please don't take this the wrong way...

[m1234d]

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oh, this is the post everyone is dreading, and i am not looking for specifics, and i fear i will be misunderstood....

my question is, how do we go about finding out about programs farther away than our home base? i'm not asking about CHOP, or whatever, I'm not asking for names. I just want a good teaching academic program with decent research support. who do i talk to about this? i tried talking to my dean, and she recommended i talk to someone who notoriously never gets back to students, and to my "mentor" whom i met on day 1 of med school when he stepped out of the OR for 30 seconds. (and what, i might ask, would a colorectal surgeon know about peds residencies anyway?) if i talk to the peds people at my school, do i run the risk of them thinking I'm not interested in my home program? (which I am, but i want to see options)

i have my research mentor, and I will ask her, but I don't want to base everything off one person's perceptions. any recommendations?

 

[oldbearprofessor]

oh, this is the post everyone is dreading, and i am not looking for specifics, and i fear i will be misunderstood....

my question is, how do we go about finding out about programs farther away than our home base? i'm not asking about CHOP, or whatever, I'm not asking for names. I just want a good teaching academic program with decent research support. who do i talk to about this? i tried talking to my dean, and she recommended i talk to someone who notoriously never gets back to students, and to my "mentor" whom i met on day 1 of med school when he stepped out of the OR for 30 seconds. (and what, i might ask, would a colorectal surgeon know about peds residencies anyway?) if i talk to the peds people at my school, do i run the risk of them thinking I'm not interested in my home program? (which I am, but i want to see options)

i have my research mentor, and I will ask her, but I don't want to base everything off one person's perceptions. any recommendations?

This is actually a common and difficult problem for exactly the reason you said. Go snooping around and people think you don't love mom and dad...

Nowadays, the internet is your friend and you can learn a lot from a concerted effort at reading a program's website. Scutwork.com is nearly useless but you can at least go through that. Otherwise, you're going to have to find some local faculty and see what they say. You can also try scanning through here a bit. If you look at the "match" threads you'll see quite a few folks have fessed up to where they are and you can always PM a few and see what you get.

 

[jocg27]

oh, this is the post everyone is dreading, and i am not looking for specifics, and i fear i will be misunderstood....

my question is, how do we go about finding out about programs farther away than our home base? i'm not asking about CHOP, or whatever, I'm not asking for names. I just want a good teaching academic program with decent research support. who do i talk to about this? i tried talking to my dean, and she recommended i talk to someone who notoriously never gets back to students, and to my "mentor" whom i met on day 1 of med school when he stepped out of the OR for 30 seconds. (and what, i might ask, would a colorectal surgeon know about peds residencies anyway?) if i talk to the peds people at my school, do i run the risk of them thinking I'm not interested in my home program? (which I am, but i want to see options)

i have my research mentor, and I will ask her, but I don't want to base everything off one person's perceptions. any recommendations?

lol...interesting...my advisor is a colorectal surgeon as well. I am excited to hear his input on which pediatrics programs I should explore. 😛

 

[jocg27]

This is actually a common and difficult problem for exactly the reason you said. Go snooping around and people think you don't love mom and dad...

.

Honestly though, is this something to worry about? I'm kind of clueless about this kind of playing the game kind of stuff in general...but I don't know that I would have ever thought of it. It seems like anyone who would be worth asking would understand that you are likely to look for information and apply to other places, and would encourage you think about all your options. Or do people at your home program expect you to only want to apply to your home program?

 

[TexasRose]

oh, this is the post everyone is dreading, and i am not looking for specifics, and i fear i will be misunderstood....

my question is, how do we go about finding out about programs farther away than our home base? i'm not asking about CHOP, or whatever, I'm not asking for names. I just want a good teaching academic program with decent research support. who do i talk to about this? i tried talking to my dean, and she recommended i talk to someone who notoriously never gets back to students, and to my "mentor" whom i met on day 1 of med school when he stepped out of the OR for 30 seconds. (and what, i might ask, would a colorectal surgeon know about peds residencies anyway?) if i talk to the peds people at my school, do i run the risk of them thinking I'm not interested in my home program? (which I am, but i want to see options)

i have my research mentor, and I will ask her, but I don't want to base everything off one person's perceptions. any recommendations?

