Pharmacy In Germany

[NSU2008]

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Hi everyone. I'm working on a project on one of my rotations and was wondering if anyone had an idea of where I can find some information on the practice of retail pharmacy in Germany. I'm just looking for general info like:

Is it ruled by a couple large chain drug stores?
Do they have drive-thrus?
Who owns the stores?
What are their hours?
How satisfied are pharmacists in Germany with their careers?
What is their salary as compared to the national average?
How much vacation time do they get?
How does the public view the profession?
etc.....

I will be staying in the US to practice -- just a project I'm working on.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

I hope all the P4s here are doing well on their rotations -- just two months left, then I'll be DONE!

 

[Old Timer]

I can tell you from my experience, they have it great over there. All stores are privately owned. They rotate what store opens on Sunday. In a given geographic area, only one store opens on Sunday. They are usually open to between 6PM and 8PM. Almost everything is unit dose or unit use packaging. Very little counting.

I was in Germany for two weeks during the summer of 2006. I had the good fortune to to go for free. I had to chaperone 12 exchange students. I got a tour of one pharmacy in the tourist area. Then one of my kids got sick and I actually got to fill a prescription. I didn't type it in, I just got to put the label on.

The pharmacists were very friendly and mush less stressed than the American system. They fill about 80-100 orders per day. NO DRIVE THROUGH.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Hi everyone. I'm working on a project on one of my rotations and was wondering if anyone had an idea of where I can find some information on the practice of retail pharmacy in Germany. I'm just looking for general info like:

Is it ruled by a couple large chain drug stores?
Do they have drive-thrus?
Who owns the stores?
What are their hours?
How satisfied are pharmacists in Germany with their careers?
What is their salary as compared to the national average?
How much vacation time do they get?
How does the public view the profession?
etc.....

I will be staying in the US to practice -- just a project I'm working on.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

I hope all the P4s here are doing well on their rotations -- just two months left, then I'll be DONE!

My German friend's dad owns an apotheke. I might still have his email address. Just send me a PM.

By the way, my friend speaks wonderful English.

 

[Hels2007]

Hi everyone. I'm working on a project on one of my rotations and was wondering if anyone had an idea of where I can find some information on the practice of retail pharmacy in Germany. I'm just looking for general info like:

Is it ruled by a couple large chain drug stores?
Do they have drive-thrus?
Who owns the stores?
What are their hours?
How satisfied are pharmacists in Germany with their careers?
What is their salary as compared to the national average?
How much vacation time do they get?
How does the public view the profession?

I have done a rotation in Germany, I may be able to answer a lot of your questions, but they have to be specific ones. I am not up for writing essays.

1 & 3. Chains are currently illegal in Germany, every store has to be owned by a pharmacist, and no pharmacist may own more than 8 stores. There is a Dutch chain, though, trying to enter the market and lobbying for a change in the law, but we will see how it goes. Popular opinion is that it is only a matter of time before chains are allowed.

2. Vast majority of them do not. Some modern/recently build ones may have them - I know of a person who was planning to put one up, but as most pharmacies are in locations that do not allow for a drive-through that is not likely to happen. Space is at a premium in old European cities.

4. Hours vary depending on the land - different one may have different laws, some still mandate earlier closing times or no Sundays (there are certain "designated emergency pharmacies" that are open in the area on nights/weekends, and they rotate). Typically, half-day Saturdays, no Sundays and closing times vary 6pm to 9pm. Exceptions always possible. Pharmacies in train stations may be 24 hour, if I remember correctly, but again depends on the Bundesland.

5. Same as anywhere else - some love it, some hate it, majority are somewhere in between.

6. For a store owner/manager/senior pharmacist are comparable to US, for a regular pharmacist a bit less (the Doctorate degree is also not mandatory there, and it is a PhD-like degree, so people who have it earn more as well). Don't know about the national average, but if in US there is a perception of pharmacists as high earners, in Germany I haven't observed it.

7. Depends. Generally, about 4-5 weeks.

8. Hard to say. For one thing, patient's records are not kept on file (due to privacy laws), so the ability to counsel is crippled. On the other hand, there is a BTC class of drugs (Apothekerpflichtig), which allows for a lot of counseling. Plus, nothing can be sold truly OTC other than vitamins, so there is a significant interaction. Plus, there is a lot of compounding - both with chemicals and with herbals. Overall, I would say respected, on about the same level as in US (and who are we kidding, general public doesn't think much of retail pharmacists unless/until they have a pharmacist's intervention really save their sorry butt, so it all balances out to pretty neutral tone). Plus there are two different kinds of techs, and one of them can counsel - so pharmacists a lot of the time just supervise and answer more complex questions.

