Pharmacy is a hot and growing profession... and I have the data to prove it!

[DOOM N GLOOM]

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The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

https://pharmacymanpower.com/archive/SummaryReport2018Q3.pdf

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

 

[ScienceLover97]

Unexpected, and really great numbers actually.

 

[PA_dud3]

Thank you Doom, very cool!

 

[VA77]

Lucinda Maine and AACP. What else is there to say. Still no data per state. Looks like they are cherry picking groups of states to make the numbers higher.

 

[Momus]

If I could get $1 for every floater I came across that complained... sometimes they only got 1-2 shifts a week, I'd be $10-15 richer. That's just one company in a small district.

 

[Eichhoernchen]

In my district, I am constantly asked to work extra shifts (outside of my 42 hours) because there is never enough coverage. Of course, I am being selfless, say no and hope they give those new people a chance. Lol

 

[Seriously Serious]

The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

https://pharmacymanpower.com/archive/SummaryReport2018Q3.pdf

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

Non-objective data, based on panelist views
Fewer responses than desired

Not sure how robust this "data" is lol

 

[Gombrich12]

Is that why the biggest employers of pharmacists are cutting wages and benefits?

 

[gwarm01]

Is that why the biggest employers of pharmacists are cutting wages and benefits?

That's just an exciting new initiative to improve the pharmacist's lifestyle by providing flexibility in scheduling!

 

[PharmtoCS]

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
More pharmacy schools and store hour cuts is higher pharmacist demand.

 

[sozetone]

That's just an exciting new initiative to improve the pharmacist's lifestyle by providing flexibility in scheduling!

That's AWESOME! And totally spot on. I'm rolling over here....

 

[sozetone]

The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

https://pharmacymanpower.com/archive/SummaryReport2018Q3.pdf

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

Question,

How do these statistics get put out in good faith? i mean, they cant be legitimate right? no possible way . Who's in charge of allowing this to go out to the public? Dumb...hey if its correct, we can get our salaries back and hours...awesome! sign on bonuses for everyone!

 

[ScienceLover97]

Interesting thing to consider. Why was the data insufficient and lacking to show statistics by state (for the first time in years) for the last two quarters. Why are the responses decreasing, and who is responding less?

 

[mentos]

If only they'd open enough schools to keep up with the demand!

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

Question,

How do these statistics get put out in good faith? i mean, they cant be legitimate right? no possible way . Who's in charge of allowing this to go out to the public? Dumb...hey if its correct, we can get our salaries back and hours...awesome! sign on bonuses for everyone!

Realistically, here is probably what’s happening:

These PDI metrics are based on surveys from pharmacists who hire (aka corporate retail pharmacists that manage the big chains). There would no doubt be a conflict of interest in these guys’ minds because it’s all about profit margins, bottom line, P&L or whatnot, so they obviously are biased towards saying there’s a demand for pharmacists to up enrollment in schools so they can keep slashing hours and wages knowing there is going to be a permanent supply of unemployed new grads to choose from.

Pharmacy schools cite said PDI metrics as reasons to open up new schools, recruit ignorant pre-pharms and in general pump sunshine about pharmacy.

Rinse and repeat.

Other reason (real talk this time) is that perhaps there is some seasonality to demand. Q2 is when all the new grads are looking the hardest for jobs and you’re getting 200 applications for 1 spot, while by Q3 the dust has settled a bit and you may be getting just 150 applications per spot. Relatively speaking, demand just went up because there are “less” applications. If this is the case, then I would expect Q4 numbers to go up as well.

I haven’t mentioned survey bias yet but regardless of how you spin it, it’s all a conspiracy theory IMO.

 

[farm4real]

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
More pharmacy schools and store hour cuts is higher pharmacist demand.

Will all due respect, you forgot:

32 hours is full time
Fewer techs is more fills

And of course:

‘ arbitrary metrics’ is GOD

 

[ImmunoglobulinE]

The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

https://pharmacymanpower.com/archive/SummaryReport2018Q3.pdf

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

Actually look here PDI under PDI by state, it states that the sample was much less than previous period. That right there is a red flag. All the participant that would report a terrible job market may have been deliberately excluded to hide how bad the job market is.Therefore that data is as far from statistical significance as it can get.

