Plan B?

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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sydoc95

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Can you guys share your Plan B's and comment on mine? Basically, I am Psych BS and Chem BA double major but it will probably end up being a Psyc BS and a neuroscience and chem double minor. I am a rising junior now so my GPA will still change but it might end up around 3.3-3.4. I have no idea what I will get on my MCAT but I hope to apply to medical schools. If I get rejected or med. school is too expensive, I am thinking of doing my masters in Psychology and becoming a Neuro-psychologist. If I don't get into a master's program either...I have no idea what to do! What do you think?
 
I don't think I really had a plan B going in. I acknowledged the fact that there existed a possibility that I would need one, but I didn't actually have one waiting in the wings. I think that if I hadn't been accepted anywhere after two cycles (applying DO the second time in addition to MD), I would have either gone into healthcare consulting or applied to law school.
 
I have an engineering degree, so I'll just apply to whatever may be interesting (and accept whoever responds!). If that's what happens. Fingers crossed it doesn't become an issue.
 
My plan b is if I don't get in after a few cycles to fall back on my degree in pharmacology and toxicology but most likely going to graduate school to get my masters or PhD in it first. A lot of interesting jobs out there for pharmacology and toxicology majors, something I would genuinely enjoy if I'm unable to get into med school.

Let's hope we don't have to use our plan b though.
 
Join the military and after my commitment become an air medical (helicopter, hopefully) pilot.

But as everyone above has said, plan A sounds good too.
 
I think your Plan B is sound. I would probably re-apply after improving my application. If that failed, I would get a roomy cardboard box and live on the street with los gatos.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies. Lets hope we get into what we want!

gannicus89 said:
I think your Plan B is sound. I would probably re-apply after improving my application. If that failed, I would get a roomy cardboard box and live on the street with los gatos.
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Living with cats is indeed a good Plan C!
 
gannicus89 said:
I think your Plan B is sound. I would probably re-apply after improving my application. If that failed, I would get a roomy cardboard box and live on the street with los gatos.
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I'd rather live in Los Gatos than with them!
 
Your plan B sounds fine, but here's to hoping you'll never have to use it!

I don't really have a plan B, honestly. I'm a reapplicant, and I've just completed an SMP, so that was my plan B 😛 I would probably go back to school and do something like a BSN or RN and then eventually either do nurse practitioner or nurse anesthetist. I've also toyed with the idea of getting my MSW and working in either a hospital or prison setting, but as I understand it, that's a lot of work for not a whole lot of pay or thanks.
 
Not sure about plan b. Law school doesn't make a ton of sense for me because if I don't have the numbers to get into any medical school, then I likely won't have the numbers to get into a law school worth CoA. Maybe try to get a job at a startup or a lower tier bank, just something to do until I figure things out.
 
None, Soon I'll be switching out of engineering and will probably switch to biochem, as a rising second-year, because I felt more confident about wanting to pursue a career in medicine. Is this a bit of a gamble? Yes, but I feel like I should not have too much resistance towards my Plan A, so that's why I don't really want to pursue a plan B.

Now I just realized, if I fail my MCAT, I'm toast 🙁
 
gyngyn said:
I'd rather live in Los Gatos than with them!
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Use to live in Mt View, just down the expressway from Los Gatos. What a lovely place. Now in the midwest - - it has its charms, but not the Bay Area.
Could probably never afford to live in Los Gatos anyway.
 
Rainbow Zebra said:
Use to live in Mt View, just down the expressway from Los Gatos. What a lovely place. Now in the midwest - - it has its charms, but not the Bay Area.
Could probably never afford to live in Los Gatos anyway.
Click to expand...
That makes two of us.
 
sydoc95 said:
Can you guys share your Plan B's and comment on mine? Basically, I am Psych BS and Chem BA double major but it will probably end up being a Psyc BS and a neuroscience and chem double minor. I am a rising junior now so my GPA will still change but it might end up around 3.3-3.4. I have no idea what I will get on my MCAT but I hope to apply to medical schools. If I get rejected or med. school is too expensive, I am thinking of doing my masters in Psychology and becoming a Neuro-psychologist. If I don't get into a master's program either...I have no idea what to do! What do you think?
Click to expand...


Personally, I would never be able to get into/through medical school and work as a medical professional if I simply looked at medicine as the primary candidate of several potential careers. It takes far too much time, energy, and dedication to be anything but my only option. That's just me though.

