Physics: calculus based or not??

[hnbui]

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Well i am majoring in neuroscience at tulane and it requires a 2 semester of physics. The thing is though that the major lets you pick between intro physics I & II, which is non calculus based, and general physics I & II, the calculus based on. which one should i take? which one would prepare me better for the mcat?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Well, the MCAT won't have any calculus for its physics.

 

[hnbui]

Well, the MCAT won't have any calculus for its physics.

okay thanks for the reply. I am pretty good in calculus, it's just that i am not very fond of physics. 🙂

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Many schools offer two physics tracks, calc or non calc, just like your school. At UCSD, the non-calc track is a better choice for pre-meds, as the material is meant to prepare pre-health and bio majors, while the calc based it made for engineering and physics students. Ask the Physics department at Tulane if there is a reccommended track.

 

[jmeyers52]

many schools do offer both the calculus and non-calculus based physics courses. i think it's also true that the non-calculus based is generally recommended for pre-health and other non-physics science majors. however, i think that some, if not most, med schools would look more favorably upon the more rigorous (ie calculus-based) course.

 

[IndyZX]

yeah, since the mcat wont test for calc. based physics, def. take whats easier for you.

also, keep in mind that mastering mcat physics is about having a rock-solid grasp of the concepts involved, more so than just being able to plug in numbers (though important). so, my advice is to really try to understand the 'why' in addition to finding the answer through a formula.

good luck

 

[MoosePilot]

To disagree with another poster, I don't even think med schools will care, unless your grade is worse. They don't get course descriptions, just names. Intro to Physics and General Physics sound pretty similar and they're looking at thousands of apps. Take the one you prefer.

 

[Assembler]

The physics portion of the MCAT does not test any calculus-based knowledge.

I think I was confused beforehand. I'm not sure whether or not medical schools require calculus-based physics, although in my opinion, it would look better (ie. it is more rigorous). To tell you the truth though, unless you take calculus-based physics for engineers (instead of pre-health majors), you should be fine. There is very little calculus involved in the entire year, and what does have calculus includes simple integrals/derivatives. I wouldn't sweat it. Pick anything.

 

[premedgeek]

Don't take calcbased-physics if all the engineers/math majors are taking the same class. Its just suicide (speaking from experience).

 

[hnbui]

thanks for replying everyone.

I will choose the non calculus based ones though.

Assembler do you know whish med school requires cal based physics?

 

[Assembler]

I edited my post. You're probably better off choosing non-calculus based physics. I think I got mixed with up with the fact that most universities require CB-physics for science majors. Oh well.

 

[premedgeek]

thanks for replying everyone.

I will choose the non calculus based ones though.

Assembler do you know whish med school requires cal based physics?

Harvard for one requires calc based physics.

 

[hnbui]

Harvard for one requires calc based physics.

oh.... 🙁

 

[Medikit]

Look for a professor who gives multiple choice tests and doesn't allow you to use your calculator and take his/her course.

 

[Samus Aran]

tulane will tell you the non-calc one is ok

 

[Gerg]

I'd recommend the calculus based physics. Doing basic physics without calculus is just wrong. It's watered down, and you don't get exposure to the mathematical relationships in class (which, I would say make understanding easier).

If you allow me to use derivatives to relate displacement to acceleration, and intergals to go the opposite way, I can tell you the concepts in a much quicker, more efficient manner. They actually make sense! Plus, if you're having trouble with calculus, the basic Physics will help you get a sense for those concepts!

I've seen the material from a non-clac based physics course, and I feel that it is insulting to Sir Issac Newton. To teach his laws without the understanding of his mathematics, that is.

For those of you who are saying that the MCAT doesn't require the calculus, I don't know. I feel that knowledge should be learned for knowledge's sake, not to take a test.

 

[hnbui]

this leads me to another question. Inorder to take physical chemistry i will need to take the cal based physic. Do you guys think physical chemistry is worth it?

 

[Gerg]

P Chem is awesome.

I know for a fact that if I throw a baseball at a brick wall, I can calculate the finite probability that it will pass directly through the wall. And I can say that I believe whole heartedly that if I were to throw the baseball at the brick wall enough times, it will pass through.

Plus, you get to learn about quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and a lot of statistical stuff.

 

[hnbui]

P Chem is awesome.

I know for a fact that if I throw a baseball at a brick wall, I can calculate the finite probability that it will pass directly through the wall. And I can say that I believe whole heartedly that if I were to throw the baseball at the brick wall enough times, it will pass through.

Plus, you get to learn about quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and a lot of statistical stuff.

was it hard for you?

 

[phosphorylation]

ok, I have to say this. I'm in ohio state, so I can only speak for my school. Calc based physics is not only calculus based. What I mean is that, the difference between the calc based and the non clac based is not only calc, but most importantly, its extremely harder. It goes into a lot more depth. I took physics 1 calc based, since I was a biochem major, and then took physics 2 non calc based, which turned out to be an easy A even though your talking about a total different course.

