Pharmacy to Medicine...

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pharmacist.throwaway

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  • Hospital pharmacist here graduated 2010, worked for 10 years in this setting. Early to mid 30s.
  • Was never really passionate about pharmacy, medicine was what I wanted to do, but life happened and ended up in pharmacy.
  • contemplated going to medicine right after pharmacy school but figured I’ll give it a shot at “clinical pharmacy”. Worked my way to an ICU pharmacist, rounding, precepting and the whole nine yards - been doing this particular role for 6 years now. Nop, not satisfied. The medicine itch is still there, more so now because I understand how much of a knowledge gap and consequently limited scope we have.
  • started saving to potentially go back to school, and slowly took Prereqs. Mcats. Applied. Accepted.
  • Net worth (cash, savings etc come close to half of what a 10 yrs rph should be worth if they saved half their salary. You know the numbers 🙂.
  • thankfully no debt other than mortgage. Can certainly carry my family through next 10 yrs financially.
  • My job is easy for sure, no stress and pays well...no complaints on that side...just dont feel fulfilled enough doing this.
  • only thing that gives me pause is the opportunity cost. Thoughts? Abandon medicine? Do what then? Can’t see myself doing pgy1 or pgy2....not worth for me.
 
As long as you worked out all the numbers to financially support your family throughout your time in school. If you have a passion for it, then go for it but realize the other potential risks you'll face when you're done with med school. If you include medschool + residency, you'd be wasting 7-10 years until you can practice as an attending. Also you have to take into account whether you land the residency of your choice or end up in a specialty you don't enjoy.
If you can accept those risks and worked out all the numbers, I'd say go for it. YOLO
 
    • Hospital pharmacist here graduated 2010, worked for 10 years in this setting. Early to mid 30s.
    • Was never really passionate about pharmacy, medicine was what I wanted to do, but life happened and ended up in pharmacy.
    • contemplated going to medicine right after pharmacy school but figured I’ll give it a shot at “clinical pharmacy”. Worked my way to an ICU pharmacist, rounding, precepting and the whole nine yards - been doing this particular role for 6 years now. Nop, not satisfied. The medicine itch is still there, more so now because I understand how much of a knowledge gap and consequently limited scope we have.
    • started saving to potentially go back to school, and slowly took Prereqs. Mcats. Applied. Accepted.
    • Net worth (cash, savings etc come close to half of what a 10 yrs rph should be worth if they saved half their salary. You know the numbers 🙂.
    • thankfully no debt other than mortgage. Can certainly carry my family through next 10 yrs financially.
    • My job is easy for sure, no stress and pays well...no complaints on that side...just dont feel fulfilled enough doing this.
    • only thing that gives me pause is the opportunity cost. Thoughts? Abandon medicine? Do what then? Can’t see myself doing pgy1 or pgy2....not worth for me.
    [*][*]
    You will be financially OK when you are done with residency it seems..but also 40+ y.o...working to 65+ may not be a problem..a lot of guys work past that...esp if you can wrangle part time...I'm not really up on it..but it seems that at least a few specialties are being "taken over?" by PA's and NP's...Talk to olde Doc's and see what they say...BTW..I started Phcy around 30 ish (BS not PHARMD fortunately) ...But had a fun and challenging job before and also a lot of part time......Full time from 30? probably not..
 
Have you considered PA school rather than full blown med school? That cuts the education time to 2 years and gets you into the medical side of things faster

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Have you considered PA school rather than full blown med school? That cuts the education time to 2 years and gets you into the medical side of things faster

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Yes but that does seem somewhat of a step back. Many PA's i talk to do wish they had just done MD, besides, from what I read here their job market will not be much different than what ours is, in a few years.
 
That's amazing that you are constantly wanting to learn and achieve more! Once I got done with pharmacy school, I wanted to start working and get as far away from academia as possible. Even if you are financially well off and your family is OK with your decision, I would be hesitant to do it. Med school will be rigorous, expensive, and stressful. Is that something you and your family will endure? Let's say after a few yours you want to stop, will your previous job be available still? From my perspective, be happy with what you have-- it isn't always greener on the other side. Good luck.
 