I think this is a good question, and very relevant. 🙂

PM'ing folks at the programs you think you might be interested in is a very good idea.

 

[andyh]

Just my 2 cents (since I'm going through this process as well)...

I think it is fair to ask faculty about places other than our home institution. The match is the match and we aren't guaranteed a position at our home institution.

While I'm excited at the prospect at staying at my home institution, I've told 2 faculty that I'm interested in seeing other programs, possibly closer to my family on the east coast. Both of them have been more than happy to tell me their thoughts.

I agree it is awkward to be talking about programs other than our own home institutions with faculty so here are some thoughts if you are still concerned:
1) Email colleagues in the Class of 2007. They have just gone through the process and can give you lots of good advice.

2) Find friends or friends of friends who are in peds. They are just as close to the process and can be of help. True it may be further out for them, but our Dean told us to have several levels of faculty & residents look at our school list to be sure we are broad and deep with our selection.

3) Ask your research mentor if they know anyone else they would recommend to talk with.

4) Like Old Bear Professor said, look at the internet sites. I've just started doing that and it looks like the programs put quite a bit online which is fantastic!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Honestly though, is this something to worry about? I'm kind of clueless about this kind of playing the game kind of stuff in general...but I don't know that I would have ever thought of it. It seems like anyone who would be worth asking would understand that you are likely to look for information and apply to other places, and would encourage you think about all your options. Or do people at your home program expect you to only want to apply to your home program?

I always advocate strongly for being up-front and honest in the process, but, of course, one should be cautious about what is said so as to not deceive anyone (memories are long) and not make false promises or guarantees. If you absolutely don't want to go to your home program, then given the wide range of opportunities in pediatrics, it is reasonable to tell people in your home program that you are likely to leave. Don't say "I'm sick of this crummy hospital", but rather, indicate a desire to live in different areas of the country, be closer to your home, gain a wide range of experiences, etc. The overwhelming majority of faculty will respond positively and help you identify the right place.

The problem can come when you are really unsure. That is, you want to be ranked highly by your home program, but may not rank it #1. In this case, you need to interview at multiple places while telling your home program that you are interested in them, but don't guarantee that you will rank them #1. You have an absolute right to take this position like any other applicant.

Again, be cautious in what you say. Don't make any promises to the home program, and don't try to hide to anyone that you are looking around. It's possible that at a few places, they may respond negatively to this and try to put some pressure on you. If that occurs, just continue with a neutral stance but indicate you will consider the home program strongly. Most folks will respond to this approach by trying to convince you of why you should stay home. A few may choose not to rank you highly.

This problem has been around forever. Even in my day I chose not to interview or rank my home program and caught some flack for it. But, it all worked out. In general, I think that except for those who must stay home for family reasons or have a strong connection to the home institution or town, everyone should interview around a bit. That way, if you stay home, you know that mom and dad were right for you.

 

[DoctorWannaBe]

oh, this is the post everyone is dreading, and i am not looking for specifics, and i fear i will be misunderstood....

my question is, how do we go about finding out about programs farther away than our home base? i'm not asking about CHOP, or whatever, I'm not asking for names. I just want a good teaching academic program with decent research support. who do i talk to about this? i tried talking to my dean, and she recommended i talk to someone who notoriously never gets back to students, and to my "mentor" whom i met on day 1 of med school when he stepped out of the OR for 30 seconds. (and what, i might ask, would a colorectal surgeon know about peds residencies anyway?) if i talk to the peds people at my school, do i run the risk of them thinking I'm not interested in my home program? (which I am, but i want to see options)

i have my research mentor, and I will ask her, but I don't want to base everything off one person's perceptions. any recommendations?

Try this website from AMSA. It has reviews of programs submitted by residents. http://www.amsa.org/resource/cardev/resresults.cfm

Also, as OBP said, scutwork.com has some reviews of programs, but they all seem to be very old.