Who takes physics with calc? Biochem majors so they have the prereqs for physical biochemistry, and chem majors, for physical chemistry (pchem), I've also heard of other unergraduate majors not offered at my school, like bioengineering, or something like that.

Is physical chemistry worth it? Its all about quantum chemistry (schrodinger), thermochemistry, etc, basically the kind of chemistry you DON'T want to get into unless your goal is a chem major or the like. Personally, I think if you want to go to med school, stay away from two things, calc based physics, and most of all physical chemistry. I cannot tell you what to take, but i do wish you the best of luck.

 

[Gerg]

Not hard, as in difficult to get, but hard as in showing up to class at 8 am every morning (luckily I had a roommate who was in the class too, and he'd drag me there).

It was also time consuming, some people just don't want to spend 4 hours on a homework problem... I don't know why. It was a challenge, but I wouldn't say it was hard.

I'm glad I took it.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I hated Pchem, hardest class i've ever taken that was only 3 units. Anyhow, Harvard requires calc based physics for HST, but not for New Pathway.

 

[IndyZX]

It was also time consuming, some people just don't want to spend 4 hours on a homework problem... I don't know why.

...

 

[hnbui]

I hated Pchem, hardest class i've ever taken that was only 3 units. Anyhow, Harvard requires calc based physics for HST, but not for New Pathway.

what is hst?

 

[principessa]

I have to offer my support for calc-based physics. I took it partly to gain the respect of my physics-major boyfriend and partly because it offered me more flexibility in scheduling than the algebra-based course. If you know your calculus, this is a better course because you will really understand physics. If you take algebra-based physics you will probably forget it all really soon and you will struggle to connect everything. Yeah, maybe there's no calculus on the MCAT, but there is plenty of physics, and if you don't understand it, what's the point? Plus, at least at my school, the algebra-based physics course is really terrible. The main instructor is a *****, he only teaches at night, and you are required to attend the discussion sections, even if you're not getting anything out of them - a big waste of time in my book.

 

[Assembler]

I find it odd that some schools here don't require calculus-based physics (for undergraduate). Most schools I know of (in CA) require it, with only one exception that I know of (USC). I'm not even sure if the "Physics for Poets" class we have down here requires Calculus; albeit, it's obviously an easy A.

 

[IndyZX]

I find it odd that some schools here don't require calculus-based physics (for undergraduate). Most schools I know of (in CA) require it, with only one exception that I know of (USC). I'm not even sure if the "Physics for Poets" class we have down here requires Calculus; albeit, it's obviously an easy A.

Well, not all of us are science majors. 😉

The rest of my science classes were filled with pre-meds, but my Physics I class had all sorts of other health professions types in there (Optometry, Nursing, Pharmacy, etc.). The pre-meds generally took the calculus based version.

 

[dfleis]

.

 

[ms2209]

I took calc-based Physics. In retrospect, I'm not sure it really made a difference one way or another. The reason I chose calc-based was that I'm pretty good in Calculus, and since I'd had a horrible experience with Physics before (in H.S.), I thought that if I tried taking Physics with Calc, it would be more tolerable. I still hate Physics, but I survived...it was really tough, but in all honesty, there wasn't a lot of Calc in there. The second semester involved lots of derivations of formulas, but usually all you needed to know was integration/derivation, nothing major. Anyway, I think it depends on how much you want to invest in the class and which style you would be more comfortable with. Also, I'm not sure med schools will know either - I wish they did, but it seems as though they wouldn't be able to tell who has taken what, so I guess it all boils down to your preferences. Good luck!

 

[ms2209]

I'm not even sure if the "Physics for Poets" class we have down here requires Calculus; albeit, it's obviously an easy A.

Actually, I've heard that "Physics for Poets" is a pretty tough class, because it's all about theory and not number-crunching. I was skeptical, of course, but that's what I heard! 😀

 

[g3pro]

Take non-calculus based physics. The calc based physics are much more difficult and won't really help you in non-engineering (or non-chem) majors.

I have non-calculus based physics credit from my junior year in high school. Why do I still know the principles and theories of physics 4 years later? They drove home the relationships etc in physics and did not emphasize the equations of the physics. Reviewing for the MCAT is much easier when you need to brush up on the equations and not the fundamentals. 👍

 

[hnbui]

to take or not to take that is the question.


hahahah i'm so conflicted now. 😕

 

[papertiger]

P Chem is awesome.

I know for a fact that if I throw a baseball at a brick wall, I can calculate the finite probability that it will pass directly through the wall. And I can say that I believe whole heartedly that if I were to throw the baseball at the brick wall enough times, it will pass through.

Plus, you get to learn about quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and a lot of statistical stuff.

Yes, but the probability is so small that it make take longer than the entire age of the universe for it to actually happen.

Note: don't take p-chem just because you think it will look nice on your application. That class will make orgo look like a joke.

