PharmD to MD obstacles

[PharMed2016]

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I will be attending pharmacy school next year, but I am entertaining the thought about getting an MD/DO after I graduate directly from pharmacy school. My undergrad GPA is currently dismal, 3.19 sGPA and 3.39 cGPA, although after this semester my sGPA and cGPA will be much higher. I plan on taking a Kaplan Review course this coming spring for an MCAT that I will be taking this summer.

Anyway, I was wondering if someone can tell me some of the obstacles that I might face. How long will my MCAT scores be good for? How long will my undergraduate courses be good for? Can I still cite the research/clinical/volunteer/shadowing experiences?

Thank You,

 

[dezokitty]

So first thing is I want to say is that it's not the best idea using pharm school as a stepping stone to med school. That being said, I understand your feelings, since I did still think about med school when I first started pharm school, as did many other pharm students. Most pharmacy students decide ultimately not to go into medicine, however, considering the additional costs/debt, four more years of school (+ residency/fellowship), and the fact that a pharmacy job is quite nice (better hours, still good salary/benefits). There are indeed some obstacles for pharm students. The biggest one is your personal motivation for going into medicine. Given your odd career path, it's going to be very difficult to explain why you went into one health profession and then chose to switch to another. The very fact that you went into pharmacy first may be a turn off at some med schools. The biggest question you're going to have to answer is "why?" With that in mind, why are you still considering medicine at this point in time?

To address the other questions: I applied to allopathic schools, so I'm not completely sure if DO is the same... But for the MCAT, it differs from school to school how long MCAT scores are good for. At most allopathic schools, the MCAT scores are good for 3 years (but you'll also have to consider whether that means 3 years from application or matriculation). I believe you can still use your undergrad courses/experiences. They don't really expire or anything, from what I can tell.

 

[PharMed2016]

So first thing is I want to say is that it's not the best idea using pharm school as a stepping stone to med school. That being said, I understand your feelings, since I did still think about med school when I first started pharm school, as did many other pharm students. Most pharmacy students decide ultimately not to go into medicine, however, considering the additional costs/debt, four more years of school (+ residency/fellowship), and the fact that a pharmacy job is quite nice (better hours, still good salary/benefits). There are indeed some obstacles for pharm students. The biggest one is your personal motivation for going into medicine. Given your odd career path, it's going to be very difficult to explain why you went into one health profession and then chose to switch to another. The very fact that you went into pharmacy first may be a turn off at some med schools. The biggest question you're going to have to answer is "why?" With that in mind, why are you still considering medicine at this point in time?

To address the other questions: I applied to allopathic schools, so I'm not completely sure if DO is the same... But for the MCAT, it differs from school to school how long MCAT scores are good for. At most allopathic schools, the MCAT scores are good for 3 years (but you'll also have to consider whether that means 3 years from application or matriculation). I believe you can still use your undergrad courses/experiences. They don't really expire or anything, from what I can tell.

Thanks for your answers, now to answer your questions on "Why?".

The reason I have choosen pharmacy isn't because I am not passionate about medicine/healthcare but rather personal considerations (family) and if you look above, my undergraduate is exactly outstanding (3.4 cGPA with a 3.19 sGPA) due to perhaps the undergraduate program which I was in... some programs are harder than others (whether people admit it) and this will hopefully be reflected on my MCAT.

I don't have the luxury of waiting around for couple of years. My family depends on my decision since they have invested nearly everything in me and will count on me to support them (yes support them) sooner rather than later (fyi- asian).

There is a saying: "Duty is heavier than a mountain."

 

[njbmd]

I will be attending pharmacy school next year, but I am entertaining the thought about getting an MD/DO after I graduate directly from pharmacy school. My undergrad GPA is currently dismal, 3.19 sGPA and 3.39 cGPA, although after this semester my sGPA and cGPA will be much higher. I plan on taking a Kaplan Review course this coming spring for an MCAT that I will be taking this summer.

Anyway, I was wondering if someone can tell me some of the obstacles that I might face. How long will my MCAT scores be good for? How long will my undergraduate courses be good for? Can I still cite the research/clinical/volunteer/shadowing experiences?

Thank You,

A couple of things to think about:

• Your GPA is very, very low for medical school. My guess is that it's going to take more than one semester to get you even remotely close to being competitive.
• You need to make sure that you are thoroughly prepared for the MCAT before you take it. With a low GPA, you may not be as prepared as you would like to believe. The Kaplan course may not be enough.
• Do a spread-sheet or use one of the online calculators and figure out how many hours of excellent coursework you need to get yourself into a competitive uGPA for medical school.

Those are your main obstacles. Add to the above that you will likely be asked to explain why you are not entering the pharmacy profession. Formulate some type of answer for this question as it is likely to come up at some point.

