pharmacist with MBA major...

[arcado]

hi, is it possible to have advise from anyone? I try to apply MBA sch.. which MBA major will be helpful for community pharmacist?

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[CetiAlphaFive]

hi, is it possible to have advise from anyone? I try to apply MBA sch.. which MBA major will be helpful for community pharmacist?

What do you plan on using the MBA for?

 

[arcado]

What do you plan on using the MBA for?

wish it help me a little when I run community pharmacy and also looking good my resume

 

[lord999]

Entrepreneurship option. Won't differentiate you necessarily if you are going to work for someone, but would help you understand what's important when you learn a pharmacy business from someone else's dime to hopefully open your own in the future.

I've discussed on other posts that if you're going corporate, you should not get your MBA now. You should wait until your workplace sponsors you as most MBA's aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Also, you should pick up a Business Etiquette book. Writing posts like that is a poor sign of trust building when trying to promote Brand You.

 

[arcado]

Entrepreneurship option. Won't differentiate you necessarily if you are going to work for someone, but would help you understand what's important when you learn a pharmacy business from someone else's dime to hopefully open your own in the future.

I've discussed on other posts that if you're going corporate, you should not get your MBA now. You should wait until your workplace sponsors you as most MBA's aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Also, you should pick up a Business Etiquette book. Writing posts like that is a poor sign of trust building when trying to promote Brand You.

what do you mean by "poor sign of trust building "

 

[lord999]

what do you mean by "poor sign of trust building "

I have no idea who you are, but I already know you do not care to present yourself with a sufficient command of English when you think it does not matter.

 

[arcado]

I have no idea who you are, but I already know you do not care to present yourself with a sufficient command of English when you think it does not matter.

I am not trying to brand myself here. I just try to ask a simple question by my phone while I work at pharmacy. the MBA' sch deadline is comming i need to decide which major I choose ASAP. that's the act of stupidity when you determine someone's etiquette by one single post. that doesn't make sense and so wrong. i wish you don't make same mistake to people who love you because no one will have much patient when you try to judge them without knowing well about them.

 

[CountBy5s]

wish it help me a little when I run community pharmacy and also looking good my resume

Maybe purchase some good books might be a better investment. I don't know many pharmacists who have made the leap to DM. But I am sure they are out there. I have thought about purchasing some books myself but I would not take on loans for this knowledge.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I am not trying to brand myself here. I just try to ask a simple question by my phone while I work at pharmacy. the MBA' sch deadline is comming i need to decide which major I choose ASAP. that's the act of stupidity when you determine someone's etiquette by one single post. that doesn't make sense and so wrong. i wish you don't make same mistake to people who love you because no one will have much patient when you try to judge them without knowing well about them.

Sorry, but he's right.

You stand absolutely 0.0% chance of making it into management with such extremely poor English.

 

[lord999]

I am not trying to brand myself here. I just try to ask a simple question by my phone while I work at pharmacy. the MBA' sch deadline is comming i need to decide which major I choose ASAP. that's the act of stupidity when you determine someone's etiquette by one single post. that doesn't make sense and so wrong. i wish you don't make same mistake to people who love you because no one will have much patient when you try to judge them without knowing well about them.

No, the point is that if you do not have the wisdom enough to view everyone as a potential asset and at least act like it, then what point is there in teaching someone the tricks on how to work with people who are your liabilities? If you cannot act with deliberation without being supervised, then a fate where you are supervised is what you can expect. And if you read your own words, stupidity is what you assume that you need to deal with internally. No one has any time to get to know anyone unless you present some possible benefit, and in your case, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Dr.J.D]

He's probably an immigrant, or English is not his first language. Who knows? But I do know a lot of people who have poor English, and are madly successful. Yes, including some pharmacists.

 

[lord999]

He's probably an immigrant, or English is not his first language. Who knows? But I do know a lot of people who have poor English, and are madly successful. Yes, including some pharmacists.

