Pharmacist vs Engineer 20 years after graduation

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MrBonita

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I just wanted to compare someone who goes into engineering with a BS vs a Pharm.D over a timeline of 20 years.

An engineer needs a BS degree which would cost about $29,800. The starting wage of an Engineer is about $72,000. Over a lifetime an engineer’s wage can go up to 100,000.

For the purpose of 20 years.
10 x 72,000 = 720,000
10 x 100 = 1,000,000
20 year salary – dept = 1,720,000 - 29,800= 1,690,200 over 20 years

A pharmacist
On average, the complete cost of a pharmacy school program can range from $65,000 to up to $200,000. Median wage is about 117,000.
Since it takes 4 more years to go to pharmacy school. Only 16 years of work is to be used.
16 x 117,000 = 1,872,000
Wages – dept = overall pay after 20 years
1,872,000 – 100,000 = 1,772,000 over 20 years.

Conclusion. Basically, both professions over a 20 year period post undergrad, will likely put you in the same endpoint. Of course there will be huge variance, but this is a sample case.

References.
Cost of BS Degree
Here's how much the average student loan borrower owes when they graduate
Wage of Engineer
The 11 Top-Paying Jobs Straight out of College

The 6 Highest Paid Engineering Jobs

Cost of Pharm.D and wages

Cost vs Reward of Pharmacist School | Doctorly.org
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I know its not much of a variance but the 10 years as an engineer with a salary of 72K would put them at a different tax bracket also.
Not sure how you came up with 100K as the average debt for pharmacy school but if you look at the 2019-2020 tuitions for all schools, the average debt should be ~$200K, even more if you go out of state. Tableau Public

and also consider the accruing interest from that debt.
 
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If you want to go into engineering. Look up the city you want to live in. Look up the big engineering companies. Look up their entry level jobs. Meet the requirements for those jobs. If it's in a big city your likely going to need a masters with a 3.0 gpa and internships to sniff the job. If it's remote lower grades and no masters will likely be required.
 
You forgot to account for cyclical unemployment with engineering if you want to stay in the same city.
 
You also forgot that median wages for pharmacists will be around $60-70k if using a 20 year time horizon, and that is only if you’re lucky to get a job. Otherwise it’s $0.
 
Pharmacy is a Scam said:
You also forgot that median wages for pharmacists will be around $60-70k if using a 20 year time horizon, and that is only if you’re lucky to get a job. Otherwise it’s $0.
Click to expand...

I mean that’s about as useful a prediction as those click bait spam articles that claim the market is going to crash.
 
I got some friends who work in Silicon Valley pulling in 400k to 500k a year after getting a BS in computer science. They all graduated during the .com era in the last 90s. Most of them work for Facebook, Yahoo, or Google. The pay is ridiculous. However the cost of living in Northern Cali sucks. I went to McDonalds and the Big Mac combo ran for 14.79. Here where I live, the Big Mac combo runs for 7.99.
 
confettiflyer said:
Same here, more of my pharmacist friends are satisfied with their jobs than my engineer friends....but then again most of my pharmacist friends are 5-10 year experienced clinicians that graduated 7-10 ish years ago.
Click to expand...
Hell I graduated in 2018 and I still know plenty of my friends from undergrad who aren’t satisfied with their jobs.
 
MrBonita said:
I got some friends who work in Silicon Valley pulling in 400k to 500k a year after getting a BS in computer science. They all graduated during the .com era in the last 90s. Most of them work for Facebook, Yahoo, or Google. The pay is ridiculous. However the cost of living in Northern Cali sucks. I went to McDonalds and the Big Mac combo ran for 14.79. Here where I live, the Big Mac combo runs for 7.99.
Click to expand...

Same got some friends doing infosec in the DC/VA area pulling in 250k+. They began to surpass rph salaries like 5 years after graduation. They get calls from headhunters like almost every week bc they have clearance status. Sure, you have to be good but I think that's the rule for anything in life.
 
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Lnsean said:
Same got some friends doing infosec in the DC/VA area pulling in 250k+. They began to surpass rph salaries like 5 years after graduation. They get calls from headhunters like almost every week bc they have clearance status. Sure, you have to be good but I think that's the rule for anything in life.
Click to expand...

