PhD application and Publications

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Hi there,
I've heard back from the schools I applied to this year and found out I didn't get in this year. 🙁 So I'm working on making my application stronger for next year.
I was just wondering for those of you who have applied to PhD programs how many pubs did you have/ what is a good number to have--I got feedback from a couple of schools that remarked on the fact that I didn't have publications.

Did you all include presentations/abstracts on your CVs?
Lastly how long is too long for a CV?

thanks!
 
My CV is 3 pages long ( I think, no shorter) but the length of a CV is really going to depend on your experience/research/etc. My advisor on the other hand has like a 10 page CV because of all the pubs, associations, etc. I would focus on the content and less on the length. I have so far recieved admission to two schools (one PH and one in a related field) with no publications. I have friends that have been accepted to some of the top programs (Harvard, UW, Hopkins, Emory) without pubs. Most have accumulated a good deal of research experience. These acceptances were for epi/biostats programs. I don't know if that helps.
 
jonu3 said:
Hi there,
I've heard back from the schools I applied to this year and found out I didn't get in this year. 🙁 So I'm working on making my application stronger for next year.
I was just wondering for those of you who have applied to PhD programs how many pubs did you have/ what is a good number to have--I got feedback from a couple of schools that remarked on the fact that I didn't have publications.

Did you all include presentations/abstracts on your CVs?
Lastly how long is too long for a CV?

thanks!
Click to expand...

I was accepted to 3 of the 4 program I applied to. I included all publications (7 but none first-authored) and conference materials (5 but none again none first-authored). I did not include pending articles (not even one that have been "accepted with minor revisions"). Including my volunteer experience, my CV clocks in at 3 pages. However my "brief CV" (what I use for scholarships and fellowships) clocks in at 2 pages because I remove all details/descriptions from the work experience.

Plenty of people get in without any publications at all, but it has certainly never hurt anybody's chances by having more of them. Good luck next year.

PS - Two of the professors who called me complimented the aesthetic of my CV so don't downplay how important it is for your CV to look good. LaTeX can go a long way.
 
CameraMan said:
I was accepted to 3 of the 4 program I applied to. I included all publications (7 but none first-authored) and conference materials (5 but none again none first-authored). I did not include pending articles (not even one that have been "accepted with minor revisions").
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for sharing this information. I am applying for the 2013 incoming class and I have been wondering about whether pending articles should be included. I have a few publications, but only 1 was first-authored.

May I know your stats and the PhD programs for which you applied?
 
Your application should be able to demonstrate your knowledge of the field by having these items:

Your CV should list:
-All education
-All research-related jobs
-All research publications
-All research posters/presentations

Your personal statement/statement of purpose should list:
-Why you need research training
-What field you're applying for
-Understanding of what the field is and what a researcher does
-What gaps in the field exist and how you feel you can fill in those gaps with training

Publications aren't critical to getting accepted to a PhD program. I didn't have any at the time I was accepted. But I had three-years of full-time epi research experience (done concurrently during my MPH + 1 year working afterwards) and two-years full-time biology research experience (done my last two years of undergrad), and one conference poster.
 
Stories is correct.

I have 2 years of experience in basic research and 3 years of epi research experience (2 years part-time during MPH), an MD degree from out of US, 4 publications (1 first author), 10 abstracts presented as posters, international work experience. Still, I am left with no acceptance from any universities. It was a lack of focus in my personal statement that led to my downfall (as told by HSPH).

So don't think about publications,etc. Be specific in what you want to do a PhD for, why that particular university, identify a potential supervisor if you can, and write a small paragraph on how your research work can help the scientific community and people... Write an honest statement, straight from the heart, and I think you will be fine (with the help of some good recommendation letters).

I learned from my mistake (sheer laziness while sending in my applications)... Now I am doing a postdoc for a year and apply again for a PhD next year (Ironic, isn't it?) 😉
 
honjokun06 said:
Thank you so much for sharing this information. I am applying for the 2013 incoming class and I have been wondering about whether pending articles should be included. I have a few publications, but only 1 was first-authored.