And English is not mine either, but you do not get the benefit of the doubt in business for having poor English diction and usage. Same, I do know people who are successful in spite of their command of the language, but it is a limitation and is still not something you want to have. But this depends on success, we're a lot more forgiving in health care and IT because there are not enough native born competent personnel. But, there is a reason why there is an emphasis on those skills, and I was more after the mentality. Even with poor language skills, there's ways to self-correct for that in presentation.

 

[Momus]

A few of my friends who completed dual degree MBA and Pharm D in school work for pharmaceutical companies as associate director or manager. I think they are making $160-180k+ base salary with good bonus potential.

 

[Rouelle]

Well I am certainly no expert, but I have been led to believe the following from multiple sources:

1. An MBA is not designed to be an entry level degree, but rather an opportunity for people with workforce experience (in business) to combine practical experience with additional schooling to add on the theoretical basis of knowledge. As a result:

A. Top MBA programs typically don't recruit/accept people straight out of undergrad with no experience at anything.

B. People straight out of undergrad should not expect to succeed at a top program because they lack the experience at life that the programs were designed around.

2. Low level MBA programs are a dime a dozen because everyone mistakenly thinks a cheap MBA will set them apart from the crowd, thus everyone gets one. As a result, only degrees from quality MBA programs have any real value because everyone and their dog has a crappy MBA.

3. Everyone I that I know and have personally talked to that got an MBA thinks it's a waste and they could do exactly the same job without it.

 

[Dr.J.D]

Why don't you just do part MBA after you graduate from pharmacy school?

 

[lord999]

I completely agree that a degree from a top level school would be better. However, I feel like what you're talking about applies less to local pharmacy operations and more to those gunning for top level corporate management. For someone who wants to work as a pharmacist and then work a bit up the ladder, open my own store, land an excellent entry level position with a PBM, pharmaceutical company, etc. I really do think it can open some doors, provide career flexibility and teach some valuable information. Not everyone wants to move to Rhode Island to work at CVS headquarters.

For my purposes getting an MBA for a very cheap price (typically a joint degree program at a rural state school) seems worth it. And if I don't get it now, I better hope someone else will pay for it in the future because the sale will have long ended. I'm learning things about business and gathering resources while I'm still in pharmacy school far and above what I would have had otherwise. Even after only two years interning at a pharmacy I understand pharmacy operations well enough to help me get value out of my degree and I feel better prepared for management. I can tell you from experience that there are many pharmacy managers/store owners out there who understand little to nothing about accounting, finance, marketing, etc. and they suffer because of it. And no not everyone in the pharmacy world has an MBA. At my school only 4% of students are doing the joint program keeping in mind it's probably only that high since students are trying to differentiate themselves more than ever now in this market.

I guess it depends on what cost you have to pay to get the MBA, who you're trying to impress with those three letters and whether you think the information learned will help you in the future. I think we should be very careful saying an MBA is always a bad or a good idea--it depends on a person's unique situation. For me it only cost 5k and zero lost wages since my degree will be finished before I graduate. For others, I could see where the cost wouldn't be worth it. In sum, my MBA gives me more career flexibility and in today's changing market that doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Hell maybe I'll work for Amazon some day.

The reason why the MBA is usually a midcareer is that you do not have enough work experience to really take advantage of some of the lessons that can be learned, or value certain topics as much. For me, the organizational behavior aspect would have not been as useful except for the fact that I had prior civil service experience before having the class. If you need to learn how to run a business, then sure, it doesn't really matter where you go to so long as you're exposed to accountancy, finance, organizational behavior, management, and logistics, but if you are going corporate, not a bright idea unless the degree is essentially free. It's not something that's considered for pharmacy jobs right now as a differentiator, but if you're getting it for free (except for your time which is still some value), why not? However, in most cases, it's a $ add on, which they don't go through the effort of actually giving you the real program. Basically at the private schools, it a degree being sold without scruples, the sort of people that you are taught in MBA school to take advantage of.

