POI = new faculty

[zzzzzzzzz1]

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What are people's opinions about working with brand-new faculty?
I'm wondering if it's a good idea to sign on with someone who is new to the university and has just gotten their PHD...are they going to be stable/reliable as a mentor?
I'm thinking I would rather go with a more experienced mentor, even if my interests didn't match up quite as well, because at least I would know they had some staying power. New faculty are under a lot of pressure from deans, colleagues, department chairs, lab partners, etc. I feel like the needs of grad students would be low on their list of concerns.
Plus, what would you do if your just-out-of-grad-school mentor decided to switch research interests, or give up on a project you had been working on for years? What if they quit after 2 or 3 years? Then you'd be really screwed....

 

[cara susanna]

I've found from my own undergrad experience that the new faculty tend to be the ones raring to go with research, but of course that varies.

 

[zzzzzzzzz1]

raring to go in which direction though?
if they're pressured to just research whatever and publish it, that doesn't serve me as a student. Consistency and quality are more important, no?
has anyone had a good experience with a mentor who was new?
anyone experienced the issues I've been thinking about?😕

 

[cara susanna]

I've found their research to be consistent and quality research in their area of interest, as developed in grad school.

 

[Psych1212]

I've found from my own undergrad experience that the new faculty tend to be the ones raring to go with research, but of course that varies.

I worked with a new faculty member while pursuing my masters, and I found the same to be true. In addition, quite a few of the other faculty members were looking to collaborate with this new faculty member, which made it easy for me to branch out a bit in terms of research and relate my interests to theirs. I had plenty of opportunities, and I ended up being very productive.

That said, it depends on the faculty member. I would try and find out everything that I could about them. If you already have an offer or are attending the program, I would consider expressing these concerns directly to the faculty member in question. They should understand the concern and be open to discussion, especially considering that they were a student no too long ago.

 

[GiantSteps]

1. Consider the depth of the department. If the new professor does leave, you certainly will be given the option of working with someone else at the school. If there are other people studying similiar things, that is a good sign. If the person is the only one studying his/her topic and no one else is studying anything at all related, then you might have a problem.

2. A number of professors have told me that when a professors leaves for a new place, he/she almost always has the option of taking a student or two along to the new place. The question then becomes: are you more connected to the current school or the professor?

 

[psychanon]

On the one hand, there are risks. There's less of a proven track record, and there's more of a risk that they'll leave to go elsewhere (either because they get a better offer elsewhere or because they don't get tenure). They may have fewer connections in the field. On the other hand, there are benefits: they may have more of an incentive to publish (to get tenure), and yes, this does benefit you as a student, because as a general rule, the more they publish, the more you publish. And I don't think that early faculty members are "pressured to just research whatever and publish it." They are establishing themselves in the field, and that means carving out a name for themselves within their given research area and aiming to publish in the top journals within their field to maximize visibility. High quality publications count much more toward tenure than low quality publications in lower ranked journals. Also, working with younger faculty can mean playing a significant role in the development and direction of the lab, which may be both exciting and instructive. And, it might be valuable to have a role model who is in the early stages of his/her career, as you will soon be navigating the same hurdles.

Having a more senior mentor has costs and benefits too. On the one hand, being more senior means more name recognition, and more networking opportunities. They may be more generous with first authorship because they don't have much need for it themselves anymore. On the other hand, some senior faculty are on the verge of retirement, and may not have very active research programs any more. They may be well past the prime of their careers and thus have old-fashioned ideas about research. They may not know as much about newer statistical techniques and methodologies.

My mentor is at the associate prof level, and I find that this is the best compromise. However, I think that it is perfectly possible to be very successful under a wide range of advisor seniority.

 

[zzzzzzzzz1]

psychanon you make some good points.
i am not, however, interested in a career in academic psychology, so the quantity of publications isn't as important to me.
Your comments have helped me feel better, but i still worry that, in principle, a less experienced faculty member will not make for a good mentor.
I don't think i'm making this up, people do sign up with a certain professor only to have them give up or move to a better offer? I see it can still work out ok, but i really wouldn't want to be put in that position.

 

[cardamom]

Mentors can move, but it can happen with experienced mentors as well (although probably less commonly). It seems like it would be reasonable during the interviewing process to ask if they have a sense of their plans and if that's a likely outcome, if you are concerned.

I think the bigger factor with finding a good mentor is probably personality/mentoring style match than experience level, but the former will be easier to determine if they already have students who can tell you what it's like to work with them. I found that information key in making my choice, because in some cases it gave me insight that I would have not have gotten just from my direct interations with my POI.

Your mentor's reputation and connections may well still affect things like internship and post-doc placements, so even if you are thinking of going a more clinical route, I would still consider a well-known/connected mentor to be a significant plus (though not necessarily something to override other factors).

 

[FranklinR]

psychanon you make some good points.
i am not, however, interested in a career in academic psychology, so the quantity of publications isn't as important to me.
Your comments have helped me feel better, but i still worry that, in principle, a less experienced faculty member will not make for a good mentor.
I don't think i'm making this up, people do sign up with a certain professor only to have them give up or move to a better offer? I see it can still work out ok, but i really wouldn't want to be put in that position.

Faculty leave, sure, and turnover is probably higher amongst the non-tenured folk than the tenured. But you really can't control it. And if they're really brand new, they're likely to last out your time at the school.

The downside I see for new faculty is that they don't know as many people in the industry (whether that industry is academics or practice) and thus may be less helpful when the job search comes at the end of the process. Of course, they'll have a few years to get to know people before you graduate, but it is something to think about.

 

[Ollie123]

in principle, a less experienced faculty member will not make for a good mentor.

I think this is just too much of an oversimplification. There are plenty of crusty dinosaurs in this field who haven't done anything useful in decades, and I can think of a huge number of young faculty members who would be greatly preferable to them. Yes, them leaving is a concern. Its probably more likely for young faculty, but you could work with someone who has been at the same school for 30 years with no plans to leave who gets an offer to chair a department across the country the year after you get there. Its less likely to happen so if you're extremely risk averse it may be the way to go, but realize its still a possibility.

All things being equal, I would probably go with the more senior faculty member. All things are never equal though. How senior a faculty member is should be taken into consideration, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of the list in terms of importance, at least for me. To each their own.