If this is really what you want to do, there is nothing standing in your way. Rejection and financial burdens are experienced by most medical school applicants/students regardless of how competitive. In all honesty, it may be prudent to think about how badly you want to be in medicine if you would go to plan B given an initial rejection. Reapplying is cake in the grand scheme of things and student loans will cover your cost of living/tuition. Really buckle down and start making As in your classes. When the MCAT rolls around, give it your best possible effort and don't take it until you are confident of obtaining a score you want. If you really kill your remaining undergrad career and MCAT, you may be able to avoid a one year masters that many people have to go through before getting in. There is no gamble here if you are dedicated to your cause.
 
theriomorphos said:
When you don't know what to do, you go to the moles....My chemistry professor & mentor 🙂 😀
My plan A is to become a doctor. My plan B is to become a doctor. My plan raised to the nth power is to become a doctor.

My belief is that when you have second plans ( plan B ) you might work hard towards plan A but you will never go an extra mile to accomplish it when the going gets really tough. This is because you have already entertained the idea of plan b. ( fall back plan ). A singular plan with incredible amount of passion, handwork, determination, dedication, staunch belief, an unwavering tunnel vision and with god's grace ( am a believer 🙂 ) can help you achieve the impossible. Good luck.
Click to expand...
The development of an alternate plan is a sign of maturity and adaptability.
These are the characteristics of a successful physician.

No good surgeon goes into a case with only "Plan A."
 
theriomorphos said:
When you don't know what to do, you go to the moles....My chemistry professor & mentor 🙂 😀
My plan A is to become a doctor. My plan B is to become a doctor. My plan raised to the nth power is to become a doctor.

My belief is that when you have second plans ( plan B ) you might work hard towards plan A but you will never go an extra mile to accomplish it when the going gets really tough. This is because you have already entertained the idea of plan b. ( fall back plan ). A singular plan with incredible amount of passion, handwork, determination, dedication, staunch belief, an unwavering tunnel vision and with god's grace ( am a believer 🙂 ) can help you achieve the impossible. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You can only get so far in this field without being completely confident in both your career choice and your ability to get there. The only legitimate obstacles are internal.
 
sydoc95 said:
Can you guys share your Plan B's and comment on mine? Basically, I am Psych BS and Chem BA double major but it will probably end up being a Psyc BS and a neuroscience and chem double minor. I am a rising junior now so my GPA will still change but it might end up around 3.3-3.4. I have no idea what I will get on my MCAT but I hope to apply to medical schools. If I get rejected or med. school is too expensive, I am thinking of doing my masters in Psychology and becoming a Neuro-psychologist. If I don't get into a master's program either...I have no idea what to do! What do you think?
Click to expand...


What do you mean by "rising junior" and how is this different from just a "junior"?
 
gyngyn said:
The development of an alternate plan is a sign of maturity and adaptability.
These are the characteristics of a successful physician.

No good surgeon goes into a case with only "Plan A."
Click to expand...

Performing surgery and choosing a life path are very, very different things. A surgeon must also be confident in his ability and resolute to do his very best right? No good surgeon became so without a powerful intent.
 
Afp0731 said:
Performing surgery and choosing a life path are very, very different things. A surgeon must also be confident and in his ability and resolute to do his very best right? No good surgeon became so without a powerful intent.
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I've done both things.
This is why I recommend the robust development of alternative plans.
It is a sign of strength, not weakness.
 
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gyngyn said:
I done both things.
This is why I recommend the robust development of alternative plans.
Click to expand...

Considering you became a surgeon, you obviously had/have the confidence and work ethic needed to materialize your goals without having to fall back on plan B due to lack of effort. My interpretation of the OP was that he considered a rejection a death sentence rather than a manageable obstacle. Your plan Bs stem from very different thoughts. Also, a surgeon must surely know understand the importance of being able to handle an initial failure gracefully?
 
Afp0731 said:
Considering you became a surgeon, you obviously had/have the confidence and work ethic needed to materialize your goals without having to fall back on plan B due to lack of effort. My interpretation of the OP was that he considered a rejection a death sentence rather than a manageable obstacle. Your plan Bs stem from very different thoughts. Also, a surgeon must surely know understand the importance of being able to handle an initial failure gracefully?
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Contingency plans are essential. The lack of a back up plan is a recipe for failure.

The idea that having a "Plan B" predisposes to failure is the impression I hope to dispel.
 
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gyngyn said:
Contingency plans are essential. The lack of a back up plan is a recipe for failure.