 

[hnbui]

Yes, but the probability is so small that it make take longer than the entire age of the universe for it to actually happen.

Note: don't take p-chem just because you think it will look nice on your application. That class will make orgo look like a joke.

okay thanks everyone. I am not going to take pchem. 😀

 

[Iffy premed]

There is no need to torture yourself with calc-based physics. Of course, unless your major requires you to take it, you like calc or physics, or you want to challenge yourself. If you do take it, be sure to get a good grade, or it will look foolish. But if you are just a premed trying to fufill a requirement, go with the none-calc physics class. It serves the same purpose, and perhaps even better, because it doesn't fill your brain with info that will not be on the MCAT.

Note: I loved p-chem 😀
you will too if you like calculus
I learned more calc in p-chem than in my calc class

 

[ShyRem]

I have to say take the calc-based physics. You will understand WHY rather than just plug-n-chug. And some school require calc-based. Remember, you're going into a career where the whole question is "WHY does it work" and "WHY DOESN'T it work?" So why take courses that won't help you think that way? I took calc-based physics, and let me tell you the folks in algebra-based classes were SO lost! They had no idea WHY anything did anything else - they just memorized formulas. At least with calc-based if you forget what to do, you can derive it and figure it out.

As for P-Chem, I say take it. It explains a lot. But better get CalcIII and Complex Analysis (aka complex number calculus) done first.

 

[Code Brown]

The real question is not whether or not you can take calc or non-calc physics, but whether or not you can get into a PBL based physics class. These are much better than the traditional ones. That said, if you can avoid the calc-based classes, do so. You will study a lot less and still learn the same material. I'm no expert, but I TA both calc and non-calc physics classes at my school and calc or non-calc classes do not corelate to MCAT scores. They do however corelate to grades. Taking a physics class that is PBL makes the bigger difference.

 

[RaistlinMajere]

NOT, unless you know that you can get an A and love calc.

 

[lorelei]

I have to say take the calc-based physics. You will understand WHY rather than just plug-n-chug. And some school require calc-based. Remember, you're going into a career where the whole question is "WHY does it work" and "WHY DOESN'T it work?" So why take courses that won't help you think that way? I took calc-based physics, and let me tell you the folks in algebra-based classes were SO lost! They had no idea WHY anything did anything else - they just memorized formulas. At least with calc-based if you forget what to do, you can derive it and figure it out.

This is what I think. If you are fine with memorizing, take algebra-based. If you want to understand, and are fine with being challenged more, take calculus-based. No, I didn't use any calculus on the MCAT. But because I understood the concepts when I took physics, I hardly had to review at all, and I didn't memorize very many formulas.

 

[SailCrazy]

Harvard for one requires calc based physics.

I believe that is a commonly spread (inaccurate) rumor. Calc-based Physics is required for HST...

http://www.hms.harvard.edu/admissions/html/requirements.html

"Physics
One full year.
Calculus-based physics for HST applicants. AP credit which enables a student to take an upper level course may be used to fulfill one semester of this requirement"

"Students may apply to the HST program or the New Pathway program, or to both."

 

[hnbui]

I believe that is a commonly spread (inaccurate) rumor. Calc-based Physics is required for HST...

http://www.hms.harvard.edu/admissions/html/requirements.html

"Physics
One full year.
Calculus-based physics for HST applicants. AP credit which enables a student to take an upper level course may be used to fulfill one semester of this requirement"

"Students may apply to the HST program or the New Pathway program, or to both."

what is hst and new pathway?

 

[SailCrazy]

what is hst and new pathway?

From http://www.hms.harvard.edu/admissions/html/faqs.html

"The New Pathway program places emphasis on the patient-doctor relationship, the social context and problems of modern medicine and health care, and the extraordinary prospects created by the progress in biological sciences. The New Pathway curriculum uses a problem-based approach that emphasizes small-group tutorials and self-directed learning, complemented by laboratories, conferences, and lectures."

"The HST MD program is oriented towards students with a declared interest in a career in biomedical research or a strong interest and background in physical or molecular science. The HST curriculum is designed to emphasize basic and quantitative understanding of modern biomedical sciences and pathophysiologic processes and a fundamental approach to important concepts in modern biology and biotechnology."

 

[hnbui]

From http://www.hms.harvard.edu/admissions/html/faqs.html

"The New Pathway program places emphasis on the patient-doctor relationship, the social context and problems of modern medicine and health care, and the extraordinary prospects created by the progress in biological sciences. The New Pathway curriculum uses a problem-based approach that emphasizes small-group tutorials and self-directed learning, complemented by laboratories, conferences, and lectures."

"The HST MD program is oriented towards students with a declared interest in a career in biomedical research or a strong interest and background in physical or molecular science. The HST curriculum is designed to emphasize basic and quantitative understanding of modern biomedical sciences and pathophysiologic processes and a fundamental approach to important concepts in modern biology and biotechnology."

so basically if i wish to be an emergency medicine physician, i need not take cal-based physics to apply to harvard?