Plastics Chances

[DZT]

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Hey everybody,

I have a good mix of honors and high satisfactory grades but just missed AOA b/c I could not get a dean's letter. I have two research articles w/my name on them in basic sciences before med school and did a little research w/o publications in neurosurgery. At my med school, there is no plastics department but there is a ENT guy here who is well known who is also into facial plastics and I'm thinking of doing research w/him.

Do I have a shot at INTEGRATED plastics despite not being AOA. I dont care which integrated spot I get at all; I WILL TAKE ANYTHING UNDER THE SUN. Will taking STEP II and hopefully doing even better on Step II help my chances at getting a spot. Please help with any advice. Right now I know I have a good score lots of fields except for maybe integrated plastics, which is what I really want.

Thank you for all your advice and the best of luck in all your endeavors.

 

[mcindoe]

First and foremost, you're getting a bit carried away with the significance of board scores in the application process. It'll help get you a few more interviews than you would have gotten with a lower score, but the programs will be paying more attention to your letters of rec and clinical performance when they decide who they want in their program. This isn't your first time on this board...you've read the posts, and you should know this by now. I don't know if you really are concerned about your chances given your circumstances or if you were just looking for an opportunity to gloat about your board score. Somehow I feel it's the latter.

Secondly, think a little more before you divulge so much unsolicited information about yourself on these boards. I'm not the only integrated resident reading these boards...and now we all know about how this guy Nick from the University of Buffalo went online to tell everyone his board scores. When programs, including mine, get an application from this guy from the University of Buffalo with a step 1 score of 245, we'll all know it's the same one who posted it for everyone to see on these forums. And what would you think if you were browsing through the pre-med forums and saw some guy post something like "I just got my MCAT scores...13, 15, and 15, but I got a B in chemistry...do I have ANY chance of getting into a good med school despite getting that B?"

I know exactly what you'd think. And that's what we're thinking right now. Don't screw yourself over so early in the game.

 

[novacek88]

First and foremost, you're getting a bit carried away with the significance of board scores in the application process. It'll help get you a few more interviews than you would have gotten with a lower score, but the programs will be paying more attention to your letters of rec and clinical performance when they decide who they want in their program. This isn't your first time on this board...you've read the posts, and you should know this by now. I don't know if you really are concerned about your chances given your circumstances or if you were just looking for an opportunity to gloat about your board score. Somehow I feel it's the latter.

Secondly, think a little more before you divulge so much unsolicited information about yourself on these boards. I'm not the only integrated resident reading these boards...and now we all know about how this guy Nick from the University of Buffalo went online to tell everyone his board scores. When programs, including mine, get an application from this guy from the University of Buffalo with a step 1 score of 245, we'll all know it's the same one who posted it for everyone to see on these forums. And what would you think if you were browsing through the pre-med forums and saw some guy post something like "I just got my MCAT scores...13, 15, and 15, but I got a B in chemistry...do I have ANY chance of getting into a good med school despite getting that B?"

I know exactly what you'd think. And that's what we're thinking right now. Don't screw yourself over so early in the game.

Really, you can speak on behalf of everyone here reading his post. Because quite frankly, I thought his question was legitimate while your response was pretty pompous and condescending. You should be glad your identity wasn't revealed here because people will remember that "mcindoe" poster on SDN was a jerk. I agree it isn't wise to divulge your identity on a forum like this but I don't think he was trying to show off. Forums like these are the only places you can ask questions like his. And if you have been around these forums long enough, you will realize everyone asks the "what are my chances" questions. His question was pretty normal, however, your response was quite arrogant. And what's pathetic is you didn't even answer his question. You just hit his hand with a yardstick like a penguin.

In response to Nick, I don't think you have a very good shot because integrated plastics is the most competitive residency at the moment. Your board score is impressive but your lack of AOA will hurt you. With the most competitive fields like dermatology and integrated plastics, giving a program director any way to screen you out will just hurt your chances. I would just aim to match the best categorical surgery program and just be an amazing resident there.

 

[ludakris]

... In response to Nick, I don't think you have a very good shot because integrated plastics is the most competitive residency at the moment. Your board score is impressive but your lack of AOA will hurt you. With the most competitive fields like dermatology and integrated plastics, giving a program director any way to screen you out will just hurt your chances. I would just aim to match the best categorical surgery program and just be an amazing resident there.[/QUOTE]



regarding the previous post..... im about to poop my pants... only AOA people have a "shot" this seems absurd. Possibly true... but i would like to know what the % of non-AOA matches occured last year. please if anyone else who is already in the system can confirm the requirement of AOA, i would love to hear it.

lud

 

[RadOncAnon]

Considering that the OP put the exact same post in the Ortho forum starting it prominently with "I just got a 245/99 on Step 1" . . .