And adding to that, I know a bunch of pharmacists (100+) in Piscataway, NJ (NJ, could you believe it?!) who make $300k a year before bonuses at both GSK and AstraZeneca, who cares about those other 90% of the losers who work for Walgreens, CVS, etc /s? That's what I think when someone tells me Baylife salaries for IT workers, they are in that same category.

About clearance status, depending on how high up it is (the one that has the "ask your neighbors intimate questions", the one that they ask you intimate questions with "leads", and the one that asks your "tastes" in certain categories explicitly), and it costs between $10k and $50k every 5 years, which is quite a burden. Especially for non-uniformed TS or TS/SCI holders, they are very hard to keep because of their lifestyle restrictions and lack of privacy. For Infosec, that's actually median, I would expect them to make more in a couple of years.
 
Pharmacy is a Scam said:
You also forgot that median wages for pharmacists will be around $60-70k if using a 20 year time horizon, and that is only if you’re lucky to get a job. Otherwise it’s $0.
Click to expand...

I'd project something like 80k as a blended average median wage over the next 20 years for pharmacists. Definitely not worth four extra years of school and lost income with a nice heap of $200k+ debt. There's also the very real risk that retail pharmacy completely crashes like the mall sector and various parts of retail have.
 
Honestly, as it is now, I don't know why anyone would consider doing a $200k loan to go through pharmacy which such an unstable market right now and a consistently declining wage. Only reason I even went through was pharmacy was because I had the support of family so I didn't have to take out any loans with interest. Even looking at it optimistically is hard because just in the last few years alone, my state (NYS) opened up multiple new pharmacy schools and old schools increased their student caps but the amount of pharmacies have decreased significantly and there are hardly any new pharmacies to take their place.
 
angelsplight said:
Honestly, as it is now, I don't know why anyone would consider doing a $200k loan to go through pharmacy which such an unstable market right now and a consistently declining wage. Only reason I even went through was pharmacy was because I had the support of family so I didn't have to take out any loans with interest. Even looking at it optimistically is hard because just in the last few years alone, my state (NYS) opened up multiple new pharmacy schools and old schools increased their student caps but the amount of pharmacies have decreased significantly and there are hardly any new pharmacies to take their place.
Click to expand...
what new schools? Touro and St. John Fischer was a bad idea
 
angelsplight said:
Binghamton University and Stony Brook University (Which currently suspended their applications)
Click to expand...
Wow I didn't know Binghamton had one as well. I've been out of new pharmacy school loops for a while. Seems like satruration will only get worse . Then schools still say there is a demand for pharmacist
 
Lubeckd said:
Wow I didn't know Binghamton had one as well. I've been out of new pharmacy school loops for a while. Seems like satruration will only get worse . Then schools still say there is a demand for pharmacist
Click to expand...
Both are recent. And I heard LIUs pharmacy class admittance was double the max compared to normal this year. I found out about this when I joked with the chief proctor after I finished my compounding boards.
 
400 like Boston? Liu class size was 220 when I was there. Now decrease to 200.
150 for early assurances for pre Pharm in their program... now it's 71. Something is going up in liu. I could take a look in the campus but I'm too busy on my side stuff now.
 
Lubeckd said:
400 like Boston? Liu class size was 220 when I was there. Now decrease to 200.
150 for early assurances for pre Pharm in their program... now it's 71. Something is going up in liu. I could take a look in the campus but I'm too busy on my side stuff now.
Click to expand...
Most likely they just admit more than their max class size because they don't expect many students keep their seat and go to another school. I know it was that way with my school where they admitted close to 100 but the class size was a little over 50 for the 2021? Class. Gotta milk the business as much as they can. The ironic part about this thread is the reason I don't have about debt with interest I need to worry about immediately is because I borrowed from my family member who is an engineer 🤔
 
angelsplight said:
Most likely they just admit more than their max class size because they don't expect many students keep their seat and go to another school. I know it was that way with my school where they admitted close to 100 but the class size was a little over 50 for the 2021? Class. Gotta milk the business as much as they can. The ironic part about this thread is the reason I don't have about debt with interest I need to worry about immediately is because I borrowed from my family member who is an engineer 🤔
Click to expand...
50 lose their seats.
 