Age of MCAT is variable from school to school but most schools will not accept MCAT scores older than 3 years and many don't want scores that are older than 2 years. You need to query the schools that you are interested in applying to in terms of age of MCAT scores.

Unless you are not planning on applying for Fall of 2010, then you should not take the MCAT until the spring of the year that you plan to apply rather than having to do a re-take. My guess is that you won't be competitive with your GPA for Fall of 2010. If you do well on your earlier and then drop on the re-take because your scores expired (they don't go away), you may tank your chances. Because your uGPA is going to be low (there is only so much that you can do to raise it), you can't afford to have the MCAT hand you up. Take this exam when you are thoroughly prepared and toward the end of your significant "damage-control" work.

 

[PharMed2016]

A couple of things to think about:

• Your GPA is very, very low for medical school. My guess is that it's going to take more than one semester to get you even remotely close to being competitive.
• You need to make sure that you are thoroughly prepared for the MCAT before you take it. With a low GPA, you may not be as prepared as you would like to believe. The Kaplan course may not be enough.
• Do a spread-sheet or use one of the online calculators and figure out how many hours of excellent coursework you need to get yourself into a competitive uGPA for medical school.

Those are your main obstacles. Add to the above that you will likely be asked to explain why you are not entering the pharmacy profession. Formulate some type of answer for this question as it is likely to come up at some point.

Age of MCAT is variable from school to school but most schools will not accept MCAT scores older than 3 years and many don't want scores that are older than 2 years. You need to query the schools that you are interested in applying to in terms of age of MCAT scores.

Unless you are not planning on applying for Fall of 2010, then you should not take the MCAT until the spring of the year that you plan to apply rather than having to do a re-take. My guess is that you won't be competitive with your GPA for Fall of 2010. If you do well on your earlier and then drop on the re-take because your scores expired (they don't go away), you may tank your chances. Because your uGPA is going to be low (there is only so much that you can do to raise it), you can't afford to have the MCAT hand you up. Take this exam when you are thoroughly prepared and toward the end of your significant "damage-control" work.

Thank you very much for your advice, it is much appreciated. I am very well aware of my uGPA is keeping me from medical school. It's actually the top reason, I have decided to put off medical school until I have finished my Pharm.D.

As for taking the MCATs, you've made a very good point about taking it later on and I will definitely call some medical schools to see what their views are on the MCATs.

 

[dezokitty]

Thanks for your answers, now to answer your questions on "Why?".

The reason I have choosen pharmacy isn't because I am not passionate about medicine/healthcare but rather personal considerations (family) and if you look above, my undergraduate is exactly outstanding (3.4 cGPA with a 3.19 sGPA) due to perhaps the undergraduate program which I was in... some programs are harder than others (whether people admit it) and this will hopefully be reflected on my MCAT.

I don't have the luxury of waiting around for couple of years. My family depends on my decision since they have invested nearly everything in me and will count on me to support them (yes support them) sooner rather than later (fyi- asian).

There is a saying: "Duty is heavier than a mountain."

Being Asian, I do understand where you're coming from in terms of family pressures. On the other hand, I hate to say this, but this is really a poor reason for going into either pharmacy school or medical school. If you don't enjoy healthcare, you really shouldn't be a part of either profession. Furthermore, when it comes to an interview for a medical school, that sort of answer is going to get you automatically rejected. I highly encourage you to reconsider your life goals. Going into pharmacy and then medicine is a pretty bad career path in the first place. First of all, if your GPA is not great to begin with, pharmacy school will NOT bring it up for you. Secondly, the commitment in terms of time, work, and money is tremendous. If your family is saving up to pay for school, the financial demand from the combination of pharmacy school AND medical school is going to be enormous. Finally, the very fact that you went to pharmacy school is going to be detrimental to your application. Combine that with your lower GPA, and it's going to be incredibly difficult to make it into a medical school even if you have everything else you need (EC's, LOR's, PS). I am not saying that these obstacles are insurmountable, but you really need to have the drive to overcome them. If your motivation is solely out of filial duty, that is not enough. And if, by chance, you do make it through all these years of hard work and debt, if you don't have a passion for what you're doing, you're going to end up miserable.

 

[J ROD]

Most med schools do not like pharm before med.

I asked my state med school before I went because I want a MD/PharmD. There is no joint degree so I created my own (sort of).

They told me if would not hurt me and may help me a little. I figured I could be 1/2 way through my PharmD by the time I was ready to apply to med school. So, why not get myself the extra knowledge and backup degree.

My MCAT is low (27) [average 28] but I have a 3.8 overall and a 3.9+ in pharm school. So, they even out. Then, I have been stock piling shadowing and volunteering.

