possible to work 50-60 hours/week as an attending gen surg?

[amarula]

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My husband is a general surgery intern. I fear that I will never see him as an attending and once we have children they also will have and absentee father. He promises that he is totally committed to creating a career where he will be able to put his children to bed at night and wake them up in the morning while spending weekends with the fam as well. Is this possible?

 

[Winged Scapula]

It is possible depending on his choice of specialty (there are some surgical practices, especially those with a high load of elective cases which are better on hours) and practice environment. This might mean he makes less, especially if he takes less call, but there are some things more important than money.

This also prompts the question(s): didn't you two talk about this before he chose a surgical career and what ate your plans if he is unable (or unwilling) to work 50-60 hrs per week?

 

[amarula]

We did talk, but we got engaged after he applied for Gen Surg. I love him and I thought that I could handle a life where I didn't see him much so that he would be happy with his career. But he is miserable as an intern and he hates that he doesn't have time for me (as do I). So I'm realizing that this 100+ hour work week will make neither of us happy. He is considering switching into another field but wants to complete his intern year, at least. We'll see what happens but I know that he will be just as unhappy as me if he doesn't get time to spend with his family. What kind of life is that? ((if you have a family that you enjoy spending time with))

 

[Winged Scapula]

We did talk, but we got engaged after he applied for Gen Surg. I love him and I thought that I could handle a life where I didn't see him much so that he would be happy with his career. But he is miserable as an intern and he hates that he doesn't have time for me (as do I). So I'm realizing that this 100+ hour work week will make neither of us happy. He is considering switching into another field but wants to complete his intern year, at least. We'll see what happens but I know that he will be just as unhappy as me if he doesn't get time to spend with his family. What kind of life is that? ((if you have a family that you enjoy spending time with))

I think it reasonable for him to finish his intern year, if only because almost all interns, regardless of specialty, are unhappy. Working 100+ hour weeks are not the sole province of a surgical intern - I know many medical residents who worked the same number of hours. Its more a function of the program and their desire to keep under hours than it is the specialty (save for some notoriously lighter on hours residencies like Derm or EM).

 

[jbish]

I shadowed a general surgeon at MGH who works 50 hours a week. This is considered "part-time" and is compensated as such- half the salary, half the benefits, etc. 80 hrs is "full time." This was in 2001 or 2002...undergrad is starting to blur together.

 

[SocialistMD]

I saw the self-reported hours of each faculty member for our site visit and the vast majority reported ~50 hours. There were some who reported around 35-40 and a few who worked over 80.

 

[DrDawg]

According to Isersons(?) "Getting into a residency" General surgeons average 60-70 hours per week. Interestingly Internist were in the same ball park. Junior staff, seem to work more and do more call. Having worked one on one with an established attending his hours were probably 50-60 per week.
Keep your headup

 

[shag]

Surgery internship and residency are difficult, and it is necessary to make sacrifices to make it work.

That said, I am unwilling to sacrifice my family for any job or career. It takes a bit of work and creativity to make it work, but it is do-able. For example, I have been known to leave the hospital, put my kids to bed, spend a few minutes with my wife, and then return to the hospital to finish low priority scut (dictations, prewriting notes, etc).

There are, of course, times when things are crazy and you have less time for family (patients get sick, late cases are present, q2 call, etc.). During these periods, you just have to roll with the punches.

It is possible to survive a surgery residency and be a "family guy", as long as you understand that there will be tough periods along the way.

 

[Pilot Doc]

My husband is a general surgery intern. I fear that I will never see him as an attending and once we have children they also will have and absentee father. He promises that he is totally committed to creating a career where he will be able to put his children to bed at night and wake them up in the morning while spending weekends with the fam as well. Is this possible?

The life of a general surgery intern and the life of a practicing general surgeon, particularly a private practice surgeon, have absolutely nothing in common. In that statement, I make no value judements about either job, but they are simply nothing alike.

You can have a manageable life as a surgery attending, no doubt. It will require either 1) some special skill that allows you to dictate how and where you see patients, 2) living somewhere that has many more patients than surgeons (typically somewhere rural), 3) being willing to do operations that most other surgeons don't like (breast, wound care, etc.) or 4) making less money. (e.g. Anybody will hire a part time surgeon for $75K/year. Not that working part time will require that substantial a pay cut.)

You and/or your surgeon should seek out some private practice surgeons in a geographic locations near where you eventually want to live. In med school, I encountered a number of small town general surgeons who worked 4 days/week (3 OR, 1 clinic), took one night of call/week and one weekend/month. It's not a bad life.

One caution - surgery tends to start early and occasionally (and unpredictable) run late. If you are particularly hung up on waketime and bedtime every single day, that's a problem.

Gotta run. More later.

 

[Misterioso]

geez...can we give it a rest already with these "Can i be a surgeon but work banker's hours so i can have time go to the mall with my wife and hold her purse and also have time to watch junior's little league game and do other trivial, irrelevent activities of a life wasted" threads.

 

[supercut]

geez...can we give it a rest already with these "Can i be a surgeon but work banker's hours so i can have time go to the mall with my wife and hold her purse and also have time to watch junior's little league game and do other trivial, irrelevent activities of a life wasted" threads.

You, my friend, are part of the problem. Aside from the sexist remark, most parents (male and female) don't view spending time with their children a "trivial, irrelevant activity of a life wasted". There is nothing wrong with anybody wanting to have a great quality of life outside of work. And no real reason why being a surgeon requires working inhumane hours (execept for the fact that "we've always done it that way").

If you find fulfilment in life by doing nothing but work, fine go for it. But don't get involved in any significant relationships, don't get married and don't have kids. And don't be critical of others who want to enjoy both work and life. After all, the point of work is to earn money...first to pay for basic needs and then to enjoy life!

 

[toxic-megacolon]

One caution - surgery tends to start early ...If you are particularly hung up on waketime ... that's a problem.

Not necessarily, I know a surgeon who always schedules his cases to start at between 9am and 10am. Other surgeons love it because they can do a small case at the buttcrack of dawn before their clinic, and he just follows their case in the room. Although most surgeons love early mornings, its not a job requirement for an attending.

 

[Leukocyte]

My husband is a general surgery intern. I fear that I will never see him as an attending and once we have children they also will have and absentee father. He promises that he is totally committed to creating a career where he will be able to put his children to bed at night and wake them up in the morning while spending weekends with the fam as well. Is this possible?

I am a "Neub" (a pre-intern) but IMHO, the answer to your question is, IT DEPENDS...It depends on many factors, both voluntary and involuntary. But the most important involuntary factor, IMHO, is the future politics of our Health Care economy, and the issue of decreasing re-embursments.....Can one afford to limit his work hours if he is only being "minimaly compensated" for each case he does?

 

[Leukocyte]

Although most surgeons love early mornings, its not a job requirement for an attending.

True...but I think it is also very important to be flexable. After all, attendings are SHARING the OR. Some attending are fast, and some are super-slow. We had a breast surgeon who used to take 5 hours for a mastectomy!!!!! We also have to deal with unexpected complications/delays that our "roomates" might experience.

I think there is no such think as a "fixed schedule" in surgery. Flexability, and the abililty to tolerate delays and complications, I think, are a job requirement for an attending.

Just my humble 2 cents.