Plan B

[echod]

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I'm wondering approximately what percentage of derm applicants apply to two specialties as a backup plan? Did you notice any adverse effects personally? Thanks a lot!

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

According to Charting Outcomes in the Match, chart D-2, approximately 80% of those who had dermatology at the top of their rank lists also ranked at least one other specialty. However, I think this also includes those who put TY (but not prelim) programs in their primary list.

 

[Dermguy]

According to Charting Outcomes in the Match, chart D-2, approximately 80% of those who had dermatology at the top of their rank lists also ranked at least one other specialty. However, I think this also includes those who put TY (but not prelim) programs in their primary list.

I think it includes prelim programs too just because that seems like the right percentage of people who include a prelim place or two at the end of their primary rank list. I can easily imagine 20% of people failing to put a prelim/TY spot at the end of their primary rank list.

Does anybody know for sure? Maybe Iwy Em Hotem knows this for sure and I'm talking out of my @$$?

 

[echod]

I think it includes prelim programs too just because that seems like the right percentage of people who include a prelim place or two at the end of their primary rank list. I can easily imagine 20% of people failing to put a prelim/TY spot at the end of their primary rank list.

Does anybody know for sure? Maybe Iwy Em Hotem knows this for sure and I'm talking out of my @$$?

Does derm require a preliminary or transitional year? Why do derm applicants want to do a preliminary or transitional year? What happens if one matches for the preliminary or transitional but not for derm or can that happen at all?

 

[Dermguy]

Does derm require a preliminary or transitional year? Why do derm applicants want to do a preliminary or transitional year? What happens if one matches for the preliminary or transitional but not for derm or can that happen at all?

This is a very good question, and it's something that creates a lot of confusion for applicants.

Either is ok. Typically prelim medicine & surgery years are harder than TYs, but that's not always the case. There are a few very cush medicine prelims around and a few tougher TYs. Generally speaking it's more impressive to programs to do an "academic" medicine prelim position, but usually they don't have any say in it unless you don't match in derm but get a cush TY spot.

Here's how it works in the match: You have a primary list and supplemental lists. In the primary list you rank all the Derm programs and then you "attach" a supplemental list to each Derm program, and it's on that list that your list TYs and/or prelims. In theory you could attach a different list to each Derm program you rank, but most people just make one or two supplemental lists.

At the end of the primary list many people rank one or more TY or prelim medicine programs. That way if you fail to match in derm at least you have an internship and don't have to scramble for that. Thus, ranking a few prelim/ty spots at the end of your program is a VERY good idea, and I encourage people to rank an academic prelim medicine program at the end of their primary rank list because it will look better when you reapply for derm. After all, it doesn't hurt anything to rank a few places to save yourself a lot of potential agony. Even if you have a lot of Derm positions you never know.

 

[DermMatch]

Agree with Dermguy. If you don't match, and then you try to rematch with a transitional year, you look like a lazy butt.

 

[Dermguy]

Agree with Dermguy. If you don't match, and then you try to rematch with a transitional year, you look like a lazy butt.

It's true. I had several people on the interview trail try to "feel me out" for what type of prelim spot I was applying for. I matched at a medium-difficulty nice prelim medicine spot with a nice-sounding name, and when the PD at my future Derm residency called me he asked where I matched for internship. He sounded glad--maybe even a little relieved--to hear that I matched at a medicine program with a good name. Kind of funny, huh? I wonder what he would have said if I told him I matched at one of those TYs where they try to get you to the golf course as much as possible and you NEVER take call. Believe me, there are a few out there.

 

[IzzyMD09]

What are some good prelim programs to apply too, is there a list somewhere of these academic prelims, what is an academic prelim, is it just one that consists of more research time and less clinical time?

Also, I dont have a plan B, I dont plan of having a plan B....there is honestly no other field I would ever consider doing, especially not internal medicine, which I feel has probably become, or will become under the new "Change We can Believe In" the worst possible medical career choice ever!

Am I doing myself a disservice?

Izzy

 

[Long Dong]

What are some good prelim programs to apply too, is there a list somewhere of these academic prelims, what is an academic prelim, is it just one that consists of more research time and less clinical time?