May I know your stats and the PhD programs for which you applied?
Click to expand...

I applied to HSPH, Hopkins, Columbia, and SDSU/UCSD. Still waiting to hear back from Columbia. I don't remember my exact GRE component scores (took them ages ago), but my total score was around 1550—I did really bad on the writing though (whatever 60th %ile is). Got my MPH from a bottom tier school, but did well there (e.g., numerous research and academic awards as well as a volunteerism award, high GPA) and worked throughout the process. I also currently work at a top-ranked university (and have for two years).

I think pending articles is a toss-up. I've seen them included. I didn't put mine in because I felt they were unrelated to what I was applying for.

Like others have said, no publications is certainly not a application killer, but it doesn't hurt to have them. They represent more than just a mere paper--at this stage in most applicants careers, they also signify that your boss (hopefully a well-respected one) trusts you enough to put their name next to yours and that you're driven enough to push for one. That said, few things have as much value as a well done personal statement and a great fit.
 
I think that certain schools and programs place more emphasis on having publications if you're a PhD applicant. One school that I was considering applying to explicitly told me that since I didn't have any publications I shouldn't bother to apply because I would be rejected. So my advice would be to do your research about specific programs- talk to faculty members about what they're looking for & look up current student profiles. This can save you a lot of time (and money) in the application process!
 
CameraMan said:
I think pending articles is a toss-up. I've seen them included. I didn't put mine in because I felt they were unrelated to what I was applying for.

Like others have said, no publications is certainly not a application killer, but it doesn't hurt to have them. They represent more than just a mere paper--at this stage in most applicants careers, they also signify that your boss (hopefully a well-respected one) trusts you enough to put their name next to yours and that you're driven enough to push for one. That said, few things have as much value as a well done personal statement and a great fit.
Click to expand...

Having publications in the field of study is a HUGE plus. So if you have a paper that's accepted then you should absolutely include those on your CV and talk about it in your statement of purpose if it's applicable to the area of study. You can list these as "In Press" on your CV. Articles that were submitted (I'm assuming this is 'pending'?) shouldn't be listed on CVs.

A good personal statement and well thought out research ideas will always win over unrelated publications, however.

MPHandPsych said:
I think that certain schools and programs place more emphasis on having publications if you're a PhD applicant. One school that I was considering applying to explicitly told me that since I didn't have any publications I shouldn't bother to apply because I would be rejected. So my advice would be to do your research about specific programs- talk to faculty members about what they're looking for & look up current student profiles. This can save you a lot of time (and money) in the application process!
Click to expand...

I think that's absolutely ridiculous of that school. The point of a PhD program is to train students to become scientists in that field of study. Publication is the avenue in which scientists disseminate their findings. Why would you expect a potential student to already be capable of writing scientific papers of publishable merit if he/she hasn't received the training yet?

Ugh, I'll get off my soap box now.
 
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Stories said:
I think that's absolutely ridiculous of that school. The point of a PhD program is to train students to become scientists in that field of study. Publication is the avenue in which scientists disseminate their findings. Why would you expect a potential student to already be capable of writing scientific papers of publishable merit if he/she hasn't received the training yet?

Ugh, I'll get off my soap box now.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you....which is why I didn't waste my time & money on applying to that particular program.
 
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g.gif
Agree with above
 
Bburgdorferi said:
May I know which program are you talking about? :O
Click to expand...

I'd rather not put the name out there since it is a good school & they have an excellent public health program. I personally just had a negative experience with that particular faculty member who told me not to apply...
 
Most of those type of programs will have the requirement clearly stated in their admission section. I have 1 first author abstract and several co-authored abstracts/presentations/papers. There were at least 2 or 3 programs that I considered applying to which required you to send in a manuscript where you were the primary author. I did not apply to those programs as they strike me as more interested in capitalizing off of students prior experiences/connections as opposed to training future leaders in the field.
 
