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Noosh

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Hey everyone... does anyone know or is thinking of doing a PhD first when coming to the U.S as a foreign medical graduate...
What are the pros and cons.. Does it help you get a very competitive residency in Pathology if u take a PhD in it???
I would reaaalllly appreciate a reply Doctors!
thanks
 
Getting a PhD to make yourself more competitive for residency is about the worst idea I've ever heard. Earning a doctorate requires years of poverty and intellectual suffering, and for what? The hope that some "very competitive" residency program will care? Screw that.
 
Noosh said:
Hey everyone... does anyone know or is thinking of doing a PhD first when coming to the U.S as a foreign medical graduate...
What are the pros and cons.. Does it help you get a very competitive residency in Pathology if u take a PhD in it???
I would reaaalllly appreciate a reply Doctors!
thanks
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The benefits are miniscule compared to the effort and years you put in for getting that degree. Wouldn't recommend that course of action if the main reason is to land a competitive residency in path.
 
Noosh said:
Hey everyone... does anyone know or is thinking of doing a PhD first when coming to the U.S as a foreign medical graduate...
What are the pros and cons.. Does it help you get a very competitive residency in Pathology if u take a PhD in it???
I would reaaalllly appreciate a reply Doctors!
thanks
Click to expand...

I agree with Andy and Havarti666 - it is a really bad idea to go to graduate school just to increase your chances to get into a competitive residency program. There is no guarantee that this would happen and you might be better off doing a 2-year post doctoral fellowship and trying to publish something. PhD takes a LOT of effort and you should only do it in my oppinion if you are serious about doing science in the future. Getting your PhD might take much longer than you have expected and it is hard to do well and go through this rather exhausting experience if you do it for the wrong reason.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
The benefits are miniscule compared to the effort and years you put in for getting that degree. Wouldn't recommend that course of action if the main reason is to land a competitive residency in path.
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On that topic, just out of interest - I've heard that BWH has admitted only 3 out of 9 anatomic pathology residents that hold a PhD degree, the rest are straight MDs. I thought Brigham has usually more PhDs on their program. Are they changing their focus from to research to clinics or did the admitted MDs did a lot of research and already had some publications?
 
psycho-Path said:
On that topic, just out of interest - I've heard that BWH has admitted only 3 out of 9 anatomic pathology residents that hold a PhD degree, the rest are straight MDs. I thought Brigham has usually more PhDs on their program. Are they changing their focus from to research to clinics or did the admitted MDs did a lot of research and already had some publications?
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For the past several years, we've gotten a good mix of folks. You're right, we have 3 new mudphuds and 6 new straight MDs. Some of the latter group have impressive publication records, from what I hear. I'm just starting to get to know these new first years but I don't know much. It's not like I go snooping around and look at their ERAS applications :laugh:

The clinical aspects of the department continues to improve and is quite strong. The volume and complexity of specimens continue to increase and we get a lot of awesome consults here. We still have a fair share of folks who are interested in research. Many of the residents go outside of the department to pursue postdoctoral fellowships. Ultimately, they secure academic jobs that allow limited signout time and a great lab startup package. So I don't sense a dramatic change in focus.

Here's another thing. So from what I hear, a long time ago, Brigham was the haven for research-oriented folks. Times now are different. There are some other awesome programs that emphasize and recruit research oriented folks very hard. Some of these departments are headed by Brigham alumni who are building up the research at their respective places. Some are farther along in their development than others. But clearly, this means that your research-oriented residency applicants have some great options to choose from.
 
Thank u all for your replies.. The thing is I am interested in a research career and thats why i wanna do patho. However the fact that I can't control when to graduate and the issue of no money is pushing me towards doing a residency first then pursuing a Phd.
 
Noosh said:
doing a residency first then pursuing a Phd.
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Look, forget the PhD. It's not worth your time now, and it's really not worth your time after residency.
 
Havarti666 said:
Look, forget the PhD. It's not worth your time now, and it's really not worth your time after residency.
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Agreed. If you're going to do a residency first, you might as well just do a postdoc afterwards if you're really into research. If you do a PhD, then you're gonna have to do a postdoc after the PhD anyways. Then it'll be so many years after completing residency that you'll have forgotten a whole bunch of pathology. Plus, if you're going to be a scientist, it's the accomplishments during the postdoc that matter...not the PhD. And with an MD, you can do a postdoc. So just jump straight to the chase. No farting around with the PhD.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Here's another thing. So from what I hear, a long time ago, Brigham was the haven for research-oriented folks. Times now are different. There are some other awesome programs that emphasize and recruit research oriented folks very hard. Some of these departments are headed by Brigham alumni who are building up the research at their respective places. Some are farther along in their development than others. But clearly, this means that your research-oriented residency applicants have some great options to choose from.
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When interviewing, it was astounding how many path chairs and big wigs were trained or had worked at BWH. That place is definitely the place to go if you want to be a leader in pathology.

Aren't most of the Robbins chapter authors associated with BWH? While it seems there used to be other texts for med school path at one time, now every single program uses Robbins.

Not only has BWH Pathology molded scores of path programs they have left a huge imprint on US medical education in general.
 
No doubt that Path at BWH is great.
Very little doubt that a Ph.D. is overkill to get a residency, unless you REALLY want a Ph.D., and are prepared to spend years on a pittance to get it.

Heck, the Director of Surg Path at BWH never took a US Residency and isn't boarded in Path in the US. So anything's possible, if you really want it (and you're good enough for others to want you).
 
pathstudent said:
When interviewing, it was astounding how many path chairs and big wigs were trained or had worked at BWH. That place is definitely the place to go if you want to be a leader in pathology.

Aren't most of the Robbins chapter authors associated with BWH? While it seems there used to be other texts for med school path at one time, now every single program uses Robbins.

Not only has BWH Pathology molded scores of path programs they have left a huge imprint on US medical education in general.
Click to expand...
Yeah, quite a few authors of the Robbins text have roots at the Brigham. Quite a few Brigham grads are chairs at other programs and it was interesting to run into some of them on the interview trail.
 
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