That's amazing that you are constantly wanting to learn and achieve more! Once I got done with pharmacy school, I wanted to start working and get as far away from academia as possible. Even if you are financially well off and your family is OK with your decision, I would be hesitant to do it. Med school will be rigorous, expensive, and stressful. Is that something you and your family will endure? Let's say after a few yours you want to stop, will your previous job be available still? From my perspective, be happy with what you have-- it isn't always greener on the other side. Good luck.

I totally agree with you. Graduated mid 2010s, also had the medicine itch but started working hospital Pharmacy and in various roles including: chemo, informatics, clinical, independent retail, etc.

I understand that in the clinical role I don’t have the same job as a doctor and that I know less but this doesn’t necessarily make me feel inadequate. I know my worth and I have more time that a doctor in reviewing other things that they may not have time for.

Pharmacy is a much more flexible career in that you can change careers wildly without any training. It also doesn’t consume your life, meaning that once I’m done my shift then I’m able to go home, relax, spend time with family, work on my hobbies and maybe even start a side business, ex one of the hospital pharmacists i work with is a part time real estate, he maintains his hospital job part time for the benefits. I taught myself programming during my weekday evenings after work, etc.

To be honest I hardly see any MDs have time for that. They are most likely extremely absorbed in their careers which are very demanding and also financially rewarding so there’s no need for them to think outside the box. Its also likely they are this way due to their higher age when finishing residency etc. They feel that they need to “make up” the time and money.

To me i think time is your most precious asset, if you’re willing to spend the next 7-10 years in a stressed out state because of the rewards in the end then you should follow your heart.

If you’re going for medicine for other reasons (financial, prestige, etc) then I don’t recommend it. Also keep in mind your age when applying for residency, is there ageism when it comes to applying for certain specialties ? (I’m not sure, just asking) but maybe you should ask around.

Good luck and let us know what you choose 🙂
 
It's not going to financially work out for you, it almost never does. Unless you can break $320k a year and work 25 years, you will never break out even comparatively than if you stayed. On the other hand, there is nothing like the practice of medicine, so you should do it if you see yourself enjoying the work, because that is the only reward that's tangible after all the sacrifices that you and your family must go through.
 
@Atropia How far along in medical school are you? I currently work a 7 on 7 off evening shift position and have been dosing so for the past 8-9 years of my 10 yr pharmacy practice. On top of that I have had 1 and for the last 3 yrs, two prn positions each of which has demanded a commitment of 1-2 shifts on my week off. As a result, every 2 weeks I have maybe 2-3 days off. Since my full time job is 7/7 off, it means I have to work long hours which means I am gone 13 hrs a day. My wife has been very understanding through this and knows that medical school may even be tougher. She jokes that being married to a health care personnel means being a single mother but she gets to stay home and therefore mostly content with how life has turned out for us. I have missed numerous birthdays, events parties etc but I am okay with that. I do devote 100% of time to family when I am home so to say, dont have many hobbies for myself. I am okay with that. In which way do you feel you and your wife underestimated the strain medical school will have? Would you be willing to share?
 
It's not going to financially work out for you, it almost never does. Unless you can break $320k a year and work 25 years, you will never break out even comparatively than if you stayed. On the other hand, there is nothing like the practice of medicine, so you should do it if you see yourself enjoying the work, because that is the only reward that's tangible after all the sacrifices that you and your family must go through.

Thats the gamble right there isnt it my friend?! No one really knows until they try it ! and you are exactly right with your numbers there, 25 yrs at 300k !
 
Thats the gamble right there isnt it my friend?! No one really knows until they try it ! and you are exactly right with your numbers there, 25 yrs at 300k !

It's no gamble, it's a fairly certain economic loss unless you like the work that much and I doubt the market structure for medicine will not become even harder to work as physicians are even more locked in than we are. The passion for the labor not something that's a tangible, but I know quite a number of us who have gone back because they supposedly like the work that much. Most really do and I am happy for them, a few do not and they only have themselves to blame.
 
