Poor grades, already graduated and working. How can I try again?

[drfink]

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Long story short, I messed up badly in college as I wasn't motivated and just wanted to coast, but I'd still like to work towards getting into a medical school. I majored in neuroscience and my overall GPA 2.967, but I also had multiple withdraws or poor grades in prerequisite classes such as 3 withdraws from Calc 1, and a C- then a C+ in Psych Stats, F in physics 2 because I skipped the final, etc.

I'm wondering what my options are to get a new start and try again. I'm working full time in non-healthcare related marketing, but I volunteer as an EMT about 40 hours/month and have been involved with EMS since I was 16. I'm not sure if my college community service, semester of psycholinguistics research, or shadowing experiences are still valid as I graduated May 2014. I imagine I'll need to retake most if not all of my prereqs and retake ones I didn't take at all like biochem.

Most, but not all of the postbac programs around me (NY metro area) don't even consider people with an undergrad GPA of <3.0. Ideally, I'd like to stay within a 3-4 hours max of NYC.

I know I'm not the ideal candidate by any means, and any future success is contingent on my own drive to succeed, but I'd like to know what's out there and get a better idea of the chances I'd have should I complete these options.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[shouldigomd]

I wrote a post to someone else yesterday that you can lookup but I will give you the short version. I was in your shoes with F's and multiple repeats / etc. The difference however was I had not yet graduated so I was still able to take classes. Bottom line is you have to prove that you can handle med school. That is really what admissions looks for. You can only really do that in 1 way ... to perform well in core science classes and the MCAT. All the EMT, research, etc will help but it isn't what will make your break you in my opinion so I would not focus on that.

So you can go back to undergrad or post bacc and repeat all those sciences and do well. Or you can try and get into masters of biomed science programs which are the same thing essentially but most grant admit to their medical program upon completion with certain grades. Create a solid schedule of core sciences (none of the 1 hard class with 4 easy ones bs) for 1.5-2 years and you will have a chance. Avoid getting into an easy masters program or one that won't help you at all. So many people waste their time (waste meaning in terms of helping them get into med school) getting masters in stuff like public health, molecular bio, etc that doesn't really help them get into med school. While I am sure you learn a lot in those programs, they do not replicated what the first two years of medical school is like.

I personally retook all the sciences I did not have a B or better in along with high level science courses I had not yet taken at my university (anatomy, human physiology, molecular biology, histology, embryology, etc). I did 4 semesters worth (3 terms and a summer) and got a 3.8 GPA in those 1.5 years.

Also I would take 3 months off and do whatever it takes to get a 30+ MCAT score in the bag. It is very doable with hard work.

 

[Goro]

Post-bac programs and SMPs are a dime-a-dozen. You can do a post-bac DIY.

Your fastest route to being a doctor is to retake all F/D/C science coursework and aim for DO schools. Grade replacement does wonders for the old GPA.

If you're boning for the mD degree, then acing an SMP/post-bac is required, along with acing MCAT.

You'll need the requisite clinical and non-clinical volunteering, and shadowing too. Just remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[drfink]

Post-bac programs and SMPs are a dime-a-dozen. You can do a post-bac DIY.

Your fastest route to being a doctor is to retake all F/D/C science coursework and aim for DO schools. Grade replacement does wonders for the old GPA.

If you're boning for the mD degree, then acing an SMP/post-bac is required, along with acing MCAT.

You'll need the requisite clinical and non-clinical volunteering, and shadowing too. Just remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Would I need to retake courses at a 4 year school or would community college be sufficient for MD and\or DO?

 

[Goro]

It's OK to retake courses at a CC to save $. You're a non-trad now, so you get cut some slack. Keep in mind that retaking courses for MD doesn't replace grades, only averages the two. Hence my recommendation for grade replacement for DO schools.

If you can take post-bas classes to get your GPA > 3.0, then those more selective SMPs will be the place to go for, if you desire the MD degree.

Would I need to retake courses at a 4 year school or would community college be sufficient for MD and\or DO?

 

[GreenDuck12]

It's OK to retake courses at a CC to save $. You're a non-trad now, so you get cut some slack. Keep in mind that retaking courses for MD doesn't replace grades, only averages the two. Hence my recommendation for grade replacement for DO schools.

Goro, what's the threshold for determining if post-pac pre-req classes are acceptable for medical school if you have already graduated and been working for some amount of time? A few programs explicitly state a preference for "four year university level classes" while others don't are mum. Personally, I'm a bit confused by that section of the MSAR and how to parse it.

 

[Goro]

The preference you're referring to is, I believe for when one is a UG student. Those med schools want to see that you're not trying to avoid your UG school's weeding courses. There's a difference criteria for non-trads because you're not in school full time anymore.

 

[Amine55]

I wrote a post to someone else yesterday that you can lookup but I will give you the short version. I was in your shoes with F's and multiple repeats / etc. The difference however was I had not yet graduated so I was still able to take classes. Bottom line is you have to prove that you can handle med school. That is really what admissions looks for. You can only really do that in 1 way ... to perform well in core science classes and the MCAT. All the EMT, research, etc will help but it isn't what will make your break you in my opinion so I would not focus on that.