 

[sozetone]

Realistically, here is probably what’s happening:

These PDI metrics are based on surveys from pharmacists who hire (aka corporate retail pharmacists that manage the big chains). There would no doubt be a conflict of interest in these guys’ minds because it’s all about profit margins, bottom line, P&L or whatnot, so they obviously are biased towards saying there’s a demand for pharmacists to up enrollment in schools so they can keep slashing hours and wages knowing there is going to be a permanent supply of unemployed new grads to choose from.

Pharmacy schools cite said PDI metrics as reasons to open up new schools, recruit ignorant pre-pharms and in general pump sunshine about pharmacy.

Rinse and repeat.

Other reason (real talk this time) is that perhaps there is some seasonality to demand. Q2 is when all the new grads are looking the hardest for jobs and you’re getting 200 applications for 1 spot, while by Q3 the dust has settled a bit and you may be getting just 150 applications per spot. Relatively speaking, demand just went up because there are “less” applications. If this is the case, then I would expect Q4 numbers to go up as well.

I haven’t mentioned survey bias yet but regardless of how you spin it, it’s all a conspiracy theory IMO.

I could buy either theory, yeah. The numbers are not reflected in what i see in the real world today. It does not matter what those surveys say, this ship is sinking....

 

[sozetone]

If only they'd open enough schools to keep up with the demand!

LOL, that was good.

 

[ScienceLover97]

It's interesting how, according to this report, there are only two regions that are showing more supply than demand (scores less than 3.00): New England (at 2.92), and the South (at 2.91).

 

[sozetone]

I think we need to give it a few years and then this will become an epidemic. It has not had enough impact to warrant attention at this point. Although i would like to think the BOP in each state and federal NABP or APHA , whatever, has smarts enough to understand whats happening. So why don't they do anything about it? Or post articles recognizing the problem in their magazines or online? I feel like they are simply cashing in. So why do nothing when you know something is wrong? When you cant answer a question like this .... 9 out of 10 times the answer is MONEY $$$$...

 

[owlegrad]

Because BOPs exist to protect the public from us, not to help pharmacists in any way.

Why is this hard for people to understand?

 

[sozetone]

Because BOPs exist to protect the public from us, not to help pharmacists in any way.

Why is this hard for people to understand?

Not hard to understand man, so that would explain why they dont mind supporting big business by upping the tech ratios i suppose. They really dont have our best interest in mind.

 

[PA_dud3]

Not hard to understand man, so that would explain why they dont mind supporting big business by upping the tech ratios i suppose. They really dont have our best interest in mind.

They're not designed to. They just have to license us and make sure we don't kill people.

 

[lord999]

None of the pharmacy organizations have good employment data. NACDS and JC have better data and the internal NACDS are driving a recommendation for higher productivity per dollar targets. In other words, pay less and work them harder and get rid of your low productive workers through vitality curve statistical management.

 

[sozetone]

They're not designed to. They just have to license us and make sure we don't kill people.

Yeah, we established that thanks.

 

[Pharmd77:)]

The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

That's great! Why are several dozen classmates I know graduating a couple years ago still having trouble finding a job anywhere?? Also, these chains that are buying other stores, (i.e. Walgreens buying rite aid and Fred's) are merging or laying off thousands of pharmacists ... I wonder if those layoffs are included in the PDI number?

 

[owlegrad]

Not hard to understand man, so that would explain why they dont mind supporting big business by upping the tech ratios i suppose. They really dont have our best interest in mind.

So you went to the BOP meeting where they discussed the issue of increasing tech ratios and spoke against it? You have applied to be in your states BOP?

Or you just like to complain that they aren’t doing their job the way you see it?

Besides, I will take having more tech help over less tech help any day. Get rid of that ratio altogether IMO.

