically and the physical strength to reduce a dislocation or support a 100 kg man's limb during a pelvic repair. That doesn't mean that I don't want to put those skills to use in an underserved population where I can make use of my MPH by lessening the need for my (future) skillset. I would love to work in a community hospital in a rural setting or on a reservation. And a great deal of that work is preventing that patient from coming back to the OR. Isn't that the ultimate purpose of medicine? I'd rather never need to cut a patient open because we've done enough to advance medicine to a point that it's no longer needed (completely unrealistic, of course, but the sentiment still stands) than be so focused on my own desire to "treat" that I ignore the big picture which is - in a great deal of medicine - to promote and strive for wellness.

And I also think it's an exceedingly narrow view to think one becomes a doctor just to treat sick people. Take occupational health, for example. That is a field primarily devoted to prevention. Ergonomics, healthy buildings, job safety, health screenings...the list goes on and on. Yes, of course occ health treats work-related injuries, but that is just a fraction of what they do. Shadow an occ health person for a day, or someone who works in a community health center. They're implementing primary and secondary preventions as often as they are signing a script or sending a patient for an MRI.

Or a completely different example: take a look at medical genetics. Yes, they *diagnose* genetic disorders (never have I met, shadowed, or seen as a patient a geneticist who *treats*. They tend to be at the helm of a complicated case involving a genetic disorder, but the care is assigned to various appropriate specialties), but they also spend a fair amount of time discussing the potential genetic ramifications of reproduction with perspective parents who have a familial/personal history of (insert genetic disorder of choice here). That's not treating the sick, that's educating and potentially preventing a person from being born into suffering.

It's not all about treating someone who is unwell; being a doctor is as much about keeping people from getting sick in the first place.

Perhaps it's you, not I, who needs to reevaluate why you're going into medicine...

 

[beBrave]

@NZM33 I'm going into medicine primarily to care for sick people. I love research but I separate patient care from research.

@thesubmarine I left my Ph.D in clinical Psych for similar reasons and now study biomedical science. I think you'll make a great Doctor as your heart is in the right place.

 

[deleted382095]

Ph.D, MPH, J. D. I'm wondering if the economy caused so many people to go into post grad programs just to survive and now they are saying "oh crap".

I would be lying if I said this wasn't one of the factors why I wanted to switch. I've always wanted to become a physician scientist, and the MD/PhD program at my current school was suspended due to budget cut. I decided to pursuit a PhD first because the degree is free and I truly enjoy my research projects and publish papers. However, the job market for science PhD is really bad (in both industry and academia). I had an internship at a well-known chemical company in the world (R&D division) before I started my PhD program. I found out that the company has been contracting out jobs to oversea in order to remain profitable, and only hire contractors (6/12/18/24 months), so the company don't have to pay for employees 401K and health insurance benefits.

It's even worse in academia, I know plenty of people are currently doing their 3rd or 4th postdocs and had to relocate every year or two. You really can't start a family or buy a house on a postdoc salary. They make about the same as an RN with an associate degree.

I remember there was a guy interviewing for an instrument specialist/technician position at my old school two years ago. He got his PhD from Texas at Austin and has done 6 postdocs already and with over 20+ publications. I'm not sure if he was married or not though but his research expertise was in environmental chemistry.