This is the gravy of top of the potatoes. I highly recommend getting in there and building up a well-rounded app.

Why? I want more patient contact and want to bring my pharmaceutical knowledge with me to help treat my patients. Physicians are the primary diagnostics and pharmacists are the drug experts. To me, it may be over the top but I want both knowledge sets. They go well together I think.

Plus, I want my name on my white coat to wrap around to my back, lol!!!

 

[PharMed2016]

Being Asian, I do understand where you're coming from in terms of family pressures. On the other hand, I hate to say this, but this is really a poor reason for going into either pharmacy school or medical school. If you don't enjoy healthcare, you really shouldn't be a part of either profession. Furthermore, when it comes to an interview for a medical school, that sort of answer is going to get you automatically rejected. I highly encourage you to reconsider your life goals. Going into pharmacy and then medicine is a pretty bad career path in the first place. First of all, if your GPA is not great to begin with, pharmacy school will NOT bring it up for you. Secondly, the commitment in terms of time, work, and money is tremendous. If your family is saving up to pay for school, the financial demand from the combination of pharmacy school AND medical school is going to be enormous. Finally, the very fact that you went to pharmacy school is going to be detrimental to your application. Combine that with your lower GPA, and it's going to be incredibly difficult to make it into a medical school even if you have everything else you need (EC's, LOR's, PS). I am not saying that these obstacles are insurmountable, but you really need to have the drive to overcome them. If your motivation is solely out of filial duty, that is not enough. And if, by chance, you do make it through all these years of hard work and debt, if you don't have a passion for what you're doing, you're going to end up miserable.

Please read my post more thoroughly. I never stated that I did not have a passion for healthcare/medicine and never stated that I don't care for pharmacy. It's just pharmacy is the best choice for me right now both financially and personally. If I didn't enjoy healthcare, there are a whole host of professions I could be choosing. Also, things are more complicated than that of which is stated on the forum. So please don't judge... there is always another side of the story that isn't stated.

As for my parents paying for my education... they will not be paying for my pharmacy education (are yours? asian parents are either well off or not so well off- mine not so) and they won't be paying for my medical education (which if I am sooo lucky... I will be able to pay working part-time as a pharmacist). They don't make alot of money but what money they do have... they have invested it in my family and me to better our future. It's the least I can do is to make sure that I am able to take care of them doing something that I enjoy. Medicine if you read my previous post... is a want... something to be more than I am currently allowing myself to be.

I am also very well aware that alot of medical schools will not look favorly or are neutral with applicants with PharmDs. With that being said... I still intend to pursue this path to the best of my abilities. Who knows if I will be a great physcian... but I know I will be a good pharmacist. Life is what you make of it.

The school that I chosed for undergrad was difficult and I know where I am in terms of academic abilities. I am not among the top tier medical applicants but I am certainly not average I believe... which my MCAT score will reflect. My PCAT scores are on level with those with 3.8-4s... so why is my science GPA low? Answer that and you will be awared a cookie <(😵)>

Now with that being said... it looks like you yourself are also considering medicine or you probably wouldn't have a profile up and be looking at non-traditional forums.

How do you intend to overcome this obstacle?

 

[dezokitty]

Now that I look at it, I did misread your post. I apologize for my
misunderstanding!

That being said, I do not encourage going to pharm and then applying for med school, especially if you're certain you want to become a physician. If you know that you want to go into medicine, just go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait another four years getting your PharmD. You'll be fully capable of making into a med school with a BS or other degree. Pharm school gives a lot of great experiences, but it can hurt your application just as much as it helps.

However, it does sound as if you're pretty set on going to pharm school, so if that's the case, it's your choice. However, while pharm school may not be nearly as difficult as med school, try not to underestimate the amount of work that will be given to you. While the content itself may not be difficult, the amount of information you are expected to know may be a lot more than what you experienced in undergrad (and I do understand your undergrad courses must have been difficult). I've seen a lot of people's GPA's become significantly lower after pharm school. I guess, then, my main advice is that if you stick with pharmacy school, make sure to 1) be prepared and 2) be diligent.

Again, I do apologize for my misunderstanding. That was entirely my fault. Whatever you end up doing, good luck to you on your journey, wherever it takes you!

 

[bigpharmD]

I disagree with the whole MD admissions dont like pharmacists. In my personal experience, every pharmacist I know that has applied to medical school has gained admission. Maybe I am just friends with really intelligent pharmacists. One I know did have to do some post-bac work because she did have a lower GPA from pharmacy school.

With that being said if you think you would like to be a doctor more than a pharmacist I would highly recommend working towards that rather than going to pharm school. It will leave you with many "what ifs" and "if i had to do it over again" like many who post on this forum.