Here's a nice thread from last year's applicants with their impressions of programs they visited. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=338010

 

[14022]

If your program would look down on you for inquiring about other programs, then in my opinion it isn't a place you would want to train at anyways. It is completely wrong for any medical student to be discouraged from considering other residency programs.

In pediatrics, being such a large and relatively less competitive field than other residency programs, you have the luxury to be able to find a great residency program that completely suits for personality and professional goals. It sucks that people applying into ortho and plastics and ENT, etc, may have to accept a program that they are not crazy about that may be their 15th choice just to be practice the field they enjoy.

Many children's hospitals will have a directory of doctors and where they trained. You may be able to find doctors who trained where you are interested (or at least in the geographical region) and may be able to give you information. Always keep in mind that especially among older pediatricians, many things may have changed since they trained (for the good or bad) so keep an open mind.

Good luck!

 

[ChildNeuro]

If your program would look down on you for inquiring about other programs, then in my opinion it isn't a place you would want to train at anyways. It is completely wrong for any medical student to be discouraged from considering other residency programs.

Good luck!

I agree wholehearted with this comment, I wouldn't want to train at some place that would look down on your for wanting to go to other programs, such places think that they are the best medical center in the country and their residency program is a gift from above to worthy medical students. I actually wouldn't want to be a resident at a place I did med school because it also looks more than a little inbred. I think if you want better training you would go to a different hospital for training, reason being is that if you were a medical student at a certain hospital, and then signed up for residency there, you might get the same preceptors and same view of medicine that your attendings have been preaching during med school. Whereas, if you train in different hospitals you see how people do things differently, one hospital might be good with acute care, another have an excellent continuity program. Do you really want your whole training to be at just a couple hospitals, i.e. maybe one hospital for peds clerkship and the same and maybe another hospital for residency? Even at top place like Boston's Childrens you have residents from other medical schools, and I'm sure alot of Harvard med students have the choice of Boston Childrens or CHOP or an excellent peds program elsewhere. Alot of med students dislike their med school so much that they very much dislike the idea of doing a residency affiliated with their med school and being around the attendings who kicked their booties as students. I wouldn't feel like a resident and more like a prisoner if I had to do residency at same place as med school.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

A couple of points related to the various posting on this thread:

First, the OP was concerned that his home program wouldn't rank him highly if they were thought to be interviewing at multiple places. Although in general, programs expect their applicants to interview at multiple places, they may be concerned that a medical student who knows the home program well is not serious about the home program if they look around. This isn't "looking down" on the applicant, but a program being concerned that the applicant is using them as a "safety" and no one wants that. This can happen even at fair and honest programs. It is up to the applicant to assure the program director that they are looking around because this is the right thing to do, but are considering the home program highly (if this is true).

Second, although there is certainly a chance that a medical student would want to do pediatrics despite a bad experience in their home medical school and program, I think that an interest in pediatrics is in part, often if not usually related to the way in which so many pediatric faculty commit themselves to the education of students and to promoting the field. Medical student education in pediatrics is not close to being as broad or as complete as residency training. Thus, a medical student may wish to stay at their home program because they LIKE and RESPECT the attendings there and wish to be trained by them in a more advanced way than was possible during medical school.

Inbrededness (is that a word?) is much more of a concern related to fellowship training and especially a concern related to becoming an attending. But, there are compelling academic as well as personal reasons for many people to stay and there should be no stigma associated with this. Nor, in pediatrics at least, is there in my experience.

 

[missourigirl]

I would agree with those posting that there is a wide variety of responses when people learn that you are "looking around." I personally have chosen a different place for medical school, residency, and fellowship and that has worked for me. I understand that everyone comes to looking for places of training differently. For me, each place so far has given me a great training and I feel it has been a benefit to my education by moving around.

Particularly if you are interested in programs in the middle of the country, feel free to personal message me and I can try to answer some of your questions.

 

[m1234d]

In case anyone else is looking for more info, FREIDA has some information, if you search programs, and click on them for more info, some have a lot of info about time, benefits, outpt time, etc... I looked at it for my current institution, it seemed pretty accurate, but that's an n=1, so, who knows.