The idea that having a "Plan B" predisposes to failure is the impression I hope to dispel.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, you are correct and I am not arguing against that. I am referring to why the OP has a plan B rather than whether a plan B is intrinsically bad or good. Medical school re-applicants are a dime a dozen in many medical school classes. Can you honestly say that giving up on medicine given an initial rejection is reflective of a successful mentality in that field? A backup plan in surgery is a different means to the same end. It is an opposition to giving up. I feel like the surgery reference would be more relevant if we were talking about strengthening one's app with a grad degree before applying.
 
Rainbow Zebra said:
Use to live in Mt View, just down the expressway from Los Gatos. What a lovely place. Now in the midwest - - it has its charms, but not the Bay Area.
Could probably never afford to live in Los Gatos anyway.
Click to expand...

Everything is more charming than the Midwest.
 
gyngyn said:
For many, "giving up" is the better choice. This is not for everyone.
Click to expand...

Lol really? So unless you skate through without a hiccup, you should abandon medicine. Very thoughtful and constructive advice for the OP..

The first time I applied, I interviewed at my school of choice but was rejected. I followed up and was told that they wanted to see me do more clinically relevant and hands one volunteer work for the next year. My EC's until that point involved a ton of leadership in university philanthropy organizations and extensive shadowing experience. This particular dean didn't care for that. Your advice to me would have been to give up?
 
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Afp0731 said:
Lol really? So unless you skate through without a hiccup, you should abandon medicine. Very thoughtful and constructive advice for the OP..
Click to expand...
There is damage to those who persist when all evidence indicates the wisdom of an alternate path.
I see this every year, and it is very sad.
I don't know what the future holds for OP but "medicine at all cost" is not a kind recommendation, either.
 
Afp0731 said:
The first time I applied, I interviewed at my school of choice but was rejected. I followed up and was told that they wanted to see me do more clinically relevant and hands one volunteer work for the next year. My EC's until that point involved a ton of leadership in university philanthropy organizations and extensive shadowing experience. This particular dean didn't care for that. Your advice to me would have been to give up?
Click to expand...
Contingency plans vary by the individual.
 
gyngyn said:
There is damage to those who persist when all evidence indicates the wisdom of an alternate path.
I see this every year, and it is very sad.
I don't know what the future holds for OP but "medicine at all cost" is not a kind recommendation, either.
Click to expand...

Are you trolling? OP has not finished junior year, taken the MCAT, or started to apply. There is no evidence to suggest he/she should chose an alternate path yet. No one is advocating "medicine at all cost." We are trying to assess what the cost is and what the OP is willing to put forth.
 
gyngyn is an Adcom and faculty member at a major MD school West of the Rockies.

A Plan B isn't "give up med school after only one failed app cycle"...it''s "Do something else when you realize that you're NOT going to get into med school, ever." A career in Medicine is not for everyone.

My colleagues and I consider the lack of a Plan B to be a sign of immaturity, as evidenced by several posts in this thread. Determination is a NOT a substitute for competence, and having a Plan B is a not a sign of lack of commitment either. We don't expect people to give up after one try at med school (unless they're completely incompetent), but we DO expect reapplicants to improve, as you did.

If therios gave me that answer (above) to "what's your Plan B?", I and every one of my Adcom colleagues would reject him/her.

Afp0731 said:
Are you trolling? OP has not finished junior year, taken the MCAT, or started to apply. There is no evidence to suggest he/she should chose an alternate path yet. No one is advocating "medicine at all cost." We are trying to assess what the cost is and what the OP is willing to put forth.
Click to expand...
 
Ahh..in this I agree. We don't want applicants who are easily discouraged....resilience is a good thing.

But there are people who just don't know when to quit when they should. The mere fact of having a Plan B simply shows good judgement.


theriomorphos said:
Goro! I don't reject the idea of an alternate plan, its just that I have seen so many people giving up on their dreams in favor of these alternate plans, where if they had stuck their guns they would have absolutely achieved their target.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
gyngyn is an Adcom and faculty member at a major MD school West of the Rockies.

A Plan B isn't "give up med school after only one failed app cycle"...it''s "Do something else when you realize that you're NOT going to get into med school, ever." A career in Medicine is not for everyone.

My colleagues and I consider the lack of a Plan B to be a sign of immaturity, as evidenced by several posts in this thread. Determination is a NOT a substitute for competence, and having a Plan B is a not a sign of lack of commitment either. We don't expect people to give up after one try at med school (unless they're completely incompetent), but we DO expect reapplicants to improve, as you did.