Gombrich12 said:
I'd project something like 80k as a blended average median wage over the next 20 years for pharmacists. Definitely not worth four extra years of school and lost income with a nice heap of $200k+ debt. There's also the very real risk that retail pharmacy completely crashes like the mall sector and various parts of retail have.
Click to expand...

I dont see how this would happen. If salary drops to $80k, literally no one would go to pharmacy school. Lol. Especially with $200k debt.
 
MrBonita said:
I got some friends who work in Silicon Valley pulling in 400k to 500k a year after getting a BS in computer science. They all graduated during the .com era in the last 90s. Most of them work for Facebook, Yahoo, or Google. The pay is ridiculous. However the cost of living in Northern Cali sucks. I went to McDonalds and the Big Mac combo ran for 14.79. Here where I live, the Big Mac combo runs for 7.99.
Click to expand...

The hell you were in California, home state of farm to fork and some of the best food in the nation and you went to...McD’s?

Please tell me this was an airport....or you were in the middle of nowhere headed to LA.

It’s like when I hear locals say “I went to visit NYC and ate at the Bubba Gump Shrimp Co in Times Square! What a treat!”
 
angelsplight said:
Honestly, as it is now, I don't know why anyone would consider doing a $200k loan to go through pharmacy which such an unstable market right now and a
Click to expand...

It’s because federal programs in place for student loan repayment render total balance obsolete.

Doesn’t matter if you’re $200k or $2M in debt, you pay 10% of your income above FPL and have it forgiven in 25 years.

I feel that most people just view this as a 10% tax for life and adjust their expectations accordingly. I know I would.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
I dont see how this would happen. If salary drops to $80k, literally no one would go to pharmacy school. Lol. Especially with $200k debt.
Click to expand...

People still are going to pharmacy school based on these numbers. First off, they are in denial about how bad the job market is or that they themselves will be affected. Second, they do not understand the concepts of compound interest and opportunity costs while in school. Most people do not understand how debt works.

If pharmacy required you to take out $500k in loans and spend 8 years in school and residency for a $100k salary many students would still go. To them, it's still better than earning $30-45k/year doing grunt work in a lab at best.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
I dont see how this would happen. If salary drops to $80k, literally no one would go to pharmacy school. Lol. Especially with $200k debt.
Click to expand...

You never know. Some people just do stupid stuff for recognition. I knew people here who went to NYU for business major with a tuition of 80k a year. Not even sure what he does now but last I heard he just works at a bank.
 
stoichiometrist said:
If pharmacy required you to take out $500k in loans and spend 8 years in school and residency for a $100k salary many students would still go. To them, it's still better than earning $30-45k/year doing grunt work in a lab at best.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. I have plenty of former lab rat friends that made this same calculation.

If I’m making $40k/yr today at some dead end position, and my value proposition is DOUBLE my salary ($80k/yr hypothetical) and pay only $6,162/yr in student loan payments after? I’d still be making $33,838 more than I am today.

Some people would call that a fair trade.
 
One thing no one is mentioning is that you don't have to take 16 hours of courses in engineering if you do engineering. Instead you can take a light load to keep your grades up and have some time to breath some. If your debating between a 2+4 program and engineering consider a 4+1 program done over 6 years instead of 5. That ten hours of free time not in class or studying can quickly turn into a date and maybe a party or adventure each week.
 
stoichiometrist said:
People still are going to pharmacy school based on these numbers. First off, they are in denial about how bad the job market is or that they themselves will be affected. Second, they do not understand the concepts of compound interest and opportunity costs while in school. Most people do not understand how debt works.

If pharmacy required you to take out $500k in loans and spend 8 years in school and residency for a $100k salary many students would still go. To them, it's still better than earning $30-45k/year doing grunt work in a lab at best.
Click to expand...

Well again, student loan with 20 year forgiven plan is what changes the game. I can pay $600 a month and still live a good life as a pharmacist and save a ton of money for future. Especially with a spouse who makes a decent amount as well. But no way in hell am i going through pharmacy school and make less than $100k lol let alone less than $120k.
 
MrBonita said:
I just wanted to compare someone who goes into engineering with a BS vs a Pharm.D over a timeline of 20 years.