I don't have any pubs, and only started getting involved with research the second year of my masters (some of which I wasn't able to include on some of my apps that were due earlier). I have a high GPA, a strong quantitative background, 1500 GRE, very strong LOR, and what I what like to think a strong personal statement (kind of subjective, though right?). I seem to be getting rejected or interviewed then rejected at "top" schools, and talking to other people at interview days- it seems like I have a lot less experience than other candidates. My signature has my acceptances/rejections so when I hear back from the final 3 it will give a better picture of where someone with my credentials stands. I definitely think different schools weight different aspects of the applicant differently.
 
Epi19 said:
I don't have any pubs, and only started getting involved with research the second year of my masters (some of which I wasn't able to include on some of my apps that were due earlier). I have a high GPA, a strong quantitative background, 1500 GRE, very strong LOR, and what I what like to think a strong personal statement (kind of subjective, though right?). I seem to be getting rejected or interviewed then rejected at "top" schools, and talking to other people at interview days- it seems like I have a lot less experience than other candidates. My signature has my acceptances/rejections so when I hear back from the final 3 it will give a better picture of where someone with my credentials stands. I definitely think different schools weight different aspects of the applicant differently.
Click to expand...

All applicants to a PhD program will have these characteristics. It's a bit of a self selected group that applies for more education, so that won't make you stand out.

There's also a big timing element involved here, too. There just might not be adequate space to fit you into a department. Admissions cycles tend to be a bit cyclical, one year might be a down year, another might be an up year. Don't lose hope.

There's always next year 🙂
 
Stories said:
There's also a big timing element involved here, too. There just might not be adequate space to fit you into a department. Admissions cycles tend to be a bit cyclical, one year might be a down year, another might be an up year. Don't lose hope.

There's always next year 🙂
Click to expand...

I would second that...this is my second time applying to PhD programs (different field though). One thing that helped me the first time around was to contact the schools that I was really interested in (or had previous contact with) to get feedback on how to make myself a more competitive applicant. Some completely ignored this request of mine, however one faculty member from a school went above and beyond that and actually went over my application, piece by piece with me on the phone to provide individualized feedback. Also, for me, really researching programs on what specifically they are looking for in applicants (besides the usual good grades, high GPA/test scores, etc) helped me really narrow down my list of schools the second time I applied. (This is the reason why I was seeking out the info I provided above regarding asking a school about having some publications under your belt before applying- this tidbit came out of a conversation I had with a faculty member that I reached out to discuss my potential for admission to the program.)

It's not completely unheard of for people to apply several times before being accepted in PhD programs dependent on the program & school, so don't give up! 👍
 
Unrelated sidenote- MPHandPsych, is that your dog? So cute!
 
Stories said:
All applicants to a PhD program will have these characteristics. It's a bit of a self selected group that applies for more education, so that won't make you stand out.

There's also a big timing element involved here, too. There just might not be adequate space to fit you into a department. Admissions cycles tend to be a bit cyclical, one year might be a down year, another might be an up year. Don't lose hope.

There's always next year 🙂
Click to expand...

This is totally true based on my experience of going to interview days and talking to other students. My point to the OP was that you can get into a program without pubs, but they help, as does a substantial amount of research experience. You will not get in on grades and GREs alone, because there are too many applicants with great grades and GREs. (For example, most of my friends have 3.7s or above in their MPH program- so that's not uncommon). Your research interest and how it fits with what the school happens to be looking for that year is very important.... I have found that faculty members that are the most enthusiastic about me, are those doing interdisciplinary quant-heavy research, and they like the fact that I was a math major in undergrad. You would think that my undergrad major would be irrelevant, and in most cases it is, but for very specific research areas it isn't. What makes you stand out could be dependent on your research interest. Anyway, this process is so overwhelming and competitive- I can't wait for it to be over!!
 