EDIT: Specifically, I was in Bavaria, if that matters. 🙂

 

[Requiem]

I
6. For a store owner/manager/senior pharmacist are comparable to US, for a regular pharmacist a bit less (the Doctorate degree is also not mandatory there, and it is a PhD-like degree, so people who have it earn more as well). Don't know about the national average, but if in US there is a perception of pharmacists as high earners, in Germany I haven't observed it.

Really informative reply, however their degree isn't a PhD esque degree. It's a "diploma" which is more or less the equivalent of a B.Sc. which requires 4-5 years of schooling.

We had a presentation from a current German pharmacy student on their curriculum/schooling.


They also do a TON more herbs/plants [they actually have to go pick plants and draw them and name them in latin/german... brutal] and less pharmacotherapy esque clinical lectures. Only 1 semester of pharmacology.

Edit: I see you were in Bavaria, I find that accent really hard to understand. Do you speak German fluently? I'm at a conversational level, I speak with a few Germans over Skype.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Edit: I see you were in Bavaria, I find that accent really hard to understand. Do you speak German fluently? I'm at a conversational level, I speak with a few Germans over Skype.

Ha! Are you talking about Badisch? It's a tough dialect. I have a degree in German, and it was still difficult to understand conversations.

 

[Requiem]

Ha! Are you talking about Badisch? It's a tough dialect. I have a degree in German, and it was still difficult to understand conversations.

As with anywhere I suppose, I find people who aren't from major cities have a larger accent and speak faster thus are more difficult to understand.

Yeah, all the issshhh's are accentuated. To go from Ick a la Berlin to ISSHHH a la Bayern is crazy. If you have skype you should add me, we can talk in german, ueber Pharmazeutik Schule 😛

 

[PharmDstudent]

As with anywhere I suppose, I find people who aren't from major cities have a larger accent and speak faster thus are more difficult to understand.

Yeah, all the issshhh's are accentuated. To go from Ick a la Berlin to ISSHHH a la Bayern is crazy. If you have skype you should add me, we can talk in german, ueber Pharmazeutik Schule 😛

I posted this before in the pre-pharm forum, but now, I think it's relevant here as well.
...
In regards to this language topic, a certain time in my life really stands out.
A few years ago, I had worked in southern Germany as an intern at a nursing home. While Germans are taught Hochdeutsch in school, which is their standard form of language, they speak a regional dialect in some areas of the country. Besides my obvious language barrier, German versus English, I also had a difficult time understanding the dialect Badisch from the Baden-Württemberg region. Unlike an accent, their dialects consist of word substitutions. For example, a Kirshe is a cherry in Hochdeutsch while a Kriesi is a cherry in Badisch, derived from the French word cerise. A fly is a Fliege in Hochdeutsch and a Mücke in Badisch.

"A campaign sticker, translated, 'We can do everything except speak standard German.' This is an allusion to the fact that Baden-Württemberg is one of the principal centres for innovation in Germany with many inhabitants having distinctive dialects."- Wiki
...

Ich wiss nicht was Skype ist, das kann ich untersuchen. Mein Deutsch ist nicht gut, aber werde ich probieren! Eine Minute vor, hatte ich mein Wörterbuch gefunden. Das ist sehr schön und phantastisch!

 

[Old Timer]

Well I'm jealous of both of you. I love Germany, but my German is nicht gut. My daughter speaks German well after 5 years of it in high school. I can't wait to go back. The trouble is if you speak German w/o the accent and they can tell your American, they answer you in English. When I went in 2003, the kids made me go to Burger King (Yuck), I went on the condition they would teach me to order in German. I get up to the counter and place my order in German and the guy behind the counter says, in English, "Do you want a Coke with that?"

If you speak German, keep it up, it's great to be able to speak another language....

 

[Hels2007]

Really informative reply, however their degree isn't a PhD esque degree. It's a "diploma" which is more or less the equivalent of a B.Sc. which requires 4-5 years of schooling.

I am sorry I did not post it as clear as I thought I did. What I meant, Doctor of Pharmacy is not a standard degree in Germany. You are correct that typical is diploma (usually 4 years of school plus two half-year internships, which may be either one retail, one hospital, or both retail). However, you can get Doctorate degree, but it's PhD-esque in that it is research-heavy, science-heavy, not at all like our clinical Pharm.D. here. I have met grand total of two people who went through it. 🙂

They also do a TON more herbs/plants [they actually have to go pick plants and draw them and name them in latin/german... brutal] and less pharmacotherapy esque clinical lectures. Only 1 semester of pharmacology.