Also, I dont have a plan B, I dont plan of having a plan B....there is honestly no other field I would ever consider doing, especially not internal medicine, which I feel has probably become, or will become under the new "Change We can Believe In" the worst possible medical career choice ever!

Am I doing myself a disservice?

Izzy

Your plan B would then be to do research then reapply?

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

I think it includes prelim programs too just because that seems like the right percentage of people who include a prelim place or two at the end of their primary rank list. I can easily imagine 20% of people failing to put a prelim/TY spot at the end of their primary rank list.

Does anybody know for sure? Maybe Iwy Em Hotem knows this for sure and I'm talking out of my @$$?

Table 1, page 2, states that preferred specialities include TY but not preliminary programs. I don't know for sure whether the number of programs ranked are only preferred programs or all programs though.

I agree that 80% seems high. From the same source, 123/131 people who ranked 9+ derm programs matched, so I think it must include all prelim programs.

 

[Dermguy]

Table 1, page 2, states that preferred specialities include TY but not preliminary programs. I don't know for sure whether the number of programs ranked are only preferred programs or all programs though.

I agree that 80% seems high. From the same source, 123/131 people who ranked 9+ derm programs matched, so I think it must include all prelim programs.

Yeah, I've always been a little confused about those stats. Thanks for trying to clarify this.

 

[Dermguy]

What are some good prelim programs to apply too, is there a list somewhere of these academic prelims, what is an academic prelim, is it just one that consists of more research time and less clinical time?

Also, I dont have a plan B, I dont plan of having a plan B....there is honestly no other field I would ever consider doing, especially not internal medicine, which I feel has probably become, or will become under the new "Change We can Believe In" the worst possible medical career choice ever!

Am I doing myself a disservice?

Izzy

As far as I understand it, an "academic" prelim year consists of something university-based as opposed to something in the community. For example, many community hospitals that have residencies will have a fairly cush prelim spot or two available. On the other hand, most of the academic prelim spots I applied to involve lots of intense q3-q5 call with 10+ admissions per intern per call plus cross-cover. That's what I mean by intense, academic setting, and that's what several PDs tried to get me to promise to do. I'm lucky in that I matched for my prelim spot at a place with a good name but it's not that hard. Like I said, my new Derm PD sounded impressed with my prelim spot, but I think he doesn't know that it's kind of an easier prelim year because of the name. There are a few places like that out there, but you have to look around.

 

[echod]

According to Charting Outcomes in the Match, chart D-2, approximately 80% of those who had dermatology at the top of their rank lists also ranked at least one other specialty. However, I think this also includes those who put TY (but not prelim) programs in their primary list.

Judging from chart 5 from the paper that's cited, I would like to guess that ~50% of derm applicants have a backup plan. My reasoning is that both Anesthesia and Derm require a prelim/transitional year, but their % of applicants ranking only one specialty differ by 48%. What can account for the extra 48% of people ranking more than one specialty in derm? Doubts arising from derm's competitiveness maybe?

 

[Dermguy]

Judging from chart 5 from the paper that's cited, I would like to guess that ~50% of derm applicants have a backup plan. My reasoning is that both Anesthesia and Derm require a prelim/transitional year, but their % of applicants ranking only one specialty differ by 48%. What can account for the extra 48% of people ranking more than one specialty in derm? Doubts arising from derm's competitiveness maybe?

Lots of anesthesia programs are categorical so I don't really think that's a fair comparison. Something like radiology would be closer.

 

[N-Surge]

Does derm require a preliminary or transitional year? Why do derm applicants want to do a preliminary or transitional year? What happens if one matches for the preliminary or transitional but not for derm or can that happen at all?

Yes, because it isn't an option. If one matches prelim/TY but not Derm one can apply again the next year for an Advanced Derm spot! =)

Most Derm programs are what are called Advanced. This means they are for the PGY2/3/4 years. PGY1 will be taken up by either a prelim (IM) year or a transitional (mix and match) year... You must apply for both the Derm (PGY2/3/4) spot and the PGY1 spot, unless you have already completed a prelim year or are coming "back to Derm" from another field, e.g. IM.

From what I know, categorical Derm spots are far and few between. In the end even those of us matched into one of these spots does a PGY1 prelim year. I hope this works to my advantage in that I will already be comfortable with the cluster of hospitals I will be working at for the next 3 years in Derm.