 

[Goober]

I disagree with the whole MD admissions dont like pharmacists. In my personal experience, every pharmacist I know that has applied to medical school has gained admission. Maybe I am just friends with really intelligent pharmacists. One I know did have to do some post-bac work because she did have a lower GPA from pharmacy school.

With that being said if you think you would like to be a doctor more than a pharmacist I would highly recommend working towards that rather than going to pharm school. It will leave you with many "what ifs" and "if i had to do it over again" like many who post on this forum.

Well that's because you don't hear about the unsuccessful ones. My wife had at least a half dozen people in her Pharm class that wanted to apply to med school. Out of that group 5 years after graduation, only one got in and he was the class valedictorian. The others didn't talk about not getting in and stated they changed their mind. But she found out from others in the class that these individuals actually applied but didn't get accepted.

 

[PharMed2016]

Well that's because you don't hear about the unsuccessful ones. My wife had at least a half dozen people in her Pharm class that wanted to apply to med school. Out of that group 5 years after graduation, only one got in and he was the class valedictorian. The others didn't talk about not getting in and stated they changed their mind. But she found out from others in the class that these individuals actually applied but didn't get accepted.

I know it will be a hard path... I will probably be applying to DO schools since they are more lenient on undergrad GPA and other professional degrees.

 

[bigpharmD]

Well that's because you don't hear about the unsuccessful ones. My wife had at least a half dozen people in her Pharm class that wanted to apply to med school. Out of that group 5 years after graduation, only one got in and he was the class valedictorian. The others didn't talk about not getting in and stated they changed their mind. But she found out from others in the class that these individuals actually applied but didn't get accepted.

Once again in my opinion I dont think it is because they are looked down upon. If they have the grades, scores on the mcat, and interview well I think they have just as good of a shot as anyone. If you are going the DO route there are some schools that seem to like pharmd's. Nova in florida is one.

On a side note. I know a >50 year old ARNP who just found out she got in to med school. It can be done.

 

[rx515]

If they have the grades, scores on the mcat, and interview well I think they have just as good of a shot as anyone.

I think that may be the key. Now it dont mean to generalize, but I would imagine that the cumulative undergrad GPA (which is only 2 years of classes for many of us) is probably lower for people with pharmDs than traditional pre-meds. So maybe that is skewing the success rates... I think that going to pharmacy school because you dont think you'll get into med school outright and then trying to apply later after getting your pharmD is a horrible idea. If you genuinely have a change of heart, and had a good undergrad gpa (3.7 +), I think you have the same shot as anybody else.

 

[bengaliya]

I a facing this exact same problem and I would appreciate comments and advice. I graduated summa cum laude with a biology maj chem min from a 4 year ppublic university in 2006- I was the typical premed and all of my teachers thought I would get in. I took the mcat that august (paper and pencil) before the start of my senior year and I got a 21. This depressed me so much that I convinced myself this was not for me and got extremely depressed. I retook the mcat 3 more times and did couldnt get abovce a 24 -it was horrible bc of that mental state i was in and I didnt push myself to do better. anyways, i took that year off and didnt get in anywhere bc of my mcat and then started to take classes at my alma mater and found out that I had a guaranteed spot in pharmacy school. 2 of my other ex-premed friends who didnt get in (with great scores) went to pharmacy school guaranteed basically as well. So I am here for the first year at a top 20 pharmacy school, and hatin it. Whenever I see a dr I actually shudder and am feeling full of regret . Is there any way possible that I can go to medical school either next year or after I graduate. I know, now more than ever, that that is where I belong.
My advice, sweety, id do NOT enter something u will regret- I really dont like this feeling. I almost feel like a hypocrite to my own mind. Pharmacy is challenging,I am not saying its stupid, but if u enjoy patient interaction and applied health treatment then honestly pharmacy is not it-pharmacy, regardless what they say, is a job to police dr's and has little direct patient interaction.
Please let me know how i can go to med school, I am 24 now and I dont want to wait to 30. Is caribbean an option?

 

[bigpharmD]

hope your not my doctor...how about PA?

 

[PharMed2016]

I think that may be the key. Now it dont mean to generalize, but I would imagine that the cumulative undergrad GPA (which is only 2 years of classes for many of us) is probably lower for people with pharmDs than traditional pre-meds. So maybe that is skewing the success rates... I think that going to pharmacy school because you dont think you'll get into med school outright and then trying to apply later after getting your pharmD is a horrible idea. If you genuinely have a change of heart, and had a good undergrad gpa (3.7 +), I think you have the same shot as anybody else.

Unfortunately... when your undergrad GPA isn't all that it is cut out to be, you don't have many choices.