PhD after MD?

[skeptic85]

How hard is it to get a PhD after MD? When do people regularly do it, before or after fellowship? Are there universities which offer combined programs for this? Anybody had any experiences with this or met someone who has done it?


I would greatly appreciate any input 🙂

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[bd4727]

How hard is it to get a PhD after MD? When do people regularly do it, before or after fellowship? Are there universities which offer combined programs for this? Anybody had any experiences with this or met someone who has done it?


I would greatly appreciate any input 🙂

Check out the "track 2" option of the NIH-MD/PhD Global Doctoral Partnerships: http://mdphd.gpp.nih.gov/default.asp

 

[skeptic85]

This program (track 2) is for doing a PhD during medical school; I was wondering about post medical school opportunities.

 

[bd4727]

This program (track 2) is for doing a PhD during medical school; I was wondering about post medical school opportunities.

Oh sorry I didn't really read your post too closely. I thought you were interested in getting into an MD-PhD program toward the end of medical school.

You would have no difficulty gaining admission to a PhD program if you have already completed MD, but this is generally not done for a number of reasons. First, you will make it very hard if not impossible to go back into a residency after 5+ years away from clinical medicine. Also, there is no advantage monetarily to doing it this way. Lastly, there is not really a strong advantage scientifically over just doing a long period of research during fellowship. I guess I don't really see why anyone would want to do it that way.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

You would have no difficulty gaining admission to a PhD program if you have already completed MD, but this is generally not done for a number of reasons. First, you will make it very hard if not impossible to go back into a residency after 5+ years away from clinical medicine. Also, there is no advantage monetarily to doing it this way. Lastly, there is not really a strong advantage scientifically over just doing a long period of research during fellowship. I guess I don't really see why anyone would want to do it that way.

👍

Either do the PhD first, concurrently, or not at all. If you really feel that you need the research experience, do a post-doc as an MD--you can apply for forgiveness grants that use this time to pay off your med school loans, which isn't possible if you're back in a PhD program.

 

[skeptic85]

👍

Either do the PhD first, concurrently, or not at all. If you really feel that you need the research experience, do a post-doc as an MD--you can apply for forgiveness grants that use this time to pay off your med school loans, which isn't possible if you're back in a PhD program.

Well, as I said before finances do not factor into my decision because I have a full scholarship from medical school itself; independently from any MD/PhD program. So I will not have any loans by the time I graduate even if I quit the PhD program and go back to medical school, my medical school is paid for.

 

[Neuronix]

You don't *need* a PhD to be a majority research faculty member. Perform research during medical school, during residency, during fellowship, and as junior faculty. With all of that, you end up with 5+ years in the lab and start writing grants. There's no need and no benefit to taking a 5+ year one shot break from clinical medicine once you complete your MD. Even when doing majority research, it's still good to keep a hand in the clinical world to keep up your skills.

You also have the benefit of a higher salary as a resident/fellow doing research than the PhD stipend and you can moonlight during your research time if you want.

 

[clausewitz2]

Seconded on being able to do research with just an MD. Just such an MD is currently on my dissertation committee and is chief of a section at NIH (and in a pretty squishy field, too). It's very doable.

 

[Ombret]

I guess my question would be why you would want to do this. Tacking on those three extra letters is kind of cool, but aging by five years while your clinical skills atrophy is not. And as has been pointed out, earning the PhD is not more beneficial than just getting research training as an MD postdoc or fellow.

Instead, the trend I have seen recently is for MDs to earn postgraduate MASTER'S degrees. Before the flames descend--WHY WOULD I WANT A LOWER DEGREE WHEN I AM ALREADY A DOCTOR?!?--let me say that I am talking about MS in biostatistics, MS in clinical epidemiology, MS in translational research--one- or two-year programs that give you a little formal training and some research bona fides, maybe give you some specific new skills useful for clinical research, and as a side benefit give you a new sheepskin to hang on your wall. Not every place offers these. At a minimum, Penn and Wash U are two that I am aware of. Maybe this would suit your needs better than a full PhD.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

...And as has been pointed out, earning the PhD is not more beneficial than just getting research training as an MD postdoc or fellow...

Well, NIH data show that people with both MD and PhD get their first R01-equivalent grant at a younger average age than people with just the MD, so there might be some benefit to having both degrees on the funding side...

Well, as I said before finances do not factor into my decision because I have a full scholarship from medical school itself; independently from any MD/PhD program. So I will not have any loans by the time I graduate even if I quit the PhD program and go back to medical school, my medical school is paid for.

Okay, but you'll still make more money as an MD doing a post doc than you will as a grad student pulling in a stipend, so even if med school is paid for I'd still say that the finances are better if you don't do a PhD. Plus you'll probably have retirement savings as an MD doing a post-doc, which you won't if you're in grad school getting a PhD.

Does your full scholarship prevent you from taking out additional loans on top of what they think your budget should be? You should figure out if you can take out additional loans, and then get them paid off by the government as an MD doing a research post-doc. Even if you don't need the money, why not take a loan that someone else is going to pay off for you? Put the money in the bank and start saving for your retirement! (I guess I don't actually endorse that idea, but I also don't feel that strongly against it.)