So you can go back to undergrad or post bacc and repeat all those sciences and do well. Or you can try and get into masters of biomed science programs which are the same thing essentially but most grant admit to their medical program upon completion with certain grades. Create a solid schedule of core sciences (none of the 1 hard class with 4 easy ones bs) for 1.5-2 years and you will have a chance. Avoid getting into an easy masters program or one that won't help you at all. So many people waste their time (waste meaning in terms of helping them get into med school) getting masters in stuff like public health, molecular bio, etc that doesn't really help them get into med school. While I am sure you learn a lot in those programs, they do not replicated what the first two years of medical school is like.

I personally retook all the sciences I did not have a B or better in along with high level science courses I had not yet taken at my university (anatomy, human physiology, molecular biology, histology, embryology, etc). I did 4 semesters worth (3 terms and a summer) and got a 3.8 GPA in those 1.5 years.

Also I would take 3 months off and do whatever it takes to get a 30+ MCAT score in the bag. It is very doable with hard work.

Hi there!
It sounds like I'm in a similar position as you once were- I have 2 F's on my transcript and subpar grades overall. I was lackadaisical in my school work for my first two years of college. When I finally got a reality check, I did decently, receiving A's in both organic chemistry 1 and 2 and biochemistry 1 and 2. Additionally, I made studying for the MCAT my full time job and scored a 37. Science is where I have always excelled, I just took way too easily to the finally being free from my parents and partying lifestyle when I initially entered college. Even with my triumph in science classes my junior and senior years, it was too hard to come back from academic probation freshman year. My overall GPA is a 2.6 at this point, and I'm asking y0u honestly if I should just give up- I had this romanticized idea that my MCAT score would cure my mediocre grades but now I'm second guessing this notion. I'm also worried that A's in classes like organic chemistry would only go to show how capable I was of earning A's in general chemistry, but the fact that I didn't probably highlights my lack of motivation and carelessness which I'm sure is awful on any application. Would you suggest trying for a post-bac program or is that even out of the question given my GPA?
Thank you for your consideration. 🙂

 

[MovingForward]

Hi there!
It sounds like I'm in a similar position as you once were- I have 2 F's on my transcript and subpar grades overall. I was lackadaisical in my school work for my first two years of college. When I finally got a reality check, I did decently, receiving A's in both organic chemistry 1 and 2 and biochemistry 1 and 2. Additionally, I made studying for the MCAT my full time job and scored a 37. Science is where I have always excelled, I just took way too easily to the finally being free from my parents and partying lifestyle when I initially entered college. Even with my triumph in science classes my junior and senior years, it was too hard to come back from academic probation freshman year. My overall GPA is a 2.6 at this point, and I'm asking y0u honestly if I should just give up- I had this romanticized idea that my MCAT score would cure my mediocre grades but now I'm second guessing this notion. I'm also worried that A's in classes like organic chemistry would only go to show how capable I was of earning A's in general chemistry, but the fact that I didn't probably highlights my lack of motivation and carelessness which I'm sure is awful on any application. Would you suggest trying for a post-bac program or is that even out of the question given my GPA?
Thank you for your consideration. 🙂

I wouldn't give up. That upward trend (which it sounds you have) will do you justice. Congrats on that MCAT score too! I am in a similar position with you as well and I went and saw one of the medical advisors at my institution's medical school and she simply suggested for me to shut out undergrad, which is what I am doing at the moment now (non-science major so it helps), and take 20+ credits of upper division classes but maintain 3.7+ for instance, take histology, physiology, genetics, general chemistry 2 (analytical), statistics if you haven't, endocrinology, virology, anything upper divisional. I have read really successful stories on people completing post bac. She also gave me examples of people who had these amazing grades like near 4.0's and their MCAT scores were around were around 25-29 but took it twice and decreased, that doesn't look right especially because they take the more recent one. However, some schools are different. I personally think you are on the right track, upward trend and an excellent MCAT scores really can outshine your weaknesses (because many schools love an upward trend!!) and a post bac will definitely help you because 1, it will show you're really motivated 2, it allows for recovery you can say, and 3, it's another option for you to progress and enhance your application (get involved more, become friends with your professors, etc). If you really want this, you would do it and NOT give up! I have never felt so less stressed out and more motivated and just ready to take this on and hopefully, you will too. I recommend to meet with a pre-med advisor (a nice one--some are so discouraging) and tell her your plan and maybe she can assist you on making your post bac successful. Don't feel rushed to finish it, as in don't find the need to finish those 20 credits in a year (some schools even suggest 16!). Take your time and just look at all the things you wanted to do in undergrad but never had the chance to do. It is amazing what you can accomplish in a year or so. Most importantly, stay positive and be determined by yourself to accomplish this. Don't overthink what medical schools want but what you want, what makes you comfortable to be like hey, I am proud of this application and whatever happens, happens! Sorry for my overly motivated post but I understand the struggle of wanting to give up or keep going.