 

[Momus]

That's great! Why are several dozen classmates I know graduating a couple years ago still having trouble finding a job anywhere?? Also, these chains that are buying other stores, (i.e. Walgreens buying rite aid and Fred's) are merging or laying off thousands of pharmacists ... I wonder if those layoffs are included in the PDI number?

Why aren't you up to date to the current news? 😵?

 

[Pharmd77:)]

Why aren't you up to date to the current news? 😵?

Cause I work in pharmacy. No time for news. Just non-stop slavery.

 

[DrVader]

The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

https://pharmacymanpower.com/archive/SummaryReport2018Q3.pdf

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

Straight from the ministry of truth.

 

[babybull]

This is not even surprising. The number of job openings in general in the USA is at a record high. Demand is expected to have increased in this hot job market. The question is how bad will it get during the next downturn.

 

[beautifulrobot]

I think we need to give it a few years and then this will become an epidemic. It has not had enough impact to warrant attention at this point.

Anecdotally (and there might actually be some studies out there but I am too lazy to look it up right now), the general public's perception of pharmacists is that we are 1) overpaid and 2) annoying gatekeepers. There are very few consumers of pharmacy services who actually understand and appreciate what we do, and for the most part would rather not have to deal with us. Folks already feel that it is a burden that they have to take any medications, but now they also have to worry about the pharmacist fussing over the prescription and making it more time-consuming for them to access their medications.

That's all to say, I wouldn't bet on getting any sympathy from the general public (or from the politicians that represent the general public) any time soon. Several people (or at least a few high profile people) will have to die before any kind of intervention is made, and those interventions may not be what you're hoping for.

 

[Momus]

This is not even surprising. The number of job openings in general in the USA is at a record high. You would expect demand to have increased in this hot job market. The question is how bad will it get during the next downturn.

Someone failed to read between the lines...

 

[babybull]

Someone failed to read between the lines...

Someone failed to read between the lines...

And i wasnt being sarcastic by suggesting the current state of the economy as a whole probably has an influence on those numbers. did you know, for the first time in US history since this data has been available, job openings outnumber job seekers? we also have the lowest unemployment rate in decades. i can tell you that the company i work for in southern california is on a hiring spree, but i wouldnt want to say what company that is because it would be terrible to work with SDNers hahahaha

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

And i wasnt being sarcastic by suggesting the current state of the economy as a whole probably has an influence on those numbers. did you know, for the first time in US history since this data has been available, job openings outnumber job seekers? we also have the lowest unemployment rate in decades. i can tell you that the company i work for in southern california is on a hiring spree, but i wouldnt want to say what company that is because it would be terrible to work with you guys hahahaha

Sounds like PA’s at MedImpact. Am I wrong?

 

[babybull]

Sounds like PA’s at MedImpact. Am I wrong?

you might or might not be wrong lol! but yes lets use medimpact as an example of a company that has been growing and hiring many rphs recently.

my current circumstances dont necessarily reflect my post history so any attempt to use my post history to figure out which company i work for would be futile lmao

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

you might or might not be wrong lol! but yes lets use medimpact as an example of a company that has been growing and hiring many rphs recently.

my current circumstances dont necessarily reflect my post history so any attempt to use my post history to figure out which company i work for would be futile lmao

Sounds like someone that’s guilty. Don’t worry, I won’t press the issue any further. I tease hard, that I’ll admit 🙂

 

[Momus]

And i wasnt being sarcastic by suggesting the current state of the economy as a whole probably has an influence on those numbers. did you know, for the first time in US history since this data has been available, job openings outnumber job seekers? we also have the lowest unemployment rate in decades. i can tell you that the company i work for in southern california is on a hiring spree, but i wouldnt want to say what company that is because it would be terrible to work with SDNers hahahaha

Wouldn't call my self DIY investor if I don't know unemployment rate lmao. Overall economy doesn't affect pharmacy, no one is opening 50 stores/hospital per day anymore. Slow expansion is due to aging and normal population growth.