If therios gave me that answer (above) to "what's your Plan B?", I and every one of my Adcom colleagues would reject him/her.
Click to expand...

Gyngyn is also not contributing relevant, constructive feedback to the OP.

I agree that a plan B should not be "give up med school after only one failed app cycle." This was my original point because the OP made it sound like that was his attitude towards a career in medicine. Realistically, almost anyone can get into medical school somewhere if they are willing to do what it takes regardless of how long or intense that task may be. "Not going to get into medical school ever" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You are implying that a career in medicine is not for some folks because they simply cant get in(which would take a very limited mental capacity and a good degree of recklessness).

Interesting. No disrespect, but I find that mentality to also be immature. Some people have the introspection to understand what fulfills them in life and actively seek out the best ways to embody those things in a career. Personally, I didn't feel the need to have a concrete plan B because so many different experiences collectively confirmed that medicine would be professionally fulfilling and gratifying in a way that none of my other career interests could be. I wasn't afraid of having to find another career due to failure because I trusted my hard work and persistence. I don't recall saying determination is a substitute for competence and I do not agree with that sentiment at all. However, competence is also not a substitute for determination.

In terms of applicant evaluation, You and Gyngyn do not much reflect the interviewers/adcom members I encountered at different schools. I wouldn't quite expect everyone to collectively agree on subjective ideas but I have a hard time believing that "all" of your colleagues would reject someone for such broad statement without an understanding of why the applicant feels so. I can understand that maybe a plan B shows good judgment but does a lack of one truly show bad judgment?
 
theriomorphos said:
I certainly agree with you but you are discussing this in a much broader context.

Situation 1 : A person does not seem to be getting along with his wife of several years. Plan A is to figure out what they can do to save the marriage an alternate plan B is divorce. Unless the situation is really extreme, plan b is certainly not applicable in this context.

Situation 2 : An intelligent, compassionate and a caring individual aspires to become a doctor someday. Unfortunately he is poor in mathematics. This cause him to get less than stellar grades in math related subjects like chemistry & physics. In this situation, plan A is trying to figure out what they can do to improve the situation. Plan B, which most people would recommend would be " Dude, perhaps you aren't meant to become a doctor". Look for plan B. I have witnessed this on a few occasions.

Now in a different context : An individual who does not have the attitude or the aptitude decides to pursue medicine, due to parental pressure or the aspirations of harnessing a large fortune and becoming a millionaire. In this case, a plan B would be an appropriate suggestion.

Most of us use alternate plan in our daily lives. Right from choosing an alternate path on the roads to reach our destination on time. Approaching a problem from an alternate perspective to even using this strategy when buying groceries ( need to buy almonds for a recipe but the store does not have it, second option would be buying walnuts or pecans instead of driving far to get almonds ). In a professional setting being flexible, open to alternative ideas is an absolutely important trait. I certainly get that.

Unfortunately, on several occasions, I have seen this idea of an alternate plan becoming a hindrance rather than a help, especially in a context such as OP's situation. It prevents you from going that extra mile which separates the winners from the losers and which makes things perceived as unattainable to be attainable.
Click to expand...

I too have seen people fall short with this mentality. I have been guilty of it myself at times.
 
BlueCircle said:
What do you mean by "rising junior" and how is this different from just a "junior"?
Click to expand...
Basically, it is still summer right so till fall starts I am a rising junior and once fall starts I am a junior.
 
Afp0731 said:
Personally, I would never be able to get into/through medical school and work as a medical professional if I simply looked at medicine as the primary candidate of several potential careers. It takes far too much time, energy, and dedication to be anything but my only option. That's just me though.

If this is really what you want to do, there is nothing standing in your way. Rejection and financial burdens are experienced by most medical school applicants/students regardless of how competitive. In all honesty, it may be prudent to think about how badly you want to be in medicine if you would go to plan B given an initial rejection. Reapplying is cake in the grand scheme of things and student loans will cover your cost of living/tuition. Really buckle down and start making As in your classes. When the MCAT rolls around, give it your best possible effort and don't take it until you are confident of obtaining a score you want. If you really kill your remaining undergrad career and MCAT, you may be able to avoid a one year masters that many people have to go through before getting in. There is no gamble here if you are dedicated to your cause.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your words. I really do want to get in but personally if I fail any goal I won't focus on it and get unhappy over it. I will try to move on and work for something else though I would try my hardest during the attempt. I am focusing on my education and trying to make all A's. I hope that the medical sxhools will recognize that though I made a few bad choices in the past that resulted in the low GPA, I can and will focus and do well.

