PI: "Can I work in your research lab?" (Is interest enough, if no experience or knowledge?)

[Gauss44]

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Should I have knowledge or experience before asking a PI if I can work in his/her research lab?

Example of what I mean:
On the one hand, let's say I have taken a year of immunology, so I would feel comfortable asking most PI's if I could work in their immunology research lab.

On the other hand, let's say I have NOT taken any classes in endocrinology, (and am not a science major)... Should I be in the least bit hesitant to ask a PI to do research in their endocrinology lab (due to lack of knowledge/experience with endocrinology)?

My concern is that I could get a position, but then end up knowing too little to be of any use. Is it possible (or likely) to get a position in a research lab, and then just struggle and struggle until you figure out that your background knowledge is just too little to do your job?

 

[Mansamusa]

You can just read...

The not majoring in science might make things a little difficult, but no PI is going to expect you to have in depth knowledge. And if you've never done research before, you will not be in a position of creating projects- you will just be doing what they tell you to do and no one will be consulting you for your knowledge. They care 1000x more what techniques you can do rather than what classes you took

Then you go off and teach yourself the literature, impress them, and slowly work towards getting independence.

Research is hyperfocused and you don't need to know everything. You just need to know about the stuff you are working on.

 

[JustAPhD]

Everyone's got to start somewhere, people aren't born with research experience. 😛

However, as Mansamusa touched upon, not being a science major may/will hurt your chances of a PI taking you on especially if it's a paid position. This is slightly dependent on your actual major, for example I (read: N=1) for one would be more inclined to let a math/engineering major into the lab over a history/humanities major.

You may find yourself having to volunteer at first in order to gain the experience, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sure it would be nice to be paid, but it's all about having your foot in the door. Once you do find a lab, read read read. Read as much primary literature that you can find. The PI's past papers will be a good starting point unless you'll need to read background info in order to be able to understand them.

Don't worry, it'll be slow at first, and you will mess up (most likely multiple times). It's to be expected. You won't get thrown into the fire.

 

[typhoonegator]

Speaking as a PI that takes students, interest can definitely be enough, but you have to at least have done your homework on what we do specifically. You can't just start at the top of the alphabet and start calling PIs and asking to join their lab. Go to Pubmed, learn what they do, and make sure you justify to them why you are specifically targeting their lab. That will get them more invested in you right away.

Otherwise the alarm bells start going off right away that you just want to be a glass washer to the stars in order to get a LoR from Big Name Scientist at Big Name University. I don't have time for those people, and most labs don't. Honestly, you don't need a ton of prerequisite base knowledge because a surprising amount of science isn't particularly portable across labs, and everyone has to start somewhere. And honestly you could have a masters degree in immunology and I still wouldn't feel like you could jump into an immunology lab without direct supervision.

Most students are not particularly "useful" in the lab, and that's not why we take them on. It's part of the process of having an academic lab. Sure, if you're applying for a paid position then there may be an expectation that you know how to plate, or prep gels, or make reagents, or sac mice, or whatever. But even then they're going to show you the ropes before they throw you into the deep end of the pool.

Now, as a volunteer, you get what you pay for, as they say. I take volunteers every summer. They definitely help to advance projects, but the expectation that I have going in is that it's my job to help them more than they help me (and my post-docs, fellows, etc.). It's part of the social contract of having an academic university laboratory. You should be looking for a lab with a track record of helping volunteers meet their goals, either through getting posters and publications, good LoRs that lead to material results (i.e. acceptances), or a paid position in that or another lab. Good PIs really do look out for their people, and at this stage in your career that is really priceless. As a post-doc, you can think about joining a malignant lab because there may be some upsides from a pedigree or exposure perspective and you'll be more enfranchised to speak for yourself at that point, but now is the time to seek out a nurturing and incubating lab experience, of which there are plenty out there if you pay attention.

 

[Gauss44]

...You should be looking for a lab with a track record of helping volunteers meet their goals, either through getting posters and publications, good LoRs that lead to material results (i.e. acceptances), or a paid position in that or another lab. Good PIs really do look out for their people, and at this stage in your career that is really priceless. As a post-doc, you can think about joining a malignant lab because there may be some upsides from a pedigree or exposure perspective and you'll be more enfranchised to speak for yourself at that point, but now is the time to seek out a nurturing and incubating lab experience, of which there are plenty out there if you pay attention.

How can one identify a lab like that? This would be ideal.

At this stage, I am having difficulty figuring out who PIs in my area are. I would especially like to find a PI who is a good mentor, if anyone knows how to figure out who is a good mentor? (Common sense would tell me word of mouth, but I very rarely come across people who know these things.)

 

[JustAPhD]

How can one identify a lab like that? This would be ideal.

At this stage, I am having difficulty figuring out who PIs in my area are. I would especially like to find a PI who is a good mentor, if anyone knows how to figure out who is a good mentor? (Common sense would tell me word of mouth, but I very rarely come across people who know these things.)

Some labs maintain a webpage that has a list of alumni and what they are doing now/when they left the lab. As for finding PIs, this should be listed on your institution's website in their respected departments.

 

[Mansamusa]

How can one identify a lab like that? This would be ideal.