I tend to agree with mcindoe. Seems that the OP is more interested in whoring his score in forums of competitive resdencies.

Look forward to your posting in the RadOnc forum! BTW, don't forget to mention your Step 1 score. 🙄

Added: Nick, don't forget to remove your score from the Ortho forum too!!!

 

[novacek88]

Considering that the OP put the exact same post in the Ortho forum starting it prominently with "I just got a 245/99 on Step 1" . . .

I tend to agree with mcindoe. Seems that the OP is more interested in whoring his score in forums of competitive resdencies.

Look forward to your posting in the RadOnc forum! BTW, don't forget to mention your Step 1 score. 🙄

Added: Nick, don't forget to remove your score from the Ortho forum too!!!

He also mentioned how he was short of AOA and that he only high passed and passed certain course. If his sole intent was to ***** himself, why would he mention those other things. That doesn't make sense. If he was simply trying to show off, don't you think he would just go to the USMLE forum and post his scores and give advice there. He is just trying to get a feel as to where he stands with his numbers. If you are going to criticize someone for doing that then you probably should go after about a thousand other people on this forum who do the same. The only thing this guy is guilty of is his failure to use common sense by divulging his identity when asking these questions.

 

[novacek88]

regarding the previous post..... im about to poop my pants... only AOA people have a "shot" this seems absurd. Possibly true... but i would like to know what the % of non-AOA matches occured last year. please if anyone else who is already in the system can confirm the requirement of AOA, i would love to hear it.

lud.

You might need some Depends because you are about to soil another pair. You are aware that integrated plastics spots are THE most competitive field in medicine at the moment. When I said "most competitive" I meant it.

 

[mcindoe]

Really, you can speak on behalf of everyone here reading his post. Because quite frankly, I thought his question was legitimate while your response was pretty pompous and condescending. You should be glad your identity wasn't revealed here because people will remember that "mcindoe" poster on SDN was a jerk. I agree it isn't wise to divulge your identity on a forum like this but I don't think he was trying to show off. Forums like these are the only places you can ask questions like his. And if you have been around these forums long enough, you will realize everyone asks the "what are my chances" questions. His question was pretty normal, however, your response was quite arrogant. And what's pathetic is you didn't even answer his question. You just hit his hand with a yardstick like a penguin.

I never claimed to speak on behalf of anyone but myself; he solicited feedback and that is what I offered. I'm sorry that you felt my reponse was pompous and condescending; he apparently seems to have found the advice to be helpful, as the original post has since been edited such that the very thing I criticized is no longer there. Though it's never my intention to sound arrogant or condescending, I'd rather risk that perception and give candid, practical advice than to waste yours and everyone else's time by sugar-coating what people want and need to know.

As for my "pathetically" not even answering his question, I believe that what would have been pathetic is if I had answered his question. Unless you're a program director or someone directly involved in selecting candidates, it would be arrogant to presume that you would know the answer to his question. Ironically, you did just that.

 

[jdubya]

The important things to remember here are three fold:
1. never reveal yourself online in one of these things until you match, because you just don't have any idea who is reading.
2. never speak poorly of a place you've been to or have an opinion on unless you know who you are talking with well because you never know who that person knows and those things always leak.
3. a 245 is in like the 90th%ile which means one out of 10 student scored better and there over 1500 better scores in the US this year. Which is EXACTLY why a good board score is only so important.
3b. In the opinion (means you can ignore it if you like) of this resident, a 265 from a jerk is not better than a 215 from a good and genuine, hard working and loyal individual.

 

[DZT]

Hey guys,

Really, thanks for your advice, I REALLY appreciate it. Honestly, for the most part I was not trying to sound like a showoff or anything. I'm a guy who has never done really well on any standardized test. I was not a superstar on the MCAT or the SAT b/c the verbal sections, and I guess I am that guy who gets in by the interview by the skin of his teeth. This board score was really kind of a blessing that hit me, and out of joy I guess I went a little overboard and put it on this post, but not out of arrogance b/c ppl out in SDN land have much higher scores. All in all, I may sound like a jerk for doing that and I feel like an idiot. To be honest, I am undecided b/w Ortho and Plastic and that is why I posted twice.