Personally, I think you put yourself in a fabulous position do achieve your goal. Kudos to you!

I've had several friends go back to school, for those who truly desired medicine, clinical pharmacy was a poor substitute.

Time is your most precious commodity, so while I wouldn't take this decision lightly, I still feel like 25 years in a career that you love is plenty of time to be fulfilled and hopefully make a difference. Alternatvely, 25 more years is definitely too long to be in a career that you know doesn't work.

I believe the economics will work itself out. It did for me (went to graduate school as opposed to medical school), and I hope the same is true for you, should you continue this path. One more thought regarding finances: I suspect you will likely give some consideration to earning potential when you choose a speciality.

Good luck.
 
It's no gamble, it's a fairly certain economic loss unless you like the work that much and I doubt the market structure for medicine will not become even harder to work as physicians are even more locked in than we are. The passion for the labor not something that's a tangible, but I know quite a number of us who have gone back because they supposedly like the work that much. Most really do and I am happy for them, a few do not and they only have themselves to blame.

I was responding to the second half of your comment " Most really do and I am happy for them, a few do not and they only have themselves to blame." I do not think that one knows for sure about anything until they experience it themselves and that applies to the practice of medicine as well. Hence a bit of a gamble.

But as far as economics go, I would venture to say that the question is also up in the air. No one truly knows. As an example, compared to my salary in 2010, I earn the same amount when adjusted for inflation, almost to the dollar in 2019! This however was possible by picking up several extra shifts and every year, I have worked more than the last. I have no more extra days left to work, and therefore I am most likely capped and will probably fall behind with inflation in the not so distant future. If you look at some old threads here on medscape you will see that everyone states how bad the future is going to be for physicians. However, medscape physician compensation shows that in 2011 family practice physician on avg made, 150 k. In 2019, the report shows about 230 K. My point being that while I do believe that financially, going to medical school is not a great idea....no one can be completely certain about the future:happy: !
 
I don't know how big of a family man you are nor do I know how involved you want to be in your children(s) lives but taking this route will put a strain with how much time you can dedicate to your family. Studying through medschool, traveling all the times during your rotation years, and your residency schedule will create barriers between you and your family.
In my opinion, It's one thing to follow your passion but its another to chase your passion after starting a family for your own self interests... You may end up as a doctor of whatever specialty you wanted by the time you are in your early/mid 40s but what if that ends up costing your relationship with your family? Would that all be worth it?
 
I would not. Married to a md. Residency was a bitch and we have no kids. Now just one and schedule is all over the place. Hard to balance and get time together, especially if spouse works. I've even heard the words "I should have done pharmacy" .... it's a stressful gig

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Not to be a jerk, but I somewhat question the validity of all the info you gave us. Unless the ICU docs you work with are complete dickheads, you get to play plenty role in patient care/outcomes and many times get to suggest/implement patient treatment plans. So I guess I'm just having a hard time seeing how that medicine itch isn't being scratched if you are an ICU pharmacist.
Aside from all that, you should probably be talking to the docs about whether you should go into medicine. I spoke with an ICU doc about medical school and the path he took and he said that he'd never do it again. He realized that by the time he was done with residency and his fellowship that half his life was gone and he was still spending ridiculous amounts of time at work. He also mentioned that, "I was diagnosing people with terminal diseases who were younger than me and that could just as easily happen to me."
 
10 -11 years of school with net zero income and about 250000$ in loans... I would rethink that for sure.. Unless you are just passionate about just being a doctor.
 
Just an opinion from another anonymous: go for it! Also, based on the residency you choose you’ll earn more than 300k yearly.
 