An engineer needs a BS degree which would cost about $29,800. The starting wage of an Engineer is about $72,000. Over a lifetime an engineer’s wage can go up to 100,000.

For the purpose of 20 years.
10 x 72,000 = 720,000
10 x 100 = 1,000,000
20 year salary – dept = 1,720,000 - 29,800= 1,690,200 over 20 years

A pharmacist
On average, the complete cost of a pharmacy school program can range from $65,000 to up to $200,000. Median wage is about 117,000.
Since it takes 4 more years to go to pharmacy school. Only 16 years of work is to be used.
16 x 117,000 = 1,872,000
Wages – dept = overall pay after 20 years
1,872,000 – 100,000 = 1,772,000 over 20 years.

Conclusion. Basically, both professions over a 20 year period post undergrad, will likely put you in the same endpoint. Of course there will be huge variance, but this is a sample case.

References.
Cost of BS Degree
Here's how much the average student loan borrower owes when they graduate
Wage of Engineer
The 11 Top-Paying Jobs Straight out of College

The 6 Highest Paid Engineering Jobs

Cost of Pharm.D and wages

Cost vs Reward of Pharmacist School | Doctorly.org
Click to expand...

What kind of engineering are you talking about? Electrical, chemical, mechanical, software, computer, civil, environmental, aerospace?

Some other factors to consider:
-Lower tax bracket (as mentioned before)
-Lower salaried engineers are eligible for student loan deduction
-Most engineers are salaried so they often have to work over 40 hours per week but don't get paid overtime
-Engineers can afford a home sooner so their net worth will increase faster
 
confettiflyer said:
Pretty much this. I have plenty of former lab rat friends that made this same calculation.

If I’m making $40k/yr today at some dead end position, and my value proposition is DOUBLE my salary ($80k/yr hypothetical) and pay only $6,162/yr in student loan payments after? I’d still be making $33,838 more than I am today.

Some people would call that a fair trade.
Click to expand...

In my case I am in the same position, only difference is I am taking out debt out of the equation.
 
The median and mean salary for an engineering manager is like 135 a year. Your likely banking six figures five years out of school. If you go into something like mining or oil and gas 140 a year four years out is the norm.
 
redfish955 said:
The median and mean salary for an engineering manager is like 135 a year. Your likely banking six figures five years out of school. If you go into something like mining or oil and gas 140 a year four years out is the norm.
Click to expand...

Five years is ambitious, I would say most engineering managers have at least ten years experience. Of course they're in charge of 4+ staff engineers and work 50-70 hours per week. It's not like pharmacy where you can clock out and go home. If there are deadlines to meet then they're staying late at the office, working weekends until the project is done. Otherwise they risk losing clients. They constantly have to create proposals to compete with other companies to win contracts. It's a whole different level of stress. If you don't win any contracts then there's no work which means you're laid off. In pharmacy, you don't have to worry about having work available or keeping track of which client to bill your hours to. The grass is always greener.
 
i made this comparison, more formally, in high school as part of a presentation for one of my classes (pharmacist vs. chemical engineer). can't remember for which class it was, but hey! look where i found myself. no regrets, yet.
 
I would put a high gpa 4+1 masters ahead of pharmacy school. It will land you that job with boeing, raytheon, facebook, or etc. that will get you to 150k a year in the south or 275k a year in silicone valley. Then I would put a 2+4 program. Then I would put a 2.8 gpa bachelors engineer. Then I would put a low gpa/ masters in biology or ect. on par with each other. A low gpa engineer will likely start out as a technician and there are a lot of smart people with low gpas in engineering. If your interested in engineering don't do it unless you would be ok with working as a technician for $70k a year. You should be really passionate about it. The key to engineering financials is that you should live very frugal until your 30 even if you don't have to. If you do this you will be on par with physicians and ect. the rest of your life.
 
redfish955 said:
I would put a high gpa 4+1 masters ahead of pharmacy school. It will land you that job with boeing, raytheon, facebook, or etc. that will get you to 150k a year in the south or 275k a year in silicone valley. Then I would put a 2+4 program. Then I would put a 2.8 gpa bachelors engineer. Then I would put a low gpa/ masters in biology or ect. on par with each other. A low gpa engineer will likely start out as a technician and there are a lot of smart people with low gpas in engineering. If your interested in engineering don't do it unless you would be ok with working as a technician for $70k a year. You should be really passionate about it. The key to engineering financials is that you should live very frugal until your 30 even if you don't have to. If you do this you will be on par with physicians and ect. the rest of your life.
Click to expand...