At this stage, I am having difficulty figuring out who PIs in my area are. I would especially like to find a PI who is a good mentor, if anyone knows how to figure out who is a good mentor? (Common sense would tell me word of mouth, but I very rarely come across people who know these things.)

Looking back on undergrad, I would also say to look for a PI who wants to help you, but doesn't expect too much from you (has a reasonable understanding that you are learning)

I was bad at choosing labs and one PI used me as if I were a fully trained employee and would expect me to be as productive as someone trained. He likewise expected too much from all the other people in the lab. The lab had 11 people when I was there. I went back to visit some grad students and the lab is now 3 people and a couple grad students quit in the middle of their PhD because they disliked working with the PI so much.

My current PI cares about helping us. Whenever he gets distracted by too much grant writing he takes us out to make up for not being available, etc. All the lab techs come in for free on some weekends because we actually care about not getting stuff done.

A lab that bonds will give you the educational support you need. Toxic labs will make you despise research

(And a lab that has a lot of undergrads all at once is probably using the undergrads for cheap labor and not to teach them. You want a lab with more grad students because grad students know where the good PIs are)

 

[Smoove]

I agree with the poster above, the labs with more grad students and very little undergrads have turned out to be great experiences for me.

I started in an engineering lab freshman year (I knew nothing about the subject at hand and was honest in my email, all I had was great interest in learning about it). This turned out to be the best experience of my undergrad and I might not have gotten into med school without it.

Granted I was a work study student, so the payment didn't come from the lab so they had nothing to lose

 

[eteshoe]

The order I like to use:
PI Webpage -> pubmed abstract(s) -> wikipedia (background) -> review article(s) -> primary literature from the PI (1-2 recent papers)

 

[Goro]

Just my two cents; your mileage may vary.

Unlike my learned colleague Typhoon, I've learned the hard way that pre-meds with no lab hands are not worth the trouble. They spend the entire time in the lab trying to learn how to make solutions or handle a micropipettor

I suspect that you'll simply have to ask around at enough labs, and you might land something. IIRC, you're in Boston? Plenty of labs there!

Even if you start out by merely being a dish/glass washer, you can ask for more responsibility. I have a friend who got her PhD by starting out as a humble glass washer.

IF you can take a hand-on, wet lab course (like, say Molecular Biology, Microbiology, or Biochem), the skills you learn will be worth it.

Should I have knowledge or experience before asking a PI if I can work in his/her research lab?

Example of what I mean:
On the one hand, let's say I have taken a year of immunology, so I would feel comfortable asking most PI's if I could work in their immunology research lab.

On the other hand, let's say I have NOT taken any classes in endocrinology, (and am not a science major)... Should I be in the least bit hesitant to ask a PI to do research in their endocrinology lab (due to lack of knowledge/experience with endocrinology)?

My concern is that I could get a position, but then end up knowing too little to be of any use. Is it possible (or likely) to get a position in a research lab, and then just struggle and struggle until you figure out that your background knowledge is just too little to do your job?

 

[ChrisMack390]

Some labs accept volunteers, and some simply do not. As an undergrad with minimal experience, it is really a numbers game more than anything else.

 

[RedStar7]

This is just my experience as someone who recently (within the last year) got into a research lab with minimal advanced coursework. Usually as freshmen or sophomores looking for research, the classes most have taken are only up to intro bio/chem and orgo. So yea having genetics or immunology or similar coursework might help for most labs but its definitely not a prerequisite to joining a lab. You learn a lot, experimentally and theoretically, after you join a lab. I haven't done enough research to talk about how to get to a poster/publication (although I certainly will attempt to get to that point) but from what I have seen is that one should always seek to learn the protocols as well as the theory behind the protocols. Basically don't just be a protocol master but also be someone that learns what each protocol is for and essentially builds their own "toolbox" to approach further questions/issues in their lab.

I agree with other posters that labs are usually hyper focused and usually if one has some scientific aptitude (I assume most premeds are in this category), you can essentially learn all the relevant material for your lab after joining. This was especially true for me as I joined a lab that focused heavily on specifics that I had not learned in my coursework but I was able to learn everything from literature after joining.

 

[westsidestoryz]

Should I have knowledge or experience before asking a PI if I can work in his/her research lab?

Example of what I mean:
On the one hand, let's say I have taken a year of immunology, so I would feel comfortable asking most PI's if I could work in their immunology research lab.

On the other hand, let's say I have NOT taken any classes in endocrinology, (and am not a science major)... Should I be in the least bit hesitant to ask a PI to do research in their endocrinology lab (due to lack of knowledge/experience with endocrinology)?

My concern is that I could get a position, but then end up knowing too little to be of any use. Is it possible (or likely) to get a position in a research lab, and then just struggle and struggle until you figure out that your background knowledge is just too little to do your job?

This was like my situation. I was a business major with little knowledge in science. I emailed a bunch of professors who I thought their research interested me. I read up on their research papers and tried to get point of the research. One professor was nice enough to get me in for an interview and we talked about my past and current plans. He was understanding that I would not readily participate in the research and he expected me to read journals, techniques used in the lab, and bunch of other articles. It was tough work doing all those grunt works but in the end I ended up getting published once and had a great time at the lab.
I say just prepare yourself and know what you are getting yourself into and prepare to work hard. Commitment is important so also prepare to spend time inside the lab.