Yep, in Ludwig-Maximilian's they have exam where they have a "mystery bag" with 4 plants and have to tell what they are by the end of the exam. It can be any combination of some 70 herbs they practice with during the semester. Pharmacy where I did my rotation did a lot of herbal tea compounding - we would literally get prescriptions with some 10 ingredients written on them, and then get all the jars (and there were probably over a hundred different herbal bulk jars in stock), pour stuff in required proportions into a paper bag, shake it up, package and dispense. 🙂

Their curriculum is also very heavy on the chemistry. A lot more of medchem and also analytical chemistry. I had a tour of labs - a lot of quality assurance labs, etc - nothing like we had. And their compounding is more fun. Making perfectly edible chocolate-covered hazelnuts - I would rather do that than make fake vaginal suppositories. 😛

Edit: I see you were in Bavaria, I find that accent really hard to understand. Do you speak German fluently? I'm at a conversational level, I speak with a few Germans over Skype.

You think Bavarians are bad, try Tiroleans. I can barely understand their accent when they speak English, let alone German (though Südtirol is a little better - at least, I attended a play performed in local dialect and I could make out about half of it). I asked for Hochdeutsch. As far as level, it varies depending on how long it has been since I last spoke German. I can hold everyday conversation, discuss weather/life events/laws/practice, however, I did not trust myself when people would describe their symptoms. I am now working in a heavily Hispanic area, and I do not trust my Spanish for that (though I can explain people how to take their meds, what basic side effects to expect, etc, answer simple questions - though my Spanish is worse than my German).

 

[Old Timer]

Yep, in Ludwig-Maximilian's they have exam where they have a "mystery bag" with 4 plants and have to tell what they are by the end of the exam. It can be any combination of some 70 herbs they practice with during the semester. Pharmacy where I did my rotation did a lot of herbal tea compounding - we would literally get prescriptions with some 10 ingredients written on them, and then get all the jars (and there were probably over a hundred different herbal bulk jars in stock), pour stuff in required proportions into a paper bag, shake it up, package and dispense. 🙂

That was standard in US Pharmacy Schools in the 50's & 60's (before even my time) and the course was called Pharmacognosy. The final was a tray of plants and you had to identify the plants and the drugs derived therefrom, etc...

 

[Requiem]

Hels, do you have Skype?

and to PharmDStudent, it's at www.skype.com, you simply register an account and download the program then it allows you to telephone people anywhere in the world for free. You simply speak with a headset or mic, and it works quite well. You add a person's name, a la MSN or AIM, and when they're online you can hit "Call" and there you go, that's it.

Let me know if you guys have it or are going to try it, PM if you have any problems or for my account name!

 

[PharmDstudent]

Hels, do you have Skype?

and to PharmDStudent, it's at www.skype.com, you simply register an account and download the program then it allows you to telephone people anywhere in the world for free. You simply speak with a headset or mic, and it works quite well. You add a person's name, a la MSN or AIM, and when they're online you can hit "Call" and there you go, that's it.

Let me know if you guys have it or are going to try it, PM if you have any problems or for my account name!

I'll let you know.

Don't be disappointed if I pass on skype though, because I'm not really fond of gadgits, ie headsets and what not. For example, I need to upgrade my cell phone, but I keep putting it off. My digital camera is broken, but I really don't care 😳- sometimes it's better just to see it in person.

Obwohl spreche ich Deutsch gern!

Deja vu: I just got off the phone with my mother, it was another long conversation, and we upgraded my cell. Nokia N75.

 

[Hels2007]

That was standard in US Pharmacy Schools in the 50's & 60's (before even my time) and the course was called Pharmacognosy. The final was a tray of plants and you had to identify the plants and the drugs derived therefrom, etc...

Well, they don't deal with full plants, the bag has chopped up dried stuff (whichever part is used medicinally). I know about pharmacognosy courses - and I really regret the herbals class being cancelled at my school right when I would be a P2 and able to take it. *weeps*

I signed up to teach herbals lectures for the Spring semester, let's see if I get the assignment... 🙂

 

[Hels2007]

Hels, do you have Skype?

Nah. Normal phone is better quality. 😛 But I have free long-distance in US/Canada and cheap international calls (unless they are to a really weird location, or to a cell phone... calling internationally to cell phones breaks any budget).

 

[NSU2008]

This is really great information that I could not have found on my own. Thanks to everyone for sharing your personal experiences. The idea behind the project was to look at retail pharmacy in other countries to see what challeneges they face. I had suspected that many of our "challenges" are "all-american", and are in part due to the majority of our retail pharmacies being run by a couple large corporations. Additionally, I was looking at how our individual drug plans/copays affect pharmacy. The information about herbals is very interesting as well.

Happy new year to everyone!