 

[Jbrl]

I completely agree that a degree from a top level school would be better. However, I feel like what you're talking about applies less to local pharmacy operations and more to those gunning for top level corporate management. For someone who wants to work as a pharmacist and then work a bit up the ladder, open my own store, land an excellent entry level position with a PBM, pharmaceutical company, etc. I really do think it can open some doors, provide career flexibility and teach some valuable information. Not everyone wants to move to Rhode Island to work at CVS headquarters.

For my purposes getting an MBA for a very cheap price (typically a joint degree program at a rural state school) seems worth it. And if I don't get it now, I better hope someone else will pay for it in the future because the sale will have long ended. I'm learning things about business and gathering resources while I'm still in pharmacy school far and above what I would have had otherwise. Even after only two years interning at a pharmacy I understand pharmacy operations well enough to help me get value out of my degree and I feel better prepared for management. I can tell you from experience that there are many pharmacy managers/store owners out there who understand little to nothing about accounting, finance, marketing, etc. and they suffer because of it. And no not everyone in the pharmacy world has an MBA. At my school only 4% of students are doing the joint program keeping in mind it's probably only that high since students are trying to differentiate themselves more than ever now in this market.

I guess it depends on what cost you have to pay to get the MBA, who you're trying to impress with those three letters and whether you think the information learned will help you in the future. I think we should be very careful saying an MBA is always a bad or a good idea--it depends on a person's unique situation. For me it only cost 5k and zero lost wages since my degree will be finished before I graduate. For others, I could see where the cost wouldn't be worth it. In sum, my MBA gives me more career flexibility and in today's changing market that doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Hell maybe I'll work for Amazon some day.

You bring up some good points. The biggest question that arises is: why an MBA? Why not self-study? Why not Coursera certificates or Harvard CORe and save the MBA network/reset card for later, if and when it's needed? Honestly curious to see what you think.

 

[Jbrl]

I'm not an expert on those self study courses, but I'll give it a shot. I do think they're valid options for the right people. I feel like I have to start by mentioning that Harvard Core still costs half as much as my MBA. An MBA still gives you acknowledgement that you've obtained a certain level of business knowledge that self study does not. I have to take many exams and turn in projects and homework way beyond what I believe either of those courses require. I think you would have a harder time marketing yourself with a self study certificate than an MBA which requires a higher time and financial commitment. With an MBA you're working with a wide variety of business experts in person. A lot of our class time is spent talking with guest speakers and with professors about real world subjects. We just had a local police officer talk to us about embezzlement in retail stores for example. I also just took a negotiations elective and I couldn't imagine doing the role playing simulations over the internet in the way that we did (the simulations were actually created at Harvard by the way and are widely distributed to MBA programs throughout the country). But again I haven't taken those programs so they may be very extensive and useful and maybe the final exam really is exhaustive.

Learning to work effectively with people is arguably the most important skill a person could have. I think there is a huge difference between working on a project with a group of people day in and day out in person and teleconferencing an exercise or two. And again I don't think I would have started the MBA program if I didn't have previous work experience. You cant really apply much of what you learn unless you know the factors relevant to pharmacy. In the end, the letters after your name get you in the door, what you can actually do keeps you there. I think each person should look at their individual options and goals and figure out what makes the most sense for them. In my case, the MBA was cheap, the market is uncertain, and the degree/knowledge gives me options/bargaining power. It's all about how you market yourself and in my opinion the MBA gives me a valuable marketing tool.

I'm not sure an MBA really is a "reset card." I have the business knowledge and the letters will continue to stay after my name and people will take me seriously as long as I put in an effort to keep up on my business knowledge. As far as MBA networking, no MBA or online self study program is going to cater to pharmacy management networking for one. I'll theoretically have access to my school's alumni network for life but who knows if that will actually be useful for a pharmacy career in the future. Look at Larry Merlo. He has no business education and simply worked up the corporate ladder from pharmacist to CEO with nothing but a B Pharm over his career.

