post-bac for MD/PhD

[healthyhabits]

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Hello everyone, I'm trying to decide which post-bac I should go to... there just seem to be so many! I'm:
- a 26-yr old international student
- undergrad (US) GPA: 3.45
- art major
- no science classes taken, have no research experience
- goal: MD/PhD
Of course I would like to attend the cheapest school possible, but maybe I should be willing to pay more & go to a better program to increase my chances... 😕
In general, should I be looking at research oriented schools offering PhDs if I want to gain research experience?
Or maybe should I just attend a post-bac at a school that has MD/PhD that I want to apply to, to get my foot in the door?
Thanks 🙂

 

[K31]

First off, why MD/PhD vs MD or PhD alone? What is your understanding of what a physician-scientist does, and what has brought you to that decision to pursue that path relatively late in life?

As a nontrad international student starting from scratch with no science background or research experience (and I'm assuming no medical experience either), you are going to have a difficult time getting your foot in the door to start building up your resume to apply for MD/PhD.

I believe most post-bac programs with a goal of getting their students into medical school require them to have already taken the medical school prerequisite science courses (2 semesters each of biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics). Most MD/PhD applicants have taken significantly more science courses than the basic medical school prerequisites--usually a number of upper level, lab-intensive biology courses.

One of the most important criteria for admission to an MD/PhD program is research experience--most successful applicants have at least a year, and usually more, of lab-based research. Besides being reflective of how successful you are likely to be in the PhD portion of the program, having letters of recommendation from faculty who do significant research and are familiar with your work in the lab are critical for your application.

The first thing to do in your situation would be to at least take some science courses--community college courses are sub-optimal, but better than nothing. I'm not sure how I'd go about trying to gain research experience in your situation. You won't get a job as a lab tech without any lab experience. You could try contacting research faculty at a nearby university and see if they are willing to take you on a volunteer basis. Another way would be to try to get into a research-intensive masters program, but once again that is going to be difficult with no science background whatsoever.

 

[Guero]

I echo everything in K31's post. However, if you're dedicated and find that you both enjoy and excel at the basic sciences after taking a few classes, it can be done. I decided to pursue the MD/PhD at 25, a year after graduating with a double major in psychology and sociology. While not the life sciences, these majors provided me with excellent research skills and experiences that gave me that "foot-in-the-door" edge. But I didn't enter the world of bench science until touring a molecular neurotrafficking lab as part of a neurobiology field-trip while completing medical prerequisites. I introduced myself to the PI via the professor, asked to volunteer, and ended up contributing to a huge project in a meaningful way.

So, to recap, it can be done; but take it slowly, see how you like it and how well you perform. You can always pursue a traditional MD program and veer away from research or vice-versa. I wish you the best of luck. Nontraditional MD/PhD students are few and far between due to the protracted training. But when we pop-up, we're hella dedicated. 😀

 

[delirium81]

Everything K31 said except for this:

I believe most post-bac programs with a goal of getting their students into medical school require them to have already taken the medical school prerequisite science courses (2 semesters each of biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics).

My understanding was that the point of post-bac programs was so that non-science major graduates could take the pre-med requirements. At least, that's the way that the post-bac program at my former undergrad worked. So really, the only courses the post-bac students took were the pre-med requirements. Maybe that program was an anomale amongst post-bac programs? I don't know, but either way, programs that fit your needs clearly exist.

Also, it would help us help you if you explained your motivation for pursuing an MD/PhD. Like K31 asked, why MD/PhD and not MD or PhD alone? Why are you interested in research? Why didn't you start pursuing these interests earlier?

ETA: Also, I TA'd organic chemistry lab during undergrad and worked closely with a lot of students in the post-bac program. I can only speak to this one program, but it was very intense. It condensed all of the pre-med science requirements as well as their time-consuming labs into a single school year plus one summer semester. They were stressed. None of them would have had time for a meaningful research experience. Maybe there are other programs that are less intense or maybe you can take the courses individually on your own time, outside of a specific post-bac program. Either way you'll need a lot of time to make yourself a viable candidate for MD/PhD. I'd wager 2 years at an absolute minimum.

 

[Guero]

. . .My understanding was that the point of post-bac programs was so that non-science major graduates could take the pre-med requirements. At least, that's the way that the post-bac program at my former undergrad worked. So really, the only courses the post-bac students took were the pre-med requirements. Maybe that program was an anomale amongst post-bac programs? . . .

Agreed. I did a cursory read and missed that part—my bad. There were no programs offered like this in my area. However, they're quite effective and sometimes have agreements with medical schools (e.g., guaranteed spot in an associated medical school's class if you maintain a certain GPA and/or achieve a certain MCAT score upon completion). Drexel University is one such program.

Cheers.

 

[delirium81]

...they're quite effective and sometimes have agreements with medical schools (e.g., guaranteed spot in an associated medical school's class if you maintain a certain GPA and/or achieve a certain MCAT score upon completion). Drexel University is one such program.

Yeah, the program that I'm familiar with was similar. They had agreements with multiple medical schools for conditional acceptance of post-bacs. It's worth noting that these programs are seriously geared towards getting students accepted into MD programs, not MD/PhD programs. I think it would probably be worth running some numbers and seeing if it would even be worth it to attend a program like that. It might be more economical, and save you time, to take courses individually while you do research full time. IMO, most of your time should be spent doing research with some physician shadowing on the side to see if MD/PhD is really something you want to do. You don't want to waste an entire year plus a lot of money on a post-bac program only to find out that you're really not interested in medicine.

 

[Guero]

. . . IMO, most of your time should be spent doing research with some physician shadowing on the side to see if MD/PhD is really something you want to do. You don't want to waste an entire year plus a lot of money on a post-bac program only to find out that you're really not interested in medicine.

Well-put.

 

[Neuronix]

It is going to take several years and be extremely difficult for you to obtain acceptance as an international with a fairly low (for an international) GPA, non-science major with no science experience whatsoever. It's not impossible, but you're in for a 2+ year ride just to prepare for MD/PhD and even then you may not get in.

You will need extensive science coursework (with all As), 2+ years of research, and a very high MCAT score to have a shot. I hope you did undergrad in the US.

 

[K31]

My understanding was that the point of post-bac programs was so that non-science major graduates could take the pre-med requirements. At least, that's the way that the post-bac program at my former undergrad worked. So really, the only courses the post-bac students took were the pre-med requirements. Maybe that program was an anomale amongst post-bac programs? I don't know, but either way, programs that fit your needs clearly exist.

it is quite possible I was incorrect on this point--it has been known to happen on rare occasions. 😉

I don't have any direct experience with postbox programs, but my impression from perusing some of their websites was that they require the typical med school prereqs before matriculation--I imagine it varies by school.