Wow thanks everyone. Yeah I know a good number of people who have gotten into public health programs without any pubs, I have about 4 years of PH research experiences which I'm now seeing wasn't very clearly articulated in my statement but is on my CV.

The feedback I received specifically stated "The committee, unanimously, was concerned about your lack of professional publications. They did not see any noted in your resume"
Which surprised me, I definitely agree with you stories--if I had a whole bunch of publications than why would I be needing to get PhD training.

I'll work on fine tuning the statement and I asked the CV question only because I think mine is a little cluttered.

thanks everyone!
 
MPHandPsych said:
One thing that helped me the first time around was to contact the schools that I was really interested in (or had previous contact with) to get feedback on how to make myself a more competitive applicant. Some completely ignored this request of mine, however one faculty member from a school went above and beyond that and actually went over my application, piece by piece with me on the phone to provide individualized feedback.
Click to expand...

I'll second this one. This also has been my experience and current approach. I emailed the school of my interest (and attached my CV) and asked about how viable my application would be. Some places totally ignored me, others really took the time to discuss with me about studying at their department.
 
This entire process of applications is so stressful, and in the end, the result is highly subjective (in the hands of a handful of people). There is no transparency in the process, no specific criteria for admission, etc. I have seen a few people with the exact same profile, some getting accepted and the others being rejected. I think in the end it all comes down to the first paragraph of your statement, the first page on your CV, the designations of your referees and the mood of the committee members. If these things catch the attention of the committee, then there is a possibility that your application will be looked at thoroughly.
 
Bburgdorferi said:
This entire process of applications is so stressful, and in the end, the result is highly subjective (in the hands of a handful of people). There is no transparency in the process, no specific criteria for admission, etc. I have seen a few people with the exact same profile, some getting accepted and the others being rejected. I think in the end it all comes down to the first paragraph of your statement, the first page on your CV, the designations of your referees and the mood of the committee members. If these things catch the attention of the committee, then there is a possibility that your application will be looked at thoroughly.
Click to expand...

Don't let this get you down too much. You still have what you currently have going on in your life, don't let this define you or overrule you. It's only one possibility out of a hundred others.

I think the difficult part is quantifying something that's inherently qualitative. It's not an exact science, but there are certain characteristics that all successful applicants possess which we all have touched on in this thread.

PhD applications are also extremely competitive for the most part, with the majority of programs tending to have <10% acceptance rates. And over time, the number of applicants have gone up considerably. So with all that considered, don't feel too bad about this whole thing, you'll get where you belong 🙂
 
I understand. Thanks 🙂

Ok, I have a query. Will a postdoctoral research experience affect my chances of getting into a doctoral degree?

Ok, let me explain. I have completed my MD (out of US) and the only full time job I got after MPH was of a postdoctoral research fellow (due to funding issues, the only position my supervisor could afford was a postdoc, as they are not paid much anyways).

But it puts me in a weird position. If the faculty look at my CV and see that I am working as a postdoctoral research fellow (after getting an MD), they may question the need for a PhD...
 
Bburgdorferi said:
I understand. Thanks 🙂

Ok, I have a query. Will a postdoctoral research experience affect my chances of getting into a doctoral degree?

Ok, let me explain. I have completed my MD (out of US) and the only full time job I got after MPH was of a postdoctoral research fellow (due to funding issues, the only position my supervisor could afford was a postdoc, as they are not paid much anyways).

But it puts me in a weird position. If the faculty look at my CV and see that I am working as a postdoctoral research fellow (after getting an MD), they may question the need for a PhD...
Click to expand...

Well, the question I would pose is, if you already have a MD and MPH, why bother with another PhD? You can do epi research with those qualifications. Do the postdoc and get the relevant training you need and move onto your career. Don't take a step back and be a student again 😀
 
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