  • Hospital pharmacist here graduated 2010, worked for 10 years in this setting. Early to mid 30s.
  • Was never really passionate about pharmacy, medicine was what I wanted to do, but life happened and ended up in pharmacy.
  • contemplated going to medicine right after pharmacy school but figured I’ll give it a shot at “clinical pharmacy”. Worked my way to an ICU pharmacist, rounding, precepting and the whole nine yards - been doing this particular role for 6 years now. Nop, not satisfied. The medicine itch is still there, more so now because I understand how much of a knowledge gap and consequently limited scope we have.
  • started saving to potentially go back to school, and slowly took Prereqs. Mcats. Applied. Accepted.
  • Net worth (cash, savings etc come close to half of what a 10 yrs rph should be worth if they saved half their salary. You know the numbers 🙂.
  • thankfully no debt other than mortgage. Can certainly carry my family through next 10 yrs financially.
  • My job is easy for sure, no stress and pays well...no complaints on that side...just dont feel fulfilled enough doing this.
  • only thing that gives me pause is the opportunity cost. Thoughts? Abandon medicine? Do what then? Can’t see myself doing pgy1 or pgy2....not worth for me.
I say it is worth it if it makes you happy and your family is okay with it, and
You are in a good position due to not having any debt. PGY-1 and PGY-2 would not be worth it, and I am sure you know of residents still fighting for jobs. And I would not do PA at this point either, since PA is getting saturated in major cities. I would say go for medicine if this what will make you happy. Plus, you have an unusual income to pay off debt whether it is two years or five years. You could still work on holidays during the school curriculum to minimize the debt. I would do it and it looks like your family supports you on your decision. That is all that matters.
Weird thing is, I have too have that medicine itch, but I am a new grad and I want to get some pharmacy experience first.
 
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  • You will be financially OK when you are done with residency it seems..but also 40+ y.o...working to 65+ may not be a problem..a lot of guys work past that...esp if you can wrangle part time...I'm not really up on it..but it seems that at least a few specialties are being "taken over?" by PA's and NP's...Talk to olde Doc's and see what they say...BTW..I started Phcy around 30 ish (BS not PHARMD fortunately) ...But had a fun and challenging job before and also a lot of part time......Full time from 30? probably not..

I know a neurologist that is currently practicing even at 80 years old, part time.
 
Its financial suicide unless you can get a ROAD program in medicine. But if you feel such an urge and calling for it go for it, know at most you'll break out even at this point if you don't get a ROAD program, worse you're financially worse off but you'll get be a real doctor then. ROAD= radiology, ortho, anet,derm.

What exactly is are you itching at from an ICU standpoint? most teaching institution with a ICU pharmacist I seen and trained at are all very proactive and on deck. You do realize as a medical resident after rounds you're spending a significant amount of your day actually writing notes. I mean the road isn't always greener on the other side. Just google how much physician residents bitch that they don't get enough real patient interaction/involvement and mostly writing bs notes. I'm ok on that and will take the 1-2hr round and not have to then spent rest of 5-7hr a day writing notes, then have other responsibilities.
 
The worst case scenario is, you quit your pharmacist job, go back for med school for 4 years, residency & fellowship for another 4-5 years, come out realizing your specialty is fully automated by AI lol.
 
I was flaked out in a waiting room last week "waiting" and happened upon a "Medical Economics" magazine (which really isn't supposed to make it to customers)..Anyway..the doctors are crying the blues over workload..money..student loans..patients....burnout is a big one....keeping up..( apparently your basic MD is not keeping up very well...statistics included in article))...In addition M. E. is a LOT thinner than it used to be....Take Away...the grass may not be greener...YESTERDAY..I was talking to an electrician I know who was telling me about his expensive new house...down the street from the plumber dude....BTW they need staff...
 
Not going to lie. Here’s one truth. Once you choose the medicine route, you will never have time for your family. I’m not making this up. It takes years to finish school and residency. During those years, don’t expect to balance family life because it won’t happen. I know I may sound harsh, but don’t say that nobody warned you. Are you going into medicine for yourself and to serve your own personal satisfaction? Or are you doing this for your family? You need to think about this. If you were single, I would say go for it. But since you have family, you need to take that into serious consideration.
 
Why not just do PA? Less time, cheaper, make about the same amount or more than pharmacists.
 