As far as reapplying for medical schools, this is an option that I haven't really thought of or considered but I will think about it. Thanks!
 
Wow guys very serious about the merits about plan B! Let me try to tell you what I was thinking before you "discuss" about what I was thinking okay? So, I will be the first person to tell that I honestly never even recognized the idea that you could reapply. That thought never occurred to me but thanks to you guys I will think about it. My philosophy is basically work your best and hardest towards anything and if you don't get you go cry a little tears about it and move on. There is no point in thinking about stuff you haven't achieved. Obviously, you need to learn from your mistakes (if that was the reason you failed) but it is a waste of time to focus on or worry about it - find a better or different opportunity. I love medicine and it is my passion to become a doctor but I recognize that it may not work and I will make sure that I have a back-up plan. Also, being rejected from medical school and not reapplying is not giving up a career in medicine...it is giving up a career in being a doctor (which I may or may not do). There are thousands of other careers in medicine or related fields.
 
You don't have to teach these people, we do. Also, interviewers are trained to be polite and encouraging. The knives come out after the Adcom meeting starts.

What we're trying to get across is that:

A) it is prudent to have a Plan B,
B) It's not an admission of failure, superficiality or lack of dedication to have a Plan B
C) all applicants should enter this process with the idea that they will never be doctors (which IS the fate of the majority of applicants).
D) The mindset of "I'm going to keep on applying until I'm 60" is not dedication, it's immaturity, if not outright foolishness.
E) While people do improve or reinvent themselves, some people simply can't or won't
F) candidates who display thoughtfulness and think about what they're getting into, and have contingencies, are the kinds of people we want to accept.


"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

In terms of applicant evaluation, You and Gyngyn do not much reflect the interviewers/adcom members I encountered at different schools. I wouldn't quite expect everyone to collectively agree on subjective ideas but I have a hard time believing that "all" of your colleagues would reject someone for such broad statement without an understanding of why the applicant feels so. I can understand that maybe a plan B shows good judgment but does a lack of one truly show bad judgment?[/QUOTE]
 
Is it really true that the majority of applicants will never be doctors if 39% of applicants matriculate MD and some percentage of that 61% that do not get into MD matriculate DO? The exact numbers are hard to gauge, but I'm guessing that at least 11.1% of the MD applicant pool would end up matriculating DO, creating a 50.1% majority.
 
Just say no, Doug.


Doug Underhill said:
Is it really true that the majority of applicants will never be doctors if 39% of applicants matriculate MD and some percentage of that 61% that do not get into MD matriculate DO? The exact numbers are hard to gauge, but I'm guessing that at least 11.1% of the MD applicant pool would end up matriculating DO, creating a 50.1% majority.
Click to expand...
 
Afp0731 said:
Lol really? So unless you skate through without a hiccup, you should abandon medicine. Very thoughtful and constructive advice for the OP..

The first time I applied, I interviewed at my school of choice but was rejected. I followed up and was told that they wanted to see me do more clinically relevant and hands one volunteer work for the next year. My EC's until that point involved a ton of leadership in university philanthropy organizations and extensive shadowing experience. This particular dean didn't care for that. Your advice to me would have been to give up?
Click to expand...
Did the philanthropy consist of mission trips?
 
I'm a biopsychology major (but thinking about changing to medical anthro or disease biology). My plan b if I don't get in the first time around is to get my MPH and do some work internationally around health awareness and preventative health care, hopefully working in clinics and hospitals as well. I'd then reapply next time around.

However, if I didn't get in the second time, I'd probably apply for a position at the WHO or the CDC to do health advocacy for poverty stricken urban and rural areas.

Hope this helps!
 
If asked during an interview about our "plan B" and we have a solid answer, is that a good thing? Or could it be viewed negatively in the light that medicine may not be our ultimate goal?

Ex: I would join the military, and upon finishing my commitment, would fly for an air medical helicopter service.
 
frosted_flake said:
If asked during an interview about our "plan B" and we have a solid answer, is that a good thing? Or could it be viewed negatively in the light that medicine may not be our ultimate goal?

Ex: I would join the military, and upon finishing my commitment, would fly for an air medical helicopter service.
Click to expand...
A person who has thoughtful contingencies is adaptable and mature.
 
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