PhD after MD

[Matth52]

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I am currently a 2nd year med student and I have a newly found desire to do research. I am not enrolled in an MSTP, but I am interested at getting a PhD. Is it still possible to apply to competitive residency programs after taking ~4yrs to get a phd?

 

[gstrub]

Good lord why? If you are serious about research and still want to practice medicine, I suggest looking into some of the research/medicine combined residencies. There are also fellowships which require certain amounts of research during which you can apply for grants, etc. There are plenty of opportunities to conduct research after medical school. Going back for 4-6 years after M4 into the lab, then looking for a clinical residency...that IMO is crazy! Maybe it's just me...

Do you know what area of clinical medicine you are interested in? We might be able to better steer you if you had an idea.

I know several people who had PhDs that decided to go to medical school. I have never met ONE who has completed his MD and then gone into a PhD program instead of residency.

 

[dl2dp2]

don't do a PhD.

while in theory you can get paid more as a MD/PhD during your PhD years if you are really efficient (125k)--and this is not an option for you at this point anyway, compared to using the NIH loan forgiveness program (~50k), the latter is a much better option for someone like you.

If you do a PhD now, you'll end up with 250k of med school loans AND waste at least 5 years during PhD, if you apply after med school. Research during fellowship is much better. Sure you might have to spend a couple more years before you'll get a K08 compared to an MSTP graduate, but the implicit assumption is that you'll secure an academic medicine job no matter what.

and anyone who tells me that PhD is not the same as postdoc needs to get a reality check.

PhD = postdoc + stupid admin scut

 

[gbwillner]

I am currently a 2nd year med student and I have a newly found desire to do research. I am not enrolled in an MSTP, but I am interested at getting a PhD. Is it still possible to apply to competitive residency programs after taking ~4yrs to get a phd?

OK.... interesting advice from other posters....

To answer your questions, YES it is possible to get a VERY competitive presidency after a PhD. While I agree that waiting until you finish the MD before starting the PhD is not practical, there are other ways of getting the PhD, or as other suggest, research time.
First, you can find out if your program will allow you to stop after 2nd year and to a PhD, by joining the MSTP program or otherwise. Other schools have research years that are paid after second year. There is also a similar program at the NIH. Upon completion of the PhD/research, you are often rewarded by free tuition for your final two years of med school.
Second, there are a FEW research-oriented residencies that will allow you to get a PhD in residency. These often have accelerated curricula.

Of course, if all you care about is money and how much of it you want and when you want it, then I agree that getting a PhD in general is a bad idea.

 

[Brunette1981]

To answer your questions, YES it is possible to get a VERY competitive presidency after a PhD.

Sweet! I just got my Ph.D. two days ago so now I can start looking for those competitive presidency gigs. I'm thinking along the lines of a banana republic-type deal because if you can't exploit the citizenry in order to live a lifestyle of leisure, what's the point?

I expect Cuba will have an opening soon - maybe I should try to be president there. I do like the beach. 😉

 

[biophysicianai]

Yes we can, Brunette, yes we can!

 

[Fencer]

Getting a PhD is like a license to do research, particularly bench research.
At the current time, I would talk with the MSTP as to whether they would consider you now. It would be best. If they decline, you could finish your MD, do a residency, and during a prolonged fellowship, you could earn a PhD. To be capable of doing bench research, you will still have to do at least 3 years in the lab. You might as well get credit for it.

Those people who you see being great scientists with only a MD, they spent several postdoc years after residency or MD.

 

[itsallthesame]

i would say that doing a pre-residency phd is a terrible idea, and here's few reasons:
- what matters for getting a job is publications, don't waste your time with classes
- if you do residency first, you can moon light during research and double-tripple your research income with 1 day/night week of work

ultimately, if you want the PhD, it might be of benefit, but i would suggest doing a faux MD/PhD program. If your school won't accept you, simply find a professor to do research with ASAP and take a leave of absense from your MD program to do the PhD. Yes, you don't get your MD paid for, but you get the degree at a better time in your life to get it. you get to apply for residencies having just finished clinical (and you'll be fresh in the chair of your dept. of interest's mind) plus you'll have the phd cred and a few pubs.
i just talked the head of one of the biggest labs on the west coast who twice got rejected MD/PhD and had to get his PhD this way and it paid off.

 

[Fencer]

i would say that doing a pre-residency phd is a terrible idea, and here's few reasons:
- what matters for getting a job is publications, don't waste your time with classes
- if you do residency first, you can moon light during research and double-tripple your research income with 1 day/night week of work

ultimately, if you want the PhD, it might be of benefit, but i would suggest doing a faux MD/PhD program....

Keep in mind that residency directors, or clinical department chairs (hiring you as faculty) will be suspicious about your clinical activities if you take a 3-4 year break to develop your research skills... even if you moonlight one night a week. I do not think it is a terrible idea. I think is harder doing it after residency.

Learning how to think bench research takes time, you can not undercut it. Learning how to take care of patients also takes time. That is the basic problem for us, clinician scientists. The best time to do a PhD is between the basic and clinical years. However, before you get your first real job, you will need to do one year of postdoc after residency/fellowship to get back into the field.

 

[nakji]

Check out the STAR program at UCLA (www.star.med.ucla.edu). You can get your PhD as a fellow by tacking on a couple years to the end of your clinical fellowship. As long as you get your PhD from UCLA, tuition will be covered and you'll still get a PGY salary. Great way to get the training you need in a field & topic you're interested in, a PhD from a well-regarded academic institution, and guidance & support for a K-award to launch your academic career.