I don't wanna work for pbm/mail order, low pay. They are easy sit down jobs I admit. I had a part time floater in SD just quit for PA pharmacist coz she couldn't get full time hours in retail after floating for 1.5 yrs. The only company I'd switch at this point is UC systems. Getting 75%, 100% pension after 30 yr, 40 yrs of service is nuts.

 

[babybull]

Wouldn't call my self DIY investor if I don't know unemployment rate lmao. Overall economy doesn't affect pharmacy, no one is opening 50 stores/hospital per day anymore. Slow expansion is due to aging and normal population growth.

I don't wanna work for pbm/mail order, low pay. They are easy sit down jobs I admit. I had a part time floater in SD just quit for PA pharmacist coz she couldn't get full time hours in retail after floating for 1.5 yrs. The only company I'd switch at this point is UC systems. Getting 75%, 100% pension after 30 yr, 40 yrs of service is nuts.

i work at home as a pharmacist. pay is 120k a year. i wouldnt trade it for a hospital job, unless it was for one at a public hospital in san francisco that is... where they gross 150-200k per year

 

[ImmunoglobulinE]

i work at home as a pharmacist. pay is 120k a year. i wouldnt trade it for a hospital job, unless it was for one at a public hospital in san francisco that is... where they gross 150-200k per year

If I get a gig like that, I'll be living in another state entirely to cut down the cost of living significantly

 

[sozetone]

And i wasnt being sarcastic by suggesting the current state of the economy as a whole probably has an influence on those numbers. did you know, for the first time in US history since this data has been available, job openings outnumber job seekers? we also have the lowest unemployment rate in decades. i can tell you that the company i work for in southern california is on a hiring spree, but i wouldnt want to say what company that is because it would be terrible to work with SDNers hahahaha

Of course we have the lowest unemployment rate in history. Thats what happens when your entire country and economy take a high paying, full time job and slash it into 2 or 3 VERY low paying, part time jobs to avoid paying benefits!! Most people are working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet now. yeah were doing great huh?

 

[sozetone]

So you went to the BOP meeting where they discussed the issue of increasing tech ratios and spoke against it? You have applied to be in your states BOP?

Or you just like to complain that they aren’t doing their job the way you see it?

Besides, I will take having more tech help over less tech help any day. Get rid of that ratio altogether IMO.

I just moved to CO and have not had a chance to get to a BOP meeting, Also the rules were just changed a year ago. So give me a chance before assuming i am not supporting the profession. k?

 

[owlegrad]

I just moved to CO and have not had a chance to get to a BOP meeting, Also the rules were just changed a year ago. So give me a chance before assuming i am not supporting the profession. k?

Yes I am sure you are going to get right on that. Power on brother!

 

[babybull]

Of course we have the lowest unemployment rate in history. Thats what happens when your entire country and economy take a high paying, full time job and slash it into 2 or 3 VERY low paying, part time jobs to avoid paying benefits!! Most people are working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet now. yeah were doing great huh?

yeah, we're Great Again.

 

[samven582]

The new PDIs have been released and boy, oh boy are you naysayers about the profession wrong.

https://pharmacymanpower.com/archive/SummaryReport2018Q3.pdf

The population-adjusted PDIs for Q3 2018 are:
generalist/staff: 3.13
managers: 3.28
specialized pharmacists: 3.13

This compared to Q2 2018 data:
generalist/staff: 2.86
managers: 2.92
specialized pharmacists: 3.14

Turns out anyone with a pulse and can borrow $200k+ in loans knew what they were doing all along. At this rate, overall PDI will be 5.00 by Q2 2020!

 

[VA77]

Reduce your residencies folks. Its the best power you have on limiting new schools and class sizes.

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

Reduce your residencies folks. Its the best power you have on limiting new schools and class sizes.

Might I suggest a radical way to improve the quality of students getting into schools: change the admissions interview questions in two ways.

1. Ask them what they think a pharmacist does.

2. Immediately disqualify candidates if they say “I want to help people” when you ask “why pharmacy?”