PhD then MD or MSTP?

[leftcoast]

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Hey -

I have been having a bit of a dilemma...

I was not a pre-med or pre-graduate school type (I wanted to coach high school XC) and majored in exercise science (kinesiology) at a small school - Willamette University. I got my start in science coursework fairly late (about 2 years ago), and got my start in research equally late, doing two summers of human exercise physiology (blood lactate, ventilatory threshold stuff) research. I only recently have started doing molecular-level research (about six months ago). I also applied to Oregon Health Science University's PhD program last winter (thinking I wanted to be a liberal arts professor), and ended up deferring a year for family reasons. In the meantime I am continuing to work in the lab of a professor at Portland State and take additional science courses. Recently though, I have become interested in the MD/PhD route, but found out from OHSU that I cannot transfer into the dual degree program from the PhD program. I really want to stay in Portland because of family/relationship ties (my girlfriend just started graduate school in Portland and my mom is disabled and lives there as well). I have not yet taken the MCAT, but here are my stats (or at least as far as I know after the coming year):

GPA: 4.0

3 summers research (2 summers human exercise physiology with 1 summer as an American Physiological Society Undergraduate Research Fellow, and 1 summer cell biology research)
1.5 academic years of ion channel physiology research
Working on two manuscripts currently and have presented research at two national and two regional meetings

1 summer volunteer internship in cardiac rehabilitation, 1 semester abroad in Spain, 2 years varsity college track and XC

So, I have two options to pursue:

1) Continue on and go to OHSU to get my PhD and then get an MD

2) Withdraw my intention to go to OHSU, take the MCAT next spring, and apply for admission into the 2010 class. Of course, I know that I would need to continue to work in a lab and volunteer during this time. Does anyone know whether all this mucking about (applying and deferring, then applying again) would make way too flaky for admission?

So, option two is obviously a really big risk for me, as I would be throwing away a sure thing, and delaying starting school by two years (and I just turned 24 - I had to repeat kindergarten - long story). I am sorry if this comes out like a "what are my chances" type of self-indulgent post, but being from a small school and not even knowing any MDs or MD/PhDs, I just really have no clue about how this all works. Thanks for any and all advice, and sorry for the length.

 

[URHere]

Have you talked to Dr. Fleming about this directly? He is the new director of the MSTP program at OHSU, and I know he has been extremely helpful to my MD-only classmates who are thinking about transferring. I know your situation is different, but I think that he could give you the most straightforward answers to your questions. Also, OHSU MSTP seems to love applicants who love them, and going straight to the source and expressing interest really couldn't hurt.

As for the rest of your questions, my advice would be to study for and take the MCAT prior to leaving your program. While you don't need a 99th percentile score to get into OHSU, you still do need a good score and there is no point in leaving your program until you have taken the test, talked to Dr. Fleming, and figured out what your chances really are.

Good luck!

 

[Neuronix]

Few programs do accept PhD transfers into the MD/PhD program and even then it's pretty rare. I've always been unclear on why programs are much more willing to take MD transfers than PhD transfers, but that's how it is. If you really want to go to medical school, you need to take the MCAT before you can decide what to do. That's going to be a big part of your application for anyone in the position to make such decisions.

Once you start a PhD program you will be expected to finish. So I would not start until you have exhausted your other options or decided they aren't worth it.

Now if you must stay in Portland, then I think you should start the PhD program. Yes, talk to the MD/PhD director and see what he has to say, as this may straighten things out. But you should know that medical school or MD/PhD isn't like graduate school. You apply to a dozen programs to get into one. Your location preferences sometimes work out, but often do not. I don't know how hard it would be for you to apply to medical school at OHSU being a state school. But keep in mind that MD/PhD programs don't give an in-state preference. I also don't know what it's going to mean to them that you were enrolled in a PhD program there already. They may still look at you as a PhD transfer or as a flake. It may not be so bad but I just don't know.

If you do apply nationally you can pretend like the PhD thing never happened since you never matriculated there or took classes there.

 

[pseudoknot]

Few programs do accept PhD transfers into the MD/PhD program and even then it's pretty rare. I've always been unclear on why programs are much more willing to take MD transfers than PhD transfers, but that's how it is.

It's harder to get into an MD program than a PhD program, all things being equal. (This isn't addressing how hard it may be to finish those programs, successfully pursue careers in medicine or science, or the average penis length of MDs vs. PhDs! Only the difficulty of initial admission.)

 

[Brunette1981]

It's harder to get into an MD program than a PhD program, all things being equal. (This isn't addressing how hard it may be to finish those programs, successfully pursue careers in medicine or science, or the average penis length of MDs vs. PhDs! Only the difficulty of initial admission.)

Also, generally scheduling is more difficult for PhD transfers because they end up "pausing" the PhD portion to do the first 2 years of medical school then returning to the lab, which is difficult in terms of the science advancing and the PI not wanting to wait on a hot project.

 

[pseudoknot]

Also, generally scheduling is more difficult for PhD transfers because they end up "pausing" the PhD portion to do the first 2 years of medical school then returning to the lab, which is difficult in terms of the science advancing and the PI not wanting to wait on a hot project.

Oh, that's an excellent point as well!

 

[Neuronix]

Also, generally scheduling is more difficult for PhD transfers because they end up "pausing" the PhD portion to do the first 2 years of medical school then returning to the lab, which is difficult in terms of the science advancing and the PI not wanting to wait on a hot project.

I don't follow this line of logic because typically students are rotating and taking classes for their entire first year. If they transfer after that I'm not sure much is lost.

 

[leftcoast]

So URHere, I read your profile link and you are quite possibly superhuman or, at the very least, you do not sleep. So, what exactly does OHSU mean when it says " Applicants also should have demonstrated leadership qualities through activities and interests that are outside of the laboratory and classroom, and have shown a clear commitment to medicine through volunteer activities." Also, it looks like Dr. David Jacoby is now the MSTP director - is he generally a nice and understanding guy? Thanks again.

 

[URHere]

So URHere, I read your profile link and you are quite possibly superhuman or, at the very least, you do not sleep. So, what exactly does OHSU mean when it says " Applicants also should have demonstrated leadership qualities through activities and interests that are outside of the laboratory and classroom, and have shown a clear commitment to medicine through volunteer activities." Also, it looks like Dr. David Jacoby is now the MSTP director - is he generally a nice and understanding guy? Thanks again.

OHSU is one of those schools that really seeks out what most people would call the "well-rounded" applicant. In my class we have people with amazing skills (including at least 40 people who regularly camp, hike, climb, etc, about 7 former radio DJs, two licensed pilots, yoga instructors...and the people in the MSTP program are no less involved). OHSU wants exactly what they say - they want applicants to show that they have some significant interest outside of the normal school, research, clinical work pre-med formula, and they want them to care enough about those interests to devote significant time to them (usually by holding some sort of leadership role). Like most schools, they also want applicants to have some clinical experience so that they don't end up accepting a class full of amazing people who hate medicine.

Will it destroy your chances if your volunteer work or extracurriculars are limited? With OHSU, I really can't say exactly - but those things are a huge help to applicants who may not have the best GPA or MCAT score.

As for the director situation, Dr. Jacoby is the new program director. He seems to be very helpful and understanding although he is a bit difficult to track down. Email him, and I'm sure he'll be willing to help you out one way or another.