The ROI of getting an MBA that costs close to nothing is probably a net plus for you no matter what, and it looks like you know exactly what you're getting out of it.

I just want to clarify one thing regarding "reset card:" when I use that phrase, I refer to people who are looking to move industries or functions - e.g. community pharmacy to PBM/pharma, pharmacy operations to strategy, field sales to marketing. It's not so much about the knowledge as it is about the connections and reputation/credibility the business program provides, as it's assumed you'll have a similar generalist curriculum anywhere you go. Although you never lose the letters or knowledge, once you have your MBA, it isn't as easy or convenient to make the switch, since you can't take advantage of student recruitment and will be considered an experienced hire. Less relevant for independent pharmacy, more relevant for corporate jobs.

Regarding Larry Merlo, I also don't believe you need an MBA for community/hospital, but I think we should take this information in context. Many of the executives today lived their early careers in a yesterday when extra degrees weren't encouraged or necessary. Nowadays, credential creep holds true for almost every industry, from investment banking to pharmacy. We can even see it in our terminal degrees: BPharm --> PharmD. I'm not in any position to comment specifically on CVS, but I'd hazard to guess that moving up the corporate ladder will require more than a BPharm nowadays (aren't MBAs encouraged for DMs?).

All-in-all, I think, as long as you know what you want out of your degree and don't foresee it changing, the dual degree route can work great. For certain industries and functions, it may work against you, so mileage may vary. I know a couple people who had business fellowships in biopharma and attained dual PharmD/MBA degrees from state schools; they regretted getting their business degrees so early as it effectively made the switch to business development, corporate strategy and high finance roles much much harder. It just goes back to what you stated, which is that it depends.

 

[jblil]

One other thing to consider when getting a MBA: the knowledge it will give you to manage your own investments. For me, my MBA (I got it in 1999, for $6K total (!) at a top-20 school) helped me invest wisely, esp. in the market downturn of 2007-2009. The degree also gives you a bit of street cred if you want to do business consulting on the side, like I am doing now.

 

[Rouelle]

I completely agree that a degree from a top level school would be better. However, I feel like what you're talking about applies less to local pharmacy operations and more to those gunning for top level corporate management. For someone who wants to work as a pharmacist and then work a bit up the ladder, open my own store, land an excellent entry level position with a PBM, pharmaceutical company, etc. I really do think it can open some doors, provide career flexibility and teach some valuable information. Not everyone wants to move to Rhode Island to work at CVS headquarters.

For my purposes getting an MBA for a very cheap price (typically a joint degree program at a rural state school) seems worth it. And if I don't get it now, I better hope someone else will pay for it in the future because the sale will have long ended. I'm learning things about business and gathering resources while I'm still in pharmacy school far and above what I would have had otherwise. Even after only two years interning at a pharmacy I understand pharmacy operations well enough to help me get value out of my degree and I feel better prepared for management. I can tell you from experience that there are many pharmacy managers/store owners out there who understand little to nothing about accounting, finance, marketing, etc. and they suffer because of it. And no not everyone in the pharmacy world has an MBA. At my school only 4% of students are doing the joint program keeping in mind it's probably only that high since students are trying to differentiate themselves more than ever now in this market.

I guess it depends on what cost you have to pay to get the MBA, who you're trying to impress with those three letters and whether you think the information learned will help you in the future. I think we should be very careful saying an MBA is always a bad or a good idea--it depends on a person's unique situation. For me it only cost 5k and zero lost wages since my degree will be finished before I graduate. For others, I could see where the cost wouldn't be worth it. In sum, my MBA gives me more career flexibility and in today's changing market that doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Hell maybe I'll work for Amazon some day.

You know, you have a solid plan and well thought out reasoning. It's hard to argue with that. Good luck!