  • Hospital pharmacist here graduated 2010, worked for 10 years in this setting. Early to mid 30s.
  • Was never really passionate about pharmacy, medicine was what I wanted to do, but life happened and ended up in pharmacy.
  • contemplated going to medicine right after pharmacy school but figured I’ll give it a shot at “clinical pharmacy”. Worked my way to an ICU pharmacist, rounding, precepting and the whole nine yards - been doing this particular role for 6 years now. Nop, not satisfied. The medicine itch is still there, more so now because I understand how much of a knowledge gap and consequently limited scope we have.
  • started saving to potentially go back to school, and slowly took Prereqs. Mcats. Applied. Accepted.
  • Net worth (cash, savings etc come close to half of what a 10 yrs rph should be worth if they saved half their salary. You know the numbers 🙂.
  • thankfully no debt other than mortgage. Can certainly carry my family through next 10 yrs financially.
  • My job is easy for sure, no stress and pays well...no complaints on that side...just dont feel fulfilled enough doing this.
  • only thing that gives me pause is the opportunity cost. Thoughts? Abandon medicine? Do what then? Can’t see myself doing pgy1 or pgy2....not worth for me.

To me, this seems insane. I couldn't imagine going through med school, medical residency hell and likely the long hours physicians work just to slightly increase your scope of practice. There are various healthcare systems in the country that have collaborative practice agreements broad enough that pharmacists are able to prescribe almost any medication. Another six figures of tuition, 8+ years of lost income to have a 20-year career as a physician. Very few people get to the end of their life and wish they had spent more time working. Have you considered volunteering as a means of finding more meaning in your work?

I considered going back to school for an alternative career after I finished my degree and started working as a pharmacist. I was almost sure that I wanted to switch because of how unfulfilled I was in my current position. But after doing A TON of research, job shadowing, getting second opinions, etc. I realized it wasn't the career I didn't like, but the job. I'm happily on my way to a much more fulfilling career that I'll enjoy and it doesn't take another six figures and more years of difficult education and lost income.

Financially, it's probably not worth it. Everyone on this thread is saying that, but let me quantify it for you using my financial/MBA knowledge. If I calculate the net present value of 30 years of a pharmacist's salary at $130k (IRR inflation-adjusted 6.8%) I get $1.420 million. If I calculate the net present value of going to medical school for 4 years at a cost of $200k (tuition, books, health insurance, can definitely vary) then making $60k for 4 years during residency, then making $200k a year as a gp for 22 years (IRR inflation-adjusted 6.8%) I get $1.405 million. Keep in mind you will be working incredibly hard throughout this entire process and much, much longer hours than you are now. This is time you could spend outside of work with friends/family doing things on your bucket list. You are basically not making any money off this endeavor and may even lose money depending on your specialty and a ton of different factors. You will definitely hemorrhage money on a pay per hour basis. Financially, you're unlikely to see any return on your investment, but it definitely varies.

I'm not saying don't do it. I just know from experience it's easy to catch "the bug." Scarcity makes things feel more desirable. If you feel like you're going to "miss out" on your opportunity to be a physician then you'll value it more. There's a reason airlines put "only two tickets left at this price point" next to the ticket price online. The grass is always greener on the other side. This is not a decision to be taken lightly and you need to do your own research and make a list of pros and cons and decide what's right for you.

Definitely don't give in to the sunk cost fallacy. Don't ever stick with a path just because you feel like you've invested too much. However, financially getting a new education when you've already obtained a lucrative one rarely makes sense.

I hope this helps. I went through the same thing. There are many people (if not everyone) that asks themselves if their career is right for them and if they should jump ship or stay. It's an important decision so I would recommend speaking with a career counselor. One of the best insights they often give is that you are often unhappy with your job, not your career. There is often a way to solve your problem that does not involve huge expenses and effort.
 
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I still have nightmares about the exams that I had to take in pharmacy school. I don't know how you are going to go back to college and slave your life week after week for a decade. If I were you I find a work from home position and just verify scripts for a hospital and find some hobbies you can do on your off time. Don't waste your life like this. Time is money.
 
OP : Must be great to be "plugged in" still (yet I am still using a pop culture reference)

Gotta get that purpose
 
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