As for McIndoe, this guys is awesome b/c he's giving it straight to me. Sugar coating sux and hey, if I know the truth now, it helps more than anything. So McIndoe, thanks for kicking my a$$ like that, b/c it most likely will save my a$$ one day...if it is not too late.

Guys, thanks for your advice and the best of luck on all your endeavors.

 

[MedicinePowder]

I never claimed to speak on behalf of anyone but myself; he solicited feedback and that is what I offered. I'm sorry that you felt my reponse was pompous and condescending; he apparently seems to have found the advice to be helpful, as the original post has since been edited such that the very thing I criticized is no longer there. Though it's never my intention to sound arrogant or condescending, I'd rather risk that perception and give candid, practical advice than to waste yours and everyone else's time by sugar-coating what people want and need to know.

As for my "pathetically" not even answering his question, I believe that what would have been pathetic is if I had answered his question. Unless you're a program director or someone directly involved in selecting candidates, it would be arrogant to presume that you would know the answer to his question. Ironically, you did just that.

Dude, honestly, I can only barely hear you--you most be really high up in the clouds or up really high on a horse. Does getting into an intergrated plastics program make you bleed pretentiousness or were u always pretentious?

 

[blocks]

i love the response by the OP..."thank you sir, may I have another?"

 

[USCTex]

You might need some Depends because you are about to soil another pair. You are aware that integrated plastics spots are THE most competitive field in medicine at the moment. When I said "most competitive" I meant it.

I'm far out of my element, make no mistake, but I don't know about, say, and I'm not trying to put figures in your mouth, an 80+% AOA for integrated plastics match.

Integrated plastics is easily the most competitive match. Understanding I don't know what years this figure includes, but I've seen a figure that shows the unmatched:matched ratio is about .88. That's by far the closest to 1 of any program.

However, you gotta believe with a few years in a gen surgery as a backup application, that integrated plastics is less self-selecting than other specialities, i.e. more people decide to "take a shot" at applying for integrated plastics than for other residencies, which may help explain the absurd number of unmatched applicants.

What I'm trying to say is that even if integrated plastics is the toughest match, perhaps it is closer, in terms of applicant stats and AOA status, to other competitive programs than that unmatched:matched ratio would imply.

And onward. Dermatology is, in terms of unmatched:matched ratio, the second most difficult speciality. Self-reported polling of dermatology matchees from the class of 2002 showed AOA rates around 40%.

Certainly slightly down the tier, but still competitive residencies, neurosurgery or ophtha (whose matched stats are released by the SF Match) show a 20 - 30% AOA membership rate for those matched.

Integrated plastics is certain to be more difficult in terms of numbers but I'm not sure I can buy that the % AOA jumps THAT much, to a level that if you're not AOA, you have no chance...which is what your post seems to imply. But I could be completely off base here, it has been known to happen.

 

[Plastikos]

IMO, you cant listen to uber-neurotic med students for your sole source of advice. You will be told unless you are 280/280, AOA, presenting landmark papers at ASPS, etc... you wont get any interviews. All of which is not true. What is true is you dont want to close any doors by poor performances, but if you dont suck at everything there are ways around it.

If you have a decent score (230+), did slightly better than average clinically, meddled in research, are a cool person and therefore get decent LORs you will recieve interviews and have a shot at it.

I certainly didnt go lights out in all categories, actually i think the board score kept me from being screened and only the LORs got me the interview. BTW it also feels exceedingly random who gets interviews, to pretend I know how they do it would be absurd.

Fight ON!!

 

[ms697]

IMO, you cant listen to uber-neurotic med students for your sole source of advice. You will be told unless you are 280/280, AOA, presenting landmark papers at ASPS, etc... you wont get any interviews. All of which is not true. What is true is you dont want to close any doors by poor performances, but if you dont suck at everything there are ways around it.

If you have a decent score (230+), did slightly better than average clinically, meddled in research, are a cool person and therefore get decent LORs you will recieve interviews and have a shot at it.

I certainly didnt go lights out in all categories, actually i think the board score kept me from being screened and only the LORs got me the interview. BTW it also feels exceedingly random who gets interviews, to pretend I know how they do it would be absurd.

Fight ON!!

as a plastics applicant this year, agree with the above 100%. plenty of top programs have turned me down, despite having strong scores and grades. at the end of the day, programs are looking for a mix of determination, smarts, and just a cool personality. and there is no way to predict how they determine that. just keep you hopes up, work hard, try to get some exposure to the field in either clinical or research activities, and network. like business, it is also about who you know.