GPA doesn't matter in engineering, as with nearly all professional fields. No employer will ask for your GPA or transcript and no one puts it on their resume. All they care about are results and they will determine if you can get them during your probation period.
 
Not true IMO .. when I graduated, the most lucrative paths in engineering were finance & consulting type roles (take a look at where most MIT engineers end up). In these fields, recruiting is heavily dependent on signaling factors like prestige of institution, GPA, etc. I know this still holds true with perhaps the addition of tech as another lucrative career path
 
mentos said:
GPA doesn't matter in engineering, as with nearly all professional fields. No employer will ask for your GPA or transcript and no one puts it on their resume. All they care about are results and they will determine if you can get them during your probation period.
Click to expand...
To land the internships your looking at a gpa requirement. To get into the masters programs your looking at a gpa requirement. To land a job at any desirable company your looking at a gpa requirement. Sure, there may be a few exceptions but 99% of them have a requirement.
 
redfish955 said:
To land the internships your looking at a gpa requirement. To get into the masters programs your looking at a gpa requirement. To land a job at any desirable company your looking at a gpa requirement. Sure, there may be a few exceptions but 99% of them have a requirement.
Click to expand...

What kind of engineering are you talking about? What I said applies to mechanical, computer, electrical, chemical, civil, aerospace, environmental and software. Grad school is a waste of time and money, most engineers don't go there. Even if they do, the acceptance rate is high as they are trying to fill seats (sound familiar?). An internship is just a paid student, no GPA required. No job asks for your GPA. My friend is a cloud engineer in San Francisco and he never had to tell anyone his GPA and none of his colleagues went to grad school.

Go to any state university and they all have the old saying: "What do you call someone with a 4.0 GPA? Engineer. What do you call someone with a 2.5 GPA? Engineer".
 
mentos said:
What kind of engineering are you talking about? What I said applies to mechanical, computer, electrical, chemical, civil, aerospace, environmental and software. Grad school is a waste of time and money, most engineers don't go there. Even if they do, the acceptance rate is high as they are trying to fill seats (sound familiar?). An internship is just a paid student, no GPA required. No job asks for your GPA. My friend is a cloud engineer in San Francisco and he never had to tell anyone his GPA and none of his colleagues went to grad school.

Go to any state university and they all have the old saying: "What do you call someone with a 4.0 GPA? Engineer. What do you call someone with a 2.5 GPA? Engineer".
Click to expand...

Most of cloud engineering is certificate based. You either passed the certifications or you didn't. I have heard the bay area is more lenient about grades but most of the country isn't that way.
 
^After your first job no one really cares about your GPA. At least in Software/Tech.
 
My experience is that GPA matters as well. Obviously in most industries, your GPA doesn't matter after your first job .. but your first job has a huge impact on your trajectory
 
Lubeckd said:
I feel like this thread is engineer plus tech 2.0
Click to expand...

Well, it's not really an apples to apples comparison. If your only in it for the money go to medical school. A career earnings of 10 million is tough to beat. If you do engineering and your not going to make it into medical school there is a good chance your career trajectory will suck and you may only earn 3 million during your career. The only way I would do engineering is if I was super passionate about it and knew I could get a job at the company I wanted to work at. Otherwise it will be an uphill battle the entire time.
 
redfish955 said:
Well, it's not really an apples to apples comparison. If your only in it for the money go to medical school. A career earnings of 10 million is tough to beat. If you do engineering and your not going to make it into medical school there is a good chance your career trajectory will suck and you may only earn 3 million during your career. The only way I would do engineering is if I was super passionate about it and knew I could get a job at the company I wanted to work at. Otherwise it will be an uphill battle the entire time.
Click to expand...

Do NOT pursue medical school if you are only in it for the money. Not only will you be miserable working long hours at something you do not enjoy, it is not worth the risk if you don't do well on your STEPs and end up in a lower